Flipout screen on Z1/FX1 at DVinfo.net

Ian Thomas · August 31st, 2006, 02:21 PM

Sorry if this of post but if you shoot in HDV on the FX1 or the Z1 and then play it back in camera is it HD that see in the Flip out screen or is it just SD

Thanks
Ian

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 31st, 2006, 02:26 PM

It's SD. No camera that I know of, upsamples SD to HD. The Sony cams display whatever the playback format is, so if you shot HDV, you see HDV on playback, if you shot SD, you see SD on playback.
JVC's BR50 deck upsamples DVX footage to 720p for HDMI output; it looks great, but that's a deck, not a cam. :-)

Chris Barcellos · August 31st, 2006, 03:17 PM

I think his question was whether HDV playing back on the flip out is showing in HDV. I think it would technically not be considered HD because the screen has 250,880 pixels, but I don't think any display that small would show much better resolution. The display has had high praises in terms of it crispness and its capabilities even in daylight.

Chris Barcellos · August 31st, 2006, 03:22 PM

Followup: I recently tried an experiment using a magnifying hood from my
Medium Format 2 1/4 film camera, and placed it on the flip out viewfinder to see if it would work well enough engineer a "shoulder" type way of shooting with the FX1. Throught the maginfied viewfinder, it becomes clear that the LCD is not really HD.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 31st, 2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

I think his question was whether HDV playing back on the flip out is showing in HDV. I think it would technically not be considered HD because the screen has 250,880 pixels, but I don't think any display that small would show much better resolution. The display has had high praises in terms of it crispness and its capabilities even in daylight.

I may have misinterpreted the question, because I'd assume it's obvious to everyone that you're not going to get "true" HD on an LCD screen of this size. No, it's not HD in the display, and to my knowledge, none of the manufacturers are claiming their LCD displays on the camcorders are full HD resolution.

Ian Thomas · August 31st, 2006, 04:08 PM

Sorry if it was unclear, What i asked was if you shoot in HDV when you review your footage with the flip out screen is it able to to show you in HDV?

I use Pinnacle 6.1 my computer has a 2.4gb mother board with 1gb memory
If i set pinnacle to capture HDV will i be able to edit it

Thanks Ian

Chris Barcellos · August 31st, 2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Thomas

Sorry if it was unclear, What i asked was if you shoot in HDV when you review your footage with the flip out screen is it able to to show you in HDV?

I use Pinnacle 6.1 my computer has a 2.4gb mother board with 1gb memory
If i set pinnacle to capture HDV will i be able to edit it

Thanks Ian

As far as I know, 6.1 is not HDV enabled. You would need to upgrade to at least Premiere Pro 1.51, but you might as well go to 2.0, as I think the upgrade cost is same. But also be prepared to upgrade entire system. YOu can use Cineforms AspectHD in 2.0, which will enable using their codec and superior color managment and editing processes, and that will lower the level of a system you need too, but I would recommend you should be looking at a better system than that any way, because you will be wanting more speed and capabilities in the future anyway.

Douglas R. Bruce · August 31st, 2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

As far as I know, 6.1 is not HDV enabled.

Sorry, Chris, I have to disagree.

I have been using Pinnacle 6.1 for over 1 year now. (I am assuming we are talking about Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6.1)
It was one of the first NLE's that supported HDV editing.
I use it daily for HDV work.

The limiting factor with Liquid Edition (and the updated AVID Liquid 7.1) is that you need a much more powerful computer than Premiere needs.

Chris Barcellos · August 31st, 2006, 06:15 PM

error in initial post and double posted in error.

Chris Barcellos · August 31st, 2006, 06:22 PM

Follow up. I have actually edited HDV with Pinnacle's Studio 10.5 plus, which has been improving with the updates. There were big issues with the orignal 10. The reason I mention this is that it is my understanding that it has the same engine as Liquid.

I agree with system needs. I am actually able to get decent performance with a AMD 3800+ Dual core, with a 2 gigs memory...

Noah Hayes · August 31st, 2006, 07:25 PM

Ian, theres apparently a lot of confusion as to what you actually use, but assuming that you are using Pinnacle Studio 6.1, then it will ABSOLUTELY NOT do anything even within the ballpark of HDV(Pinnacle Studio 10 is the first to do that...even with version 10.5, still kinda buggy). Now if you have Pinnacle Liquid 6.1 (as said previously) yes it will work with HDV...

HOWEVER, IMHO, Pinnacle (all versions) is one of the most unnecessarily power hungry pieces of software I've ever used. If you are using a Windows machine, the most cost effective software that I would reccomend for your currect PC is Adobe Premiere 2.0 or Sony Vegas 6.0(I think thats the latest version)

Both Vegas and Premiere are significantly more efficient with system resources and will process HDV video fine...

Again, confusion. I believe the orignal question was as to whether the LCD would display HDV video. The answer is NO, as previously mentioned, the LCD is somewhere around 288,000 pixels which is perfectly fine for an LCD of that size, but it will not show you full resolution (which is why the expanded focus button exists, so you can zoom in to a 1:1 ratio for focusing)

Hope this post compiles all the previous information and clears everything up for you!

Ian Thomas · September 1st, 2006, 01:29 AM

thanks everybody for your replies, yes it is confusing!

