Hvr-z1e

Damian O'Neil · February 28th, 2005, 04:50 PM

Hi all

I work for the Beeb as a news videojournalist. I use a PD150 and edit on Avid Xpress Pro and FCP.

I hear my bosses are looking at replacing the PD150s with the HVR-Z1E, so I've been reading up whatever I can find. I'm on leave at the moment so can't find anything out from my colleagues.

I know we don't broadcast in HD, so I'm wondering whether this means I'll have to stick to shooting in DV. If this is so, what would be the point in upgrading to this camera?

Many thanks.

Sean M Lee · February 28th, 2005, 05:26 PM

future flexibility?

Steve Shovlar · February 28th, 2005, 05:33 PM

HI Damian I am at the other end of the country to you in sunny Dorset!

I have been shooting with an FX1 since the day it came out and love it. Shoot everything in HDV to make it future proof. Edit in FCP in dv mode for the North West Tonight program, or whatever its callled. The quality is amazing and will blow your PD150 footage out of the water.

Cheers
Steve

Damian O'Neil · February 28th, 2005, 05:39 PM

Hi Steve

Thanks a lot for the reply. Just to be clear - in order to get a good picture, and one that is in the correct format for broadcast, I shoot in HD then import it into FCP - do I have to convert it into DV before I can edit it? If so, how? Can Avid do this too?

If this is the case, I'm excited. The PD150 is OK but the pictures can look mushy, IMO.

I guess the DV performance of the HVR/FX1 is pretty similar to the PD150?

Thanks again for the reply, much appreciated.

Cheers

Damian

Steve Shovlar · February 28th, 2005, 05:50 PM

Hi Damian,
you just capture the footage as standard DV in FCP. I hear that by June the new version of FCP5 will have a built in capture facility for capturing and editing HD without the need for outside software.

The quality in standard DV mode is excellent. Native 16:9, Better than the PD150/70 IMO.

You can of course now use LumiereHD to capture the High Definition footage to FCP, edit in real time, and send back to tape. So once edited, you can output in standard DV mode and have a High Definition copy on tape for future broadcasts.

I have never used Avid, too expensive for me to have two setups!

Joonas Kiviharju · March 1st, 2005, 02:44 AM

What Steve means is that the camera can do the downconvert to DV for you. So you can use your HDV material just as if you were using any other DV material, expect you ofcourse have to use the Z1/FX1 as the deck, because no minidv-deck can play the footage. So avid will work for - shoot HDV, downconvert in-camera while capturing, edit in DV - workflow. Then possibly in the future you can then use the material to do an HDV online if you keep your project files.

The DV material will ofcourse look like downconverted HDV which has some sides you might want to look into. This basically means that the MPEG-2 will show in your downconverted material sometimes. You propably can't see it from a moving image, but on some material, and looking at a still image from the material, there might be some notable MPEG artifacts there.
I'm not trying to scare you, because this is the way I currently do all my stuff. It's just that you know that it's there. Do some tests, if they please your bosses, then HDV might be a good option for future proofing your material.

David Cherniack · March 1st, 2005, 07:19 AM

Try downconverting to DV dark branches aganist a light 80-90 IRE BG. The edge is rimmed with a white outline that's very noticeable. It may be taken care of by turning the sharpening filter way down but I don't think so.

This eliminated for me the possibility of using downconverted footage for broadcast.

Damian O'Neil · March 1st, 2005, 07:43 AM

Hi David

Interesting. So do you stick to shooting in DV for broadcast? If so, how would you rate the quality?

Damian

James Gurden · March 1st, 2005, 08:01 AM

Yeah David, me too...
I'm interested in hearing more of any downconverting artifacting issues as we hadn't previously thought of it!
I'm shooting a documentary series on two Z1s over six weeks starting Late March. The workflow is to shoot HDV and downconvert to DV using the new sony HDV player (which is a beautiful piece of kit BTW!) over firewire for the offline. Then to post and conform a Digi master as normal. But if there are downconterting issues for broadcast... hmmm... darn these new technologies!

Robin Davies-Rollinson · March 1st, 2005, 08:28 AM

I'm shooting a broadcast doc on tree surgeons, so there's lots of branches against sky! I'm shooting in HDV and downconverting and I'm not having any of the problems mentioned...

Robin

Ignacio Rodriguez · March 1st, 2005, 08:53 AM

Robin are you downconverting in the camera or in the NLE?

