does the FX1 offer good film-like depth of field at DVinfo.net

Jay Cowley · May 25th, 2006, 12:37 PM

im trying to find a good HD camera to buy, and it MUST be easy to blur the background on my subjects, like in film.

zooming in on the subject from 10 feet away sucks on consumer cams

how can i tell if a lens has the same attributes of a film lens so that i can easily blur the background when i need to?

does the factory lens from the FX1 do this easily?

Joshua Provost · May 25th, 2006, 02:01 PM

Jay,

The key criteria for obtaining shallow depth of field is going to be the size of the imager, the CCD. In this case, it's a 1/3" CCD, so it's approximately the same depth of field as other 1/3" CCD cameras like the other HD cameras from Canon, Pany, and JVC. By comparison, film has an imaging size of 35mm, roughly 16 times the size of these CCD's.

Bottom line, you are not going to get what you are looking for. Are you familiar with the 35mm adaptor projects, like M2, Brevis35, Letus35, etc.? That's what you need, or wait for the RED camera, which will have a full film size CCD.

Josh

Rafael Lopes · May 25th, 2006, 02:27 PM

Yeah, you should check out some of these 35mm adapters. There's soem amazing stuff being done with them. I have a FX1 and I love it. I just bought a Brevis35 to use all my canon fd lenses with the FX1.

Check this out:
http://www.vilekyle.com/videos/Video...20quailty).wmv

It was shot with the a Z1 (basicly the same camera as the FX1 with some minor extras) and Redrocks' 35mm adapter. Browse around here and on the DVXuser forum and you'll find lots of useful information about these adapters and a lot of very good stuff shot with the FX1.

Jay Cowley · May 25th, 2006, 04:00 PM

these 35mm lens, will they work on my lower grade Sony MiniDv consumer camera, theres no werid fittings on the end, just a focus ring...

Leo Pepingco · May 25th, 2006, 08:15 PM

Backyard DOF.

Open up the Iris allt he way (F1.6 I think)
Zoom the camera in all the way
Place the camera so the framing is what you want (while zoomed in - which means, you have to set the camera far away)
Focus on the object (Notice anything more than half a meter past the object is out of focus)
If you need sound, use a long wire and boompole, or wireless...

viola, no need to buy a 35mm adaptor if you have the option to do the above...

Leo Pepingco · May 25th, 2006, 08:17 PM

Film is an art - and no matter how much money you throw at it, it wonk fix like that.

If someone says you cant do it because the technology isnt there, forget them... Those are the same people who said talking films will never catch on.

Rafael Lopes · May 27th, 2006, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Cowley

these 35mm lens, will they work on my lower grade Sony MiniDv consumer camera, theres no werid fittings on the end, just a focus ring...

They'll work on any video camera. You might need a 5$ adapter ring to fit them into cameras that have smaller filter rings. Most adapters have a 58mm filter ring. I've seen some very impressive and cinematic stuff shot with a panasonic GS400 with the Brevis35 and the M2. Check this out:

http://www.savefile.com/files.php?fid=7729570

It was shot with a GS400 and the Brevis35 (www.cinevate.com)

Heath McKnight · May 30th, 2006, 09:37 PM

Use a lot of light, then stop it down with the Neutral Density filter and get the iris open.

www.redrockmicro.com is nice and affordable. I saw it in action several times on a Z1. Takes a bit of practice, but like anything in this business, what doesn't? (wink)

As for the RED set up, it's $17,500 without lens, cage, storage cards, etc. A $30,000 4k camera is cheap and attractice, but compared to a Z1 or FX1, it's around $25,000 more.

heath

Tomas Chinchilla · May 31st, 2006, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

Use a lot of light, then stop it down with the Neutral Density filter and get the iris open.

www.redrockmicro.com is nice and affordable. I saw it in action several times on a Z1. Takes a bit of practice, but like anything in this business, what doesn't? (wink)

As for the RED set up, it's $17,500 without lens, cage, storage cards, etc. A $30,000 4k camera is cheap and attractice, but compared to a Z1 or FX1, it's around $25,000 more.

heath

Heath, I am not a filmaker or anything like that by any means, I am just a hobbyist, and I have always been curious about the same remark I see everywhere about light.

"Use a lot of light, then stop it down" can you help me understand the science behind this? it might be stupid but hey it never hurts to ask.

Heath McKnight · May 31st, 2006, 09:26 AM

Sure, when I pull a Z1 or any HDV or DV camera with 1/3 inch CCDs back, then zoom in, I'm automatically getting shallow depth of field. Now, when I start irising up, letting in more light, the stuff that's out of focus gets even MORE out of focus.