Noah, yes iam useing Pinnacle liquid edition 6.1 and yes is HDV enabled
I just wondered if my computer was up to speed and could handle it,

Interesting what you said about Pinnacle been power hungry, I have been reluctant to change as i have always used them and got familer with them

Whats the learning curve like on the one's you mention

Thanks
Ian

Noah Hayes · September 1st, 2006, 09:39 PM

Well I find that once you know one editing suite, its just a matter of learning changes in shortcut keys and button placement to switch. I used to use Premiere and now I use Final Cut Studio 5.1, and although I only used Vegas for a week using a friends machine while working on a project, I found it pretty easy to pickup. If you have a dual-core machine you're probably set, but if not I'd reccommend a faster processor than a 2.4Ghz P4 (if thats the processor you have) in terms of RAM, to be honest I've never really seen a huge difference for simple editing between 1GB and 2GB, that mostly will benefit you (in my experience) when using apps like After Effects, Combustion, Motion, Shake, or 3D graphic programs. Video editing apps generally just need a lot of processing power.

My Macbook Pro(2.0Ghz coreduo 2GB) is MUCH faster than my PC(3.2GHz P4 2GB)

August 31st, 2006, 02:21 PM	#1
Ian Thomas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: York, North Yorkshire, England. Posts: 472	Sorry if this of post but if you shoot in HDV on the FX1 or the Z1 and then play it back in camera is it HD that see in the Flip out screen or is it just SD Thanks Ian __________________ Ian Thomas. Thomas Video Productions

August 31st, 2006, 02:26 PM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	It's SD. No camera that I know of, upsamples SD to HD. The Sony cams display whatever the playback format is, so if you shot HDV, you see HDV on playback, if you shot SD, you see SD on playback. JVC's BR50 deck upsamples DVX footage to 720p for HDMI output; it looks great, but that's a deck, not a cam. :-) __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

August 31st, 2006, 03:17 PM	#3
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I think his question was whether HDV playing back on the flip out is showing in HDV. I think it would technically not be considered HD because the screen has 250,880 pixels, but I don't think any display that small would show much better resolution. The display has had high praises in terms of it crispness and its capabilities even in daylight. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 31st, 2006, 03:22 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Followup: I recently tried an experiment using a magnifying hood from my Medium Format 2 1/4 film camera, and placed it on the flip out viewfinder to see if it would work well enough engineer a "shoulder" type way of shooting with the FX1. Throught the maginfied viewfinder, it becomes clear that the LCD is not really HD. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 31st, 2006, 04:08 PM	#6
Ian Thomas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: York, North Yorkshire, England. Posts: 472	Sorry if it was unclear, What i asked was if you shoot in HDV when you review your footage with the flip out screen is it able to to show you in HDV? I use Pinnacle 6.1 my computer has a 2.4gb mother board with 1gb memory If i set pinnacle to capture HDV will i be able to edit it Thanks Ian __________________ Ian Thomas. Thomas Video Productions

August 31st, 2006, 06:15 PM	#9
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	error in initial post and double posted in error. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 31st, 2006, 06:22 PM	#10
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Follow up. I have actually edited HDV with Pinnacle's Studio 10.5 plus, which has been improving with the updates. There were big issues with the orignal 10. The reason I mention this is that it is my understanding that it has the same engine as Liquid. I agree with system needs. I am actually able to get decent performance with a AMD 3800+ Dual core, with a 2 gigs memory... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 31st, 2006, 07:25 PM	#11
Noah Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sterling, Virginia Posts: 226	Ian, theres apparently a lot of confusion as to what you actually use, but assuming that you are using Pinnacle Studio 6.1, then it will ABSOLUTELY NOT do anything even within the ballpark of HDV(Pinnacle Studio 10 is the first to do that...even with version 10.5, still kinda buggy). Now if you have Pinnacle Liquid 6.1 (as said previously) yes it will work with HDV... HOWEVER, IMHO, Pinnacle (all versions) is one of the most unnecessarily power hungry pieces of software I've ever used. If you are using a Windows machine, the most cost effective software that I would reccomend for your currect PC is Adobe Premiere 2.0 or Sony Vegas 6.0(I think thats the latest version) Both Vegas and Premiere are significantly more efficient with system resources and will process HDV video fine... Again, confusion. I believe the orignal question was as to whether the LCD would display HDV video. The answer is NO, as previously mentioned, the LCD is somewhere around 288,000 pixels which is perfectly fine for an LCD of that size, but it will not show you full resolution (which is why the expanded focus button exists, so you can zoom in to a 1:1 ratio for focusing) Hope this post compiles all the previous information and clears everything up for you!

September 1st, 2006, 01:29 AM	#12
Ian Thomas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: York, North Yorkshire, England. Posts: 472	thanks everybody for your replies, yes it is confusing! Noah, yes iam useing Pinnacle liquid edition 6.1 and yes is HDV enabled I just wondered if my computer was up to speed and could handle it, Interesting what you said about Pinnacle been power hungry, I have been reluctant to change as i have always used them and got familer with them Whats the learning curve like on the one's you mention Thanks Ian __________________ Ian Thomas. Thomas Video Productions

September 1st, 2006, 09:39 PM	#13
Noah Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sterling, Virginia Posts: 226	Well I find that once you know one editing suite, its just a matter of learning changes in shortcut keys and button placement to switch. I used to use Premiere and now I use Final Cut Studio 5.1, and although I only used Vegas for a week using a friends machine while working on a project, I found it pretty easy to pickup. If you have a dual-core machine you're probably set, but if not I'd reccommend a faster processor than a 2.4Ghz P4 (if thats the processor you have) in terms of RAM, to be honest I've never really seen a huge difference for simple editing between 1GB and 2GB, that mostly will benefit you (in my experience) when using apps like After Effects, Combustion, Motion, Shake, or 3D graphic programs. Video editing apps generally just need a lot of processing power. My Macbook Pro(2.0Ghz coreduo 2GB) is MUCH faster than my PC(3.2GHz P4 2GB)