Z1 QuickRecord ?
 

I don't have a Z1, but I'm studying the manual to decide between the FX1 and Z1. QuickRecord may be a major feature for me.

What exactly does QuickRecord do ? I've been waiting for buffering that would in effect make recording more responsive to the Record button. Does QuickRecord actually record the data that is usually lost between the time the Record button is pressed and the tape mechanism starts up ?

I don't think there's any buffering involved. In your studies of the manual you should have seen this:

So I think it just spins up and starts recording without going through a longer routine of positioning the tape more precisely. I'm not sure since I've never used it on my Z1, but I thought I read somewhere that this could cause timecode breaks.

Thanks. I was hoping for a magic buffering function. If QuickRecord causes timecode breaks, that could be a problem.

That's exactly what it does: produce timecode hiccups. Your editing system will despise video shot in this mode.

Vegas and Premiere Pro have no problems using QuickRec footage. I generally have it on more than not.

Hi there

I use the quick record occasionally when I need to pick up the camera and for it to roll asap...

I use PPro for editing and have never found it loses timecode... however I do notice a slight freeze on the last image when I stop the camera... Not a problem as I just cut it out...

Also after a few minutes, even with Quick Record enabled, the camera does make a power down noise and then takes several seconds to start rolling again...this can be annoying, as you have to constantly tell people to hang on until the camera boots back up...

Regards
Gareth

Yup - no problem with Premiere v6.5 either. But the delay in start up to which Gareth refers has made me invent some rather artistic editing cover-ups, I can tell you.

Just recently the crowd had begun throwing the confetti while I was mentally yelling at my Z1 ''COME ON!, turn on!" The resulting clip I got started from confetti halfway toward the couple's heads onwards, so I was forced to make a feature of it.

I used the Canopus speed controller to vary the speed from a still frame (confetti in the air)smoothly through to normal speed (confetti all over them). They thought that was very imaginative (thank goodness).

tom.

Sony's DR-60 would be a nice way to avoid those problems :-)

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan.../hvr_dr60.html

Or better yet, let's ask for this on the camcorder. At 25 megabits/second or about ~3 megabytes/second, there is little reason that a 16-32 MByte memory buffer couldn't be installed before the tape mechanism. The buffer would be filled at soon as you push the record button, and the tape would be written to for a few seconds after you push stop. This buffer could be programmed to hold a few seconds before you being recording to allow for some transitional material.

Funnily enough, my first experience with a Z1 was a rental. Quick record on this particular camera caused no timecode breaks. Later, I bought my own Z1 and happily enabled quick record. Much to my dismay, timecode breaks all over the place.

So I'm back to the good old "wait 5 seconds after pushing the fricking button" mode. I love this camera, but this has got to be the single most annoying thing about it.

That, and I can't get the tape door open half the time without trying twice...

Oh yeah, and in VCR mode, it's really hard to review footage, cause you always rewind farther than you think. The image doesn't seem to update smoothly.

Anyway, thank god the image is so great!

Surely, you flatter the Z1?

Push the button, wait, wait, omigod the shot's gone, wait, oh, we're lacing up and finding a GoP, now I'm shooting boredom, REC light comes on, and I get absolutely nothing. I hit the tit again. Editor corners me that evening... So what's with all the snapshots of bored people? You should have seen it 20 seconds before...

This is why tape sucks rocks through straws...

Hi Matt. I've been considering buying a Z1, but this sounds ominous. Are you talking about delay from the point of switching on the camera, or is the camera already switched on and you still get a lag when pressing the record button? In other words, if I have the camera switched on all the time, would this problem go away?

Richard

Sadly, no, as the tape mechanism powers down (or a low power state through the drums) after a few mins of not recording. I have not found if to be too bigger problem but that's because the majority of the time I can control what I shoot (ie films and music vids). I do occasionally get, "rolling, and-wait, wait, wait.... action". You can't really let this stop you from getting this awesome camera though!

I nice feature to add in a firmware upgrade would be a "Never Power Down Tape Mechanism" option in the menu. If I'm running the Z1 from an electrical outlet, or I easily have enough batteries to do the shoot, I'd like that option unless the tape is degraded.

Thanks Ainslie. When my old VX2000 was my main camera, I got used to hearing it power down, and then I would just cycle the power switch to bring it back up right away. It was very unusual that it would be off at the critical moment.

If the power up time for the Z1 is similar to the VX2000 I could live with that OK. Do you happen to know if they are comparable?

Richard

I've moved from the VX2000 to the Z1, and if the Z1 is filming in the SD mode then yes, they're compatible.