Robin Davies-Rollinson · March 1st, 2005, 09:20 AM

In the camera...

Robin

Dylan Pank · March 1st, 2005, 10:55 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Damian O'Neil : Hi all

I work for the Beeb as a news videojournalist. I use a PD150 and edit on Avid Xpress Pro and FCP.

I hear my bosses are looking at replacing the PD150s with the HVR-Z1E, so I've been reading up whatever I can find. I'm on leave at the moment so can't find anything out from my colleagues.

I know we don't broadcast in HD, so I'm wondering whether this means I'll have to stick to shooting in DV. If this is so, what would be the point in upgrading to this camera?

Many thanks. -->>>

Are the Beeb expecting you to buy your own cameras now? I now the charter is coming up for renewal and all thatm but I didn't think the budgets were THAT tight... or are you freelancing?

Though there are no plans to broadcast in HD at all at the present time, BBC policy is to shoot everything in High Definition by 2010 (apart from that cruddy videophone stuff from warzones I assume).

It seems likely that you'll have to upgrade at some time. Howver there is still some confusion whether the EU broadcasters will go with 720p or 1080i (Sky has made up their mind, they going 1080i in 2006) so it seems likely you'll have to switch over at some time..

I gather in the past that BBC has required that PD150s/170s had to be altered, in order to bypass what the BBC technicians regard as the PDs' inadequate sound quality. Maybe the Z1E will be subject to the same requirement.

James Gurden · March 1st, 2005, 11:07 AM

Just to add to that, as I understand it the BBC are looking to move to fully HD ACQUISITION by 2006. The 2010 deadline is for braodcasting in HD...

Dylan Pank · March 1st, 2005, 11:22 AM

James, then you have different info from me. From what I picked up at VideoForum, from BBC representatives, was 2010 for 100% HD acquisition, but no timescale at all for HD broadcast. This was stated at a seminar entitled "The BBC and HD" or something like that.

Apparently SkyTV do intend to start HD broadcasting, in 2006, starting with the world cup.

February 28th, 2005, 04:50 PM	#1
Damian O'Neil Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Newcastle, Tyne/Wear Posts: 29	Hvr-z1e - Bbc Tv? Hi all I work for the Beeb as a news videojournalist. I use a PD150 and edit on Avid Xpress Pro and FCP. I hear my bosses are looking at replacing the PD150s with the HVR-Z1E, so I've been reading up whatever I can find. I'm on leave at the moment so can't find anything out from my colleagues. I know we don't broadcast in HD, so I'm wondering whether this means I'll have to stick to shooting in DV. If this is so, what would be the point in upgrading to this camera? Many thanks.

March 1st, 2005, 08:01 AM	#9
James Gurden New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 7	Yeah David, me too... I'm interested in hearing more of any downconverting artifacting issues as we hadn't previously thought of it! I'm shooting a documentary series on two Z1s over six weeks starting Late March. The workflow is to shoot HDV and downconvert to DV using the new sony HDV player (which is a beautiful piece of kit BTW!) over firewire for the offline. Then to post and conform a Digi master as normal. But if there are downconterting issues for broadcast... hmmm... darn these new technologies! __________________ J Gurden

March 1st, 2005, 08:53 AM	#11
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Robin are you downconverting in the camera or in the NLE? __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

March 1st, 2005, 10:55 AM	#13
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	HVR-Z1E - BBCTV? <<<-- Originally posted by Damian O'Neil : Hi all I work for the Beeb as a news videojournalist. I use a PD150 and edit on Avid Xpress Pro and FCP. I hear my bosses are looking at replacing the PD150s with the HVR-Z1E, so I've been reading up whatever I can find. I'm on leave at the moment so can't find anything out from my colleagues. I know we don't broadcast in HD, so I'm wondering whether this means I'll have to stick to shooting in DV. If this is so, what would be the point in upgrading to this camera? Many thanks. -->>> Are the Beeb expecting you to buy your own cameras now? I now the charter is coming up for renewal and all thatm but I didn't think the budgets were THAT tight... or are you freelancing? Though there are no plans to broadcast in HD at all at the present time, BBC policy is to shoot everything in High Definition by 2010 (apart from that cruddy videophone stuff from warzones I assume). It seems likely that you'll have to upgrade at some time. Howver there is still some confusion whether the EU broadcasters will go with 720p or 1080i (Sky has made up their mind, they going 1080i in 2006) so it seems likely you'll have to switch over at some time.. I gather in the past that BBC has required that PD150s/170s had to be altered, in order to bypass what the BBC technicians regard as the PDs' inadequate sound quality. Maybe the Z1E will be subject to the same requirement.

