Sony HDV footage online

Daniel von Euw · October 7th, 2004, 02:50 AM

I have seen the pal-model.

And the problems are great fast moving objekts and pans in normal speed. In both case the picture quality went down - there are plenty pixel shown and sometimes some strange color aberrations.

So on the one hand we have a camera with a great picture quality on still scenes, but on the other hand very poor picture quality by fast movements und normal pans.

I truely sure that professionals will dont accept such a great difference in picture quality and also not such an poor quality by motion and pans. And because there is no HDV camera without that problems, i came to the opinion that HDV is not ready for professional use.

Sorry for my bad english - hope its a little bit clearer what i meant.

regards
Daniel

Carlos E. Martinez · October 7th, 2004, 10:32 AM

It reads quite clear.

What I can't conceive, if it may be possible, is how a company like Sony will release a supposedly high-definition equipment that can not pan with the same quality as it does static shots.

Perhaps the problem you saw was due to the monitor or output interconnection, and not an actual HD output.

Will try to check on that with some people I know that will be beta testers.

Carlos

Eric Bilodeau · October 7th, 2004, 10:52 AM

Once again, I believe that the problem is both the MPEG compression and (most importantly) the 4:2:0 scheme, the HD10 does ok because it is progressive but an interlaced signal, in MPEG, at such a high definition and a low bitrate in 4:2:0, one field will be completely off because of the chroma. The other problem is the long GOP, the longer, the more artefacting is likely to occur. If the 50i version has problems, imagine a 60i at the same bitrate...

Of course the compressors will eventually become better but for the moment, 1080i HDV will have problems. The compression on DVHS (I saw 1080/60i at 25 Mb/s) looks good but let's not forget that they are professionnaly encoded and (much more importantly) they are from 24p film sources, thus using a pulldown method and using less bandwidth. Also film makers use less drastic motions than video makers because of the frame rate so these problems are less likely to appear in these situations.

Michael Pappas · October 7th, 2004, 10:58 AM

Simple answer..... Sony wouldn't release a new system that did have those problems. HD is so less forgiving when it comes to playback compared to SD video. SD masks artifacts and other issues due to it's already low res and softer video. HD and it's monitors are more exact and don't hide artifacts. Sony would be shooting their own foot if their Flagship HDV camera's ( FX1&PD190 ) did have these issues. This post about problems during pans are the same hogwash that was posted about Mini DV ( VX1000 ) back in 1995-96. People would say they couldn't stop seeing the artifacts etc. BS then, most likely BS today........

""""What I can't conceive, if it may be possible, is how a company like Sony will release a supposedly high-definition equipment that can not pan with the same quality as it does static shots."""""

Eric Bilodeau · October 7th, 2004, 11:01 AM

You are right, it does not look like Sony to do that :)

Heath McKnight · October 7th, 2004, 01:52 PM

I would say they aren't problems with the camera, but with HDV. Eric is right about that.

Don't forget, of course, that Sony's HUGE success with the high-end HD line plays into how they'll market HDV.

Lastly, HDV isn't HDCam.

heath

October 7th, 2004, 10:52 AM	#63
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	Once again, I believe that the problem is both the MPEG compression and (most importantly) the 4:2:0 scheme, the HD10 does ok because it is progressive but an interlaced signal, in MPEG, at such a high definition and a low bitrate in 4:2:0, one field will be completely off because of the chroma. The other problem is the long GOP, the longer, the more artefacting is likely to occur. If the 50i version has problems, imagine a 60i at the same bitrate... Of course the compressors will eventually become better but for the moment, 1080i HDV will have problems. The compression on DVHS (I saw 1080/60i at 25 Mb/s) looks good but let's not forget that they are professionnaly encoded and (much more importantly) they are from 24p film sources, thus using a pulldown method and using less bandwidth. Also film makers use less drastic motions than video makers because of the frame rate so these problems are less likely to appear in these situations. __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

October 7th, 2004, 11:01 AM	#65
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	You are right, it does not look like Sony to do that :) __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

October 7th, 2004, 01:52 PM	#66
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I would say they aren't problems with the camera, but with HDV. Eric is right about that. Don't forget, of course, that Sony's HUGE success with the high-end HD line plays into how they'll market HDV. Lastly, HDV isn't HDCam. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

October 7th, 2004, 02:50 AM	#61
Daniel von Euw Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Köln, NRW, Germany Posts: 70	I have seen the pal-model. And the problems are great fast moving objekts and pans in normal speed. In both case the picture quality went down - there are plenty pixel shown and sometimes some strange color aberrations. So on the one hand we have a camera with a great picture quality on still scenes, but on the other hand very poor picture quality by fast movements und normal pans. I truely sure that professionals will dont accept such a great difference in picture quality and also not such an poor quality by motion and pans. And because there is no HDV camera without that problems, i came to the opinion that HDV is not ready for professional use. Sorry for my bad english - hope its a little bit clearer what i meant. regards Daniel

October 7th, 2004, 10:32 AM	#62
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	It reads quite clear. What I can't conceive, if it may be possible, is how a company like Sony will release a supposedly high-definition equipment that can not pan with the same quality as it does static shots. Perhaps the problem you saw was due to the monitor or output interconnection, and not an actual HD output. Will try to check on that with some people I know that will be beta testers. Carlos

October 7th, 2004, 10:58 AM	#64
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Simple answer..... Sony wouldn't release a new system that did have those problems. HD is so less forgiving when it comes to playback compared to SD video. SD masks artifacts and other issues due to it's already low res and softer video. HD and it's monitors are more exact and don't hide artifacts. Sony would be shooting their own foot if their Flagship HDV camera's ( FX1&PD190 ) did have these issues. This post about problems during pans are the same hogwash that was posted about Mini DV ( VX1000 ) back in 1995-96. People would say they couldn't stop seeing the artifacts etc. BS then, most likely BS today........ """"What I can't conceive, if it may be possible, is how a company like Sony will release a supposedly high-definition equipment that can not pan with the same quality as it does static shots."""""