FX1 24P/30P/60i at DVinfo.net

Noah Hayes · November 13th, 2005, 06:00 PM

I'm planning on buying an FX1 for myself for Christmas...and some people on this forum said they didn't like the 24 frame mode on the FX1 and didn't really explain why. I absolutely love the film look and want to turn my video into 24p, I have Pinnacle Liquid Edition ($50 through work) and Combustion3 so I don't know what the best way to acheive 24fps, I could buy the FX1E which would get me 25fps and i could slow it down 4%, but in your opinions...what would be the best way to attain a 24P look...my budget is about 3500 so I can't buy the HVX200 yet (planning on selling the FX1 sometime next summer to upgrade...)

Boyd Ostroff · November 13th, 2005, 06:20 PM

Here's an article by Adam Wilt that explains the cineframe 24 mode on the FX1: http://www.adamwilt.com/HDV/cineframe.html

Robert Niemann · November 13th, 2005, 07:31 PM

If Your budget is "only" 3.500 and 24p is what You want, then I would recommend to buy a Panasonic AG-DVX100B or a Canon XL2 and not a Sony.

Frederic Segard · November 13th, 2005, 07:39 PM

Do you really need HD? If not, go with the DVX100B or the XL2. Those are the 2 choices that really matter.

Noah Hayes · November 13th, 2005, 10:26 PM

HD is a primary importance to me, I've tried the XL1S/XL2, right next to a Z1U(yeah I know, its not an FX1 but from what I hear they're basically the same) and the Z1U looked far better than the XL2 on an HD display, which is what I'll be showing my video on. I would love to convert 60i to 24P or at least 30P, but that isn't a priority for me. If anyone has any CF24 or CF30 video online, I'd love to see it. I was just wondering if there was a good way of getting a good progressive image out of interlaced video.

Mark Utley · November 13th, 2005, 10:40 PM

Theoretically, can't you essentially get 60P video when downconverting from HDV to SD?

Boyd Ostroff · November 14th, 2005, 09:25 AM

DVFilm Maker will do the conversion: http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/

Meryem Ersoz · November 14th, 2005, 10:46 AM

you should do a search on cineframe24, if you want to understand why the mock 24 fps on an FX-1 isn't really mock 24 fps. i think it has been covered. you have to see it to really understand why the in-camera option won't really work as a substitute for a 24 fps. it doesn't handle motion cleanly. people here have described it as "stuttery," which is close. it almost has an underwater or dream-like quality, not suitable for your average real-time usage. i think it was adam wilt who described it as more of a special effect, which seems accurate to me. it probably can be put to some interesting uses in its own right. i kind of liked playing with it, personally. as everyone here as suggested, there are plenty of post-production ways to get the 24fps effect, so it shouldn't be a deal-breaker, because there are so many things about this camera which are fabulous for its price point....

Robert Niemann · November 14th, 2005, 06:50 PM

Here is the link to Adam J. Wilt's explanation of the Cineframe modes: http://www.adamwilt.com/HDV/cineframe.html.

Boyd Ostroff · November 14th, 2005, 06:58 PM

Hmm... I think there's an echo in here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

Here's an article by Adam Wilt that explains the cineframe 24 mode on the FX1: http://www.adamwilt.com/HDV/cineframe.html

Chad Huntley · November 19th, 2005, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

DVFilm Maker will do the conversion: http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/

On this page, http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#AVsync (scroll down a bit to the table) I noticed there seems to be a potential problem of audio syncing with the footage on some cameras? Does the FX1 sync perfectly?

Allen Lu · November 20th, 2005, 02:46 PM

A lot of people on this board are "professionals" that eventually make their videos rest as film. However before it gets to film, they will not let it rest.

I see this "24cf" argument over and over again and people never say whether they are just using it for home video or are they going to make their videos into film.

To those destined for film - Not everyone will make their videos into film.

To those destined for video/dvd - who cares. Whatever you like. 24cf achieves the "effect" although its not technically correct.

Dylan Pank · November 21st, 2005, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah Hayes

I'm planning on buying an FX1 for myself for Christmas...and some people on this forum said they didn't like the 24 frame mode on the FX1 and didn't really explain why. I absolutely love the film look and want to turn my video into 24p, I have Pinnacle Liquid Edition ($50 through work) and Combustion3 so I don't know what the best way to acheive 24fps, I could buy the FX1E which would get me 25fps and i could slow it down 4%, but in your opinions...what would be the best way to attain a 24P look...my budget is about 3500 so I can't buy the HVX200 yet (planning on selling the FX1 sometime next summer to upgrade...)

