Shutter Closing in Manual Mode at DVinfo.net

Jim Snow · July 13th, 2009, 11:40 AM

Is there a way to prevent an FX1 from closing the shutter when shooting in manual? When I get too close to f11, I'm always concerned that if I overshoot the aperture adjustment the shutter will close and wreck a shot.

Alec Moreno · July 13th, 2009, 11:48 AM

None that I know of, but that would be a great feature. I can't think of a situation where I would ever want to roll the iris completely shut, as it currently does.

Alec Moreno
http://www.1Day1ShotProductions.com

Boyd Ostroff · July 13th, 2009, 11:55 AM

If you are shooting in full manual mode (Auto/Man switch in the center position) then the shutter speed should not change unless you do it. The shutter speed should be displayed in a gray box at the bottom of the screen. Turning the thumbwheel on the back of the camera will change it.

The general rule is, if a parameter is showing on your screen then it is in manual mode and should only change when you physically move a control.

Adam Gold · July 13th, 2009, 12:16 PM

Boyd is, of course and as usual, completely correct, but Jim's question isn't really clear as he seems to be confusing shutter and iris. Shutter and iris are two completely different things, but neither should change unless you deliberately change them yourself by turning the appropriate wheels when you're in manual mode. So I'm not sure what the problem is.

The FX1 doesn't actually have a physical bladed shutter like a film cam -- it's all virtual and electronic and can't really "close." And the iris shouldn't close unless you crank it closed using the exposure wheel at the front. I can't see this happening unless you're riding the wheel during the shot and you physically overshoot where you need to be. But ideally you wouldn't be at the narrow end anyhow because you want to avoid the CA that would be introduced at narrow f-values. So you should be shooting near f4 or 5.6 at the most all the time, where the risk of manually overshooting would be minimal. And it also seems to me that you'd set the iris before you begin rolling most of the time.

In Auto mode, you can set the maximum f-value the cam will stop down to, but this doesn't work in manual iris mode.

I suppose someone might want to close the iris completely if they wanted to do an in-cam fade to black. I wouldn't do that either, but I guess some might.

But I'm probably misunderstanding the issue.

Boyd Ostroff · July 13th, 2009, 01:35 PM

Now that I re-read the original post Adam, I think you are right. I thought the OP was concerned that the auto-shutter would kick in to compensate for the smaller iris opening.

I also agree that you just don't want to ever go as far as f11. You should use the ND filter if conditions are that bright.

Jim Snow · July 13th, 2009, 03:37 PM

Sorry everyone, I mistyped, I meant iris, not shutter. But you have answered my question; that is, there is no way to prevent the shutter from closing if the aperture is overshot.

Question for Adam - what does your abbreviation "CA" mean?

Never mind, I found it "Chromatic Aberration"

Thanks everyone

Adam Gold · July 13th, 2009, 05:31 PM

And of course I mistyped as well... I meant diffraction, not CA, which as another thread points out, are different things....

Boyd Ostroff · July 13th, 2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Snow

Sorry everyone, I mistyped, I meant iris, not shutter. But you have answered my question; that is, there is no way to prevent the shutter from closing if the aperture is overshot.

Well then I think you have mistyped again.... or else I'm confused. Do you mean "there is no way to prevent the iris from closing if the aperture is overshot"?

The real point to consider is that you should never shoot with an aperture as small as f11 or your image quality will suffer. If you can't get correct exposure around f5.6 you should use the internal ND filter. Then you won't have to worry about overshooting the mark either.

Asvaldur Kristjansson · July 16th, 2009, 05:34 PM

f4 or 5.6 is the ideal setting. When in full manual mode I set the shutter to 50, gain at 0dB and play with the iris. Use the ND filters in bright light. If you are at f11 and also using ND2 then the only way is to use higher shutter settings or add additional ND filters (using matte box)

Tom Hardwick · July 17th, 2009, 12:49 PM

The FX1 differs from its predecessor the VX2100 in that the VX would (in the auto exposure mode) film at very small apertures indeed - down to f/45 if you ignored the ND's silent scream. The results were correctly-exposed ghastlyness.