Tom, I think he wants to know if the time it takes for the Z1 to power up is comparable to the VX-2000, not compatible :-)

I just put the VX-2000 next to the Z1 and switched them both on. The startup time is similar, but not exactly the same. This was very unscientific, but both of them had booted and showed an image and data on the screen in 7 or 8 seconds. The Z1 continued to "think" about this for a few more seconds and refreshed the data on its screen at about 13 seconds after power up. I did not try a test of putting them each into record mode, but my gut feeling is that the Z1 is slower to actually start recording than the VX-2000.

IMO, this would be a pretty questionable reason not to upgrade from the VX-2000 to the Z1 however.

definite time code breaks with Avid, not a few a bunch of breaks

Hi Boyd. Yes that's exactly what I meant, thanks.

As a reason not to upgrade, I would never have considered this before. The switch-on behaviour of the VX2000 is fine for me, and I have not seen any negative comments about it in the past.

In this case, I saw the comments on this thread in the last couple of days and am wondering how bad it must be for people to mention it. If it really is so bad that people are missing critical shots then there are other cameras around to choose from.

Of course, it might well be that the comments are mostly exaggeration and humour, and that there is no serious issue at all. Asking for comparisons to the VX2000 is just my way of trying to quantify the problem, so your inputs are very welcome.

Richard

I ran the Z1 at the "Texas Shootout" last winter. I think it spins down sooner than some of the other cameras. It got to be a little bit of a joke with Adam after awhile; he would call out "roll Z1" and then "roll other cameras." We would all report "speed" when our cameras were rolling tape. In reality, I don't think the Z1 was much different than the Canon and JVC to spin up from a dead stop (of course the Panasonic doesn't count because of P2 :-) But I think it just has a shorter idle time setting which causes it to spin down sooner than the other cameras, so when Adam yelled "roll" the Canon and JVC were still spinning and the Z1 wasn't.

Maybe someone has some real data on this? Heh, if Pete, Nate or Greg see this thread they'll probably claim the Z1 is really slow though, just to pick on me ;-)

I wish it would start faster, but honestly the experience is not all that different from my PDX-10 or VX-2000. As per my post above, I'd guess it might take the Z1 5 seconds longer to start recording. It's certainly better than the VX-2000 which completely goes to sleep after awhile :-)

Thanks for the background info Boyd. Much appreciated.

Richard

Set my Z1 to quick record last year (right out of the box - have yet to turn it off) - 50 or so tapes later I have yet to have any grief - zero incidents on time code or anything else. Using FCP on post production. The "startup" time to "rolling tape" is totally acceptable. At my end it's been a none issue. Wish I could share the pixie dust.

I have both FX1 and VX2000. I think the delay is much longer on the FX1-- seems like 3 to 5 seconds or more, when it has gone completely down. I haven't ever seen that kind of delay on the VX2000

I think I have a worse problem with mine.
 

I have used all sorts of cameras from small DV cameras to Digibetas and HDcam cameras. So I do not think I am doing anything wrong or having an incorrect setting. But with my Z1 even when it is not in Quick Record mode, I have timecode breaks when I pause the camera. And I am familiar with setting timecode in Preset or Regen mode. In either mode it will have this unpredictable timecode breaks. And this happens even if I do not review the footage because some of you may say it is because I did not cue the tape correctly after reviewing it. So this is not even the case. And yes, the camera is definitely not in Quick Record mode because I have basically never used that mode and I am sure it is turned off. So I am at a complete loss with this annoying problem. And it is not the tapes because I always use new tapes and it is happening since I bought this camera. And this happens either in Preset time code or Regen time code. It does not matter. Footage from my DSR-135 camcorder or PD170 have never a problem like this. Could it still be a problem with Final Cut Pro? I usually capture downconverting from HDV to DV using FCP HD. I have the "continue capture on drop frames" enabled. This is what happens, after the program encounters a posssible t/c break, usually when I have paused the camera, it will start looking for the next clip. Many times it will find it taking several seconds or minutes to do so. But sometimes it will not. So I will have to manually start recapturing. I use the camera to capture the footage because i do not have a dedicated HDV deck and there is a specific reason I need to do the downconvert while capturing. Never had a problem like this with any other camera. I love this camera but this is driving me nuts. Any suggestions on how to solve this will be appreciated. But I really think it is not something basic I am missing.

I think you're right Augusto, and the Z1 you have is faulty. Is it still covered by Sony's guarantee?

With my FX-1, start-up can be slooowww. I find myself hitting the pause/record button after 30sec/1 min or so to keep it from spinning down if I'm waiting for something time critical...a bit of a pain but you adjust to the situation.