Noah, you have to be kidding! I think the nature of the CF24 mode is one of the most argued over, picked over subjects on this forum. Do a search and you'll find plenty.

Basically is comes down to three reasons:

it inserts a pulldown rather than recording progressively.
the frames are made from irregularly timed fields so motion is not smooth (pans can be particularly ugly).
it reduces vertical resolution.

I would suggest you buy the FX1 and find a software de-interlacer for your NLE.

Kurth Bousman · November 29th, 2005, 08:12 PM

...also, imho , cf30 looks pretty nice, if your're only going to dvd. Kurth

Daniel Rudd · February 15th, 2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Utley

Theoretically, can't you essentially get 60P video when downconverting from HDV to SD?

I haven't seen this question definitively answered yet. It seems like a really important one, if anyone's interested in the super smooth slo-mo that 60p would yield.

Daniel

November 13th, 2005, 06:00 PM	#1
Noah Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sterling, Virginia Posts: 226	FX1 24P/30P/60i I'm planning on buying an FX1 for myself for Christmas...and some people on this forum said they didn't like the 24 frame mode on the FX1 and didn't really explain why. I absolutely love the film look and want to turn my video into 24p, I have Pinnacle Liquid Edition ($50 through work) and Combustion3 so I don't know what the best way to acheive 24fps, I could buy the FX1E which would get me 25fps and i could slow it down 4%, but in your opinions...what would be the best way to attain a 24P look...my budget is about 3500 so I can't buy the HVX200 yet (planning on selling the FX1 sometime next summer to upgrade...)

November 13th, 2005, 07:31 PM	#3
Robert Niemann Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Berlin, Federal Republic of Germany Posts: 109	If Your budget is "only" 3.500 and 24p is what You want, then I would recommend to buy a Panasonic AG-DVX100B or a Canon XL2 and not a Sony. Last edited by Robert Niemann; November 14th, 2005 at 05:32 AM.

November 13th, 2005, 10:40 PM	#6
Mark Utley Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 479	Theoretically, can't you essentially get 60P video when downconverting from HDV to SD? __________________ Mark Utley

November 20th, 2005, 02:46 PM	#12
Allen Lu Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 65	CF 24 vs CF 24p A lot of people on this board are "professionals" that eventually make their videos rest as film. However before it gets to film, they will not let it rest. I see this "24cf" argument over and over again and people never say whether they are just using it for home video or are they going to make their videos into film. To those destined for film - Not everyone will make their videos into film. To those destined for video/dvd - who cares. Whatever you like. 24cf achieves the "effect" although its not technically correct.

November 13th, 2005, 06:20 PM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,809	Here's an article by Adam Wilt that explains the cineframe 24 mode on the FX1: http://www.adamwilt.com/HDV/cineframe.html

November 13th, 2005, 07:39 PM	#4
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	Do you really need HD? If not, go with the DVX100B or the XL2. Those are the 2 choices that really matter.

November 13th, 2005, 10:26 PM	#5
Noah Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sterling, Virginia Posts: 226	HD is a primary importance to me, I've tried the XL1S/XL2, right next to a Z1U(yeah I know, its not an FX1 but from what I hear they're basically the same) and the Z1U looked far better than the XL2 on an HD display, which is what I'll be showing my video on. I would love to convert 60i to 24P or at least 30P, but that isn't a priority for me. If anyone has any CF24 or CF30 video online, I'd love to see it. I was just wondering if there was a good way of getting a good progressive image out of interlaced video.

November 14th, 2005, 09:25 AM	#7
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,809	DVFilm Maker will do the conversion: http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/

November 14th, 2005, 10:46 AM	#8
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	you should do a search on cineframe24, if you want to understand why the mock 24 fps on an FX-1 isn't really mock 24 fps. i think it has been covered. you have to see it to really understand why the in-camera option won't really work as a substitute for a 24 fps. it doesn't handle motion cleanly. people here have described it as "stuttery," which is close. it almost has an underwater or dream-like quality, not suitable for your average real-time usage. i think it was adam wilt who described it as more of a special effect, which seems accurate to me. it probably can be put to some interesting uses in its own right. i kind of liked playing with it, personally. as everyone here as suggested, there are plenty of post-production ways to get the 24fps effect, so it shouldn't be a deal-breaker, because there are so many things about this camera which are fabulous for its price point....

November 14th, 2005, 06:50 PM	#9
Robert Niemann Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Berlin, Federal Republic of Germany Posts: 109	Here is the link to Adam J. Wilt's explanation of the Cineframe modes: http://www.adamwilt.com/HDV/cineframe.html.

November 29th, 2005, 08:12 PM	#14
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	...also, imho , cf30 looks pretty nice, if your're only going to dvd. Kurth