The FX1 has diaphragm blades that only stop down as far as f/11, in the auto as well as the manual mode. If you keep twiddling that knurled aluminium iris control wheel in the manual mode, an actual mechanical shutter - fitted just in front of the iris - closes to stop more light getting to the chips.

So Jim's original question, 'Is there a way to prevent an FX1 from closing the shutter when shooting in manual?' has to be answered with a no.

tom.

July 13th, 2009, 11:40 AM	#1
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	Shutter Closing in Manual Mode Is there a way to prevent an FX1 from closing the shutter when shooting in manual? When I get too close to f11, I'm always concerned that if I overshoot the aperture adjustment the shutter will close and wreck a shot.

July 13th, 2009, 11:48 AM	#2
Alec Moreno Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Glendora, CA Posts: 184	None that I know of, but that would be a great feature. I can't think of a situation where I would ever want to roll the iris completely shut, as it currently does. Alec Moreno http://www.1Day1ShotProductions.com

July 13th, 2009, 11:55 AM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	If you are shooting in full manual mode (Auto/Man switch in the center position) then the shutter speed should not change unless you do it. The shutter speed should be displayed in a gray box at the bottom of the screen. Turning the thumbwheel on the back of the camera will change it. The general rule is, if a parameter is showing on your screen then it is in manual mode and should only change when you physically move a control.

July 13th, 2009, 12:16 PM	#4
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Boyd is, of course and as usual, completely correct, but Jim's question isn't really clear as he seems to be confusing shutter and iris. Shutter and iris are two completely different things, but neither should change unless you deliberately change them yourself by turning the appropriate wheels when you're in manual mode. So I'm not sure what the problem is. The FX1 doesn't actually have a physical bladed shutter like a film cam -- it's all virtual and electronic and can't really "close." And the iris shouldn't close unless you crank it closed using the exposure wheel at the front. I can't see this happening unless you're riding the wheel during the shot and you physically overshoot where you need to be. But ideally you wouldn't be at the narrow end anyhow because you want to avoid the CA that would be introduced at narrow f-values. So you should be shooting near f4 or 5.6 at the most all the time, where the risk of manually overshooting would be minimal. And it also seems to me that you'd set the iris before you begin rolling most of the time. In Auto mode, you can set the maximum f-value the cam will stop down to, but this doesn't work in manual iris mode. I suppose someone might want to close the iris completely if they wanted to do an in-cam fade to black. I wouldn't do that either, but I guess some might. But I'm probably misunderstanding the issue.

July 13th, 2009, 01:35 PM	#5
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Now that I re-read the original post Adam, I think you are right. I thought the OP was concerned that the auto-shutter would kick in to compensate for the smaller iris opening. I also agree that you just don't want to ever go as far as f11. You should use the ND filter if conditions are that bright.

July 13th, 2009, 03:37 PM	#6
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	Sorry everyone, I mistyped, I meant iris, not shutter. But you have answered my question; that is, there is no way to prevent the shutter from closing if the aperture is overshot. Question for Adam - what does your abbreviation "CA" mean? Never mind, I found it "Chromatic Aberration" Thanks everyone

July 13th, 2009, 05:31 PM	#7
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	And of course I mistyped as well... I meant diffraction, not CA, which as another thread points out, are different things....

July 16th, 2009, 05:34 PM	#9
Asvaldur Kristjansson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Reykjavik, Iceland Posts: 95	f4 or 5.6 is the ideal setting. When in full manual mode I set the shutter to 50, gain at 0dB and play with the iris. Use the ND filters in bright light. If you are at f11 and also using ND2 then the only way is to use higher shutter settings or add additional ND filters (using matte box)

July 17th, 2009, 12:49 PM	#10
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	The FX1 differs from its predecessor the VX2100 in that the VX would (in the auto exposure mode) film at very small apertures indeed - down to f/45 if you ignored the ND's silent scream. The results were correctly-exposed ghastlyness. The FX1 has diaphragm blades that only stop down as far as f/11, in the auto as well as the manual mode. If you keep twiddling that knurled aluminium iris control wheel in the manual mode, an actual mechanical shutter - fitted just in front of the iris - closes to stop more light getting to the chips. So Jim's original question, 'Is there a way to prevent an FX1 from closing the shutter when shooting in manual?' has to be answered with a no. tom.