March 1st, 2005, 11:07 AM	#14
James Gurden New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 7	Just to add to that, as I understand it the BBC are looking to move to fully HD ACQUISITION by 2006. The 2010 deadline is for braodcasting in HD... __________________ J Gurden

February 28th, 2005, 05:26 PM	#2
Sean M Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indy Posts: 160	future flexibility?

February 28th, 2005, 05:33 PM	#3
Steve Shovlar Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dorset UK Posts: 697	HI Damian I am at the other end of the country to you in sunny Dorset! I have been shooting with an FX1 since the day it came out and love it. Shoot everything in HDV to make it future proof. Edit in FCP in dv mode for the North West Tonight program, or whatever its callled. The quality is amazing and will blow your PD150 footage out of the water. Cheers Steve

February 28th, 2005, 05:39 PM	#4
Damian O'Neil Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Newcastle, Tyne/Wear Posts: 29	Hi Steve Thanks a lot for the reply. Just to be clear - in order to get a good picture, and one that is in the correct format for broadcast, I shoot in HD then import it into FCP - do I have to convert it into DV before I can edit it? If so, how? Can Avid do this too? If this is the case, I'm excited. The PD150 is OK but the pictures can look mushy, IMO. I guess the DV performance of the HVR/FX1 is pretty similar to the PD150? Thanks again for the reply, much appreciated. Cheers Damian

February 28th, 2005, 05:50 PM	#5
Steve Shovlar Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dorset UK Posts: 697	Hi Damian, you just capture the footage as standard DV in FCP. I hear that by June the new version of FCP5 will have a built in capture facility for capturing and editing HD without the need for outside software. The quality in standard DV mode is excellent. Native 16:9, Better than the PD150/70 IMO. You can of course now use LumiereHD to capture the High Definition footage to FCP, edit in real time, and send back to tape. So once edited, you can output in standard DV mode and have a High Definition copy on tape for future broadcasts. I have never used Avid, too expensive for me to have two setups!

March 1st, 2005, 02:44 AM	#6
Joonas Kiviharju Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 52	What Steve means is that the camera can do the downconvert to DV for you. So you can use your HDV material just as if you were using any other DV material, expect you ofcourse have to use the Z1/FX1 as the deck, because no minidv-deck can play the footage. So avid will work for - shoot HDV, downconvert in-camera while capturing, edit in DV - workflow. Then possibly in the future you can then use the material to do an HDV online if you keep your project files. The DV material will ofcourse look like downconverted HDV which has some sides you might want to look into. This basically means that the MPEG-2 will show in your downconverted material sometimes. You propably can't see it from a moving image, but on some material, and looking at a still image from the material, there might be some notable MPEG artifacts there. I'm not trying to scare you, because this is the way I currently do all my stuff. It's just that you know that it's there. Do some tests, if they please your bosses, then HDV might be a good option for future proofing your material.

March 1st, 2005, 07:19 AM	#7
David Cherniack Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 186	Try downconverting to DV dark branches aganist a light 80-90 IRE BG. The edge is rimmed with a white outline that's very noticeable. It may be taken care of by turning the sharpening filter way down but I don't think so. This eliminated for me the possibility of using downconverted footage for broadcast.

March 1st, 2005, 07:43 AM	#8
Damian O'Neil Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Newcastle, Tyne/Wear Posts: 29	Hi David Interesting. So do you stick to shooting in DV for broadcast? If so, how would you rate the quality? Damian

March 1st, 2005, 08:28 AM	#10
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	I'm shooting a broadcast doc on tree surgeons, so there's lots of branches against sky! I'm shooting in HDV and downconverting and I'm not having any of the problems mentioned... Robin

March 1st, 2005, 09:20 AM	#12
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	In the camera... Robin

March 1st, 2005, 11:22 AM	#15
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	James, then you have different info from me. From what I picked up at VideoForum, from BBC representatives, was 2010 for 100% HD acquisition, but no timescale at all for HD broadcast. This was stated at a seminar entitled "The BBC and HD" or something like that. Apparently SkyTV do intend to start HD broadcasting, in 2006, starting with the world cup.