Now, I'm not sure how to explain it scientifically, but that's what I see. If you can't get the iris to open more because it'll be too blown out, throw in more light and use a neutral density. Then iris up--it won't be blown out and the shallow focus will be in the background.

heath

Tomas Chinchilla · May 31st, 2006, 09:41 AM

Got it Thanks!

May 25th, 2006, 12:37 PM	#1
Jay Cowley Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Niagara, Ontario Posts: 141	does the FX1 offer good film-like depth of field im trying to find a good HD camera to buy, and it MUST be easy to blur the background on my subjects, like in film. zooming in on the subject from 10 feet away sucks on consumer cams how can i tell if a lens has the same attributes of a film lens so that i can easily blur the background when i need to? does the factory lens from the FX1 do this easily?

May 25th, 2006, 02:01 PM	#2
Joshua Provost Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 493	Jay, The key criteria for obtaining shallow depth of field is going to be the size of the imager, the CCD. In this case, it's a 1/3" CCD, so it's approximately the same depth of field as other 1/3" CCD cameras like the other HD cameras from Canon, Pany, and JVC. By comparison, film has an imaging size of 35mm, roughly 16 times the size of these CCD's. Bottom line, you are not going to get what you are looking for. Are you familiar with the 35mm adaptor projects, like M2, Brevis35, Letus35, etc.? That's what you need, or wait for the RED camera, which will have a full film size CCD. Josh __________________ Owner/Operator, 727 Records Co-Founder, Matter of Chance Productions Blogger, Try Avoidance

May 30th, 2006, 09:37 PM	#8
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Use a lot of light, then stop it down with the Neutral Density filter and get the iris open. www.redrockmicro.com is nice and affordable. I saw it in action several times on a Z1. Takes a bit of practice, but like anything in this business, what doesn't? (wink) As for the RED set up, it's $17,500 without lens, cage, storage cards, etc. A $30,000 4k camera is cheap and attractice, but compared to a Z1 or FX1, it's around $25,000 more. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 31st, 2006, 09:26 AM	#10
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Sure, when I pull a Z1 or any HDV or DV camera with 1/3 inch CCDs back, then zoom in, I'm automatically getting shallow depth of field. Now, when I start irising up, letting in more light, the stuff that's out of focus gets even MORE out of focus. Now, I'm not sure how to explain it scientifically, but that's what I see. If you can't get the iris to open more because it'll be too blown out, throw in more light and use a neutral density. Then iris up--it won't be blown out and the shallow focus will be in the background. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 31st, 2006, 09:41 AM	#11
Tomas Chinchilla Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 212 Images: 8	Got it Thanks! __________________ Tomas A. Chinchilla \| CANON XH A1, HV20 & HC3 \| Retired Cams: GL2, HC1, FX1, Z1, \| Final Cut Studio 2

May 25th, 2006, 02:27 PM	#3
Rafael Lopes Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro Posts: 1,239	Yeah, you should check out some of these 35mm adapters. There's soem amazing stuff being done with them. I have a FX1 and I love it. I just bought a Brevis35 to use all my canon fd lenses with the FX1. Check this out: http://www.vilekyle.com/videos/Video...20quailty).wmv It was shot with the a Z1 (basicly the same camera as the FX1 with some minor extras) and Redrocks' 35mm adapter. Browse around here and on the DVXuser forum and you'll find lots of useful information about these adapters and a lot of very good stuff shot with the FX1.

May 25th, 2006, 04:00 PM	#4
Jay Cowley Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Niagara, Ontario Posts: 141	these 35mm lens, will they work on my lower grade Sony MiniDv consumer camera, theres no werid fittings on the end, just a focus ring...

May 25th, 2006, 08:15 PM	#5
Leo Pepingco Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 275	Backyard DOF. Open up the Iris allt he way (F1.6 I think) Zoom the camera in all the way Place the camera so the framing is what you want (while zoomed in - which means, you have to set the camera far away) Focus on the object (Notice anything more than half a meter past the object is out of focus) If you need sound, use a long wire and boompole, or wireless... viola, no need to buy a 35mm adaptor if you have the option to do the above...

May 25th, 2006, 08:17 PM	#6
Leo Pepingco Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 275	Film is an art - and no matter how much money you throw at it, it wonk fix like that. If someone says you cant do it because the technology isnt there, forget them... Those are the same people who said talking films will never catch on.