MRC-1 missing frames
 

I'm having an issue where a couple of frames are missing from long clips. If I shoot an hour long service, every 21 minutes (this is not exact because I'm not in front of my computer) when the clip spits automatically it leaves a gap in audio and video. It looks like a jump cut and if someone happens to be speaking, lost audio. Is anyone else having this problem?
I called Sony and they told me to reset the unit but that hasn't helped. I've had the same problem whether I use the Sony utility program or just drag the files straight to my hard drive.

Rob,

I've only run one test with spanned files on my new MRC1. Throughout the test using a 300X UDMA CF card, I had the Z5 pointed at my iPhone running iSlate, which displays a running time sync that includes frame count. I can't say how accurate it is, but I was unable to detect any lost frames when dragging individual files into Premire Pro. Shooting 24P without tape. Maybe higher FPS would be more prone to the problem.

I have noticed about a one second frame loss at the end of any clip.

I'll be shooting more long footage this weekend and will closely examine the join point.

See if you can notice where it splits on it's own. I didn't notice it at first time because there was no audio and nobody was moving. I looked back and it is there as well.

Rob, I noticed this when I did a test.

I filmed for an hour using tape and card.

Loaded tape on to timeline and then imported SEPARATE clips from card (over 20mins will be split up into separate clips, so if you film 40mins you get 2 clips, 60 mins 3 clips)

When I loaded the SEPARATE clips on to timeline and lined them up in syn with the tape, there were a few frames missing from the beginning of each clip.

When I used the Sony utility, which joins the separated clips together, there were no missing frames and the stitched clips were in sync., so I suggest you use the Sony Utility and see if you get the same results.

Peter

OK, I just ran a test 3 times with the exact same results. I used iSlate so that the time sync display was unique in each frame (did a very nice job). I dragged the two files separately into the timeline of Premiere Pro. I then used the Sony Recording Unit in Windows to covert the two files into a single file. Results:

- No frames were lost at the start of recording
- No frames were lost at the end of recording
- Two frames were lost at the join point when joining separate files
- No frames are lost at the join point using the RU utility

So I guess my workflow will still involve directly dragging the separate files into my timeline unless those two frames at the join point are critical.

I got the same results with and without the utility. I shot again today and tried
re-formatting the CF cards before I shot. I'll try to get it loaded later and see what happens.

We are having the same issue! We have a shoot this weekend so hopefully we can figure it out by then. If we do, I will let you all know.

Sadly, after resetting the unit and re-formatting the CF cards, same crap. At 21:42:28, there is a lapse in audio. I have imported the footage directly into my NLE and have used the Sony utility program with the same results. it is obviously an inherent problem with the unit. I could see someone overlooking the problem but I bet it will be there if you are taking long services. As long as you’re not shooting over 21 minutes I guess you’re okay. I guess I’ll be on the phone with Sony again.

You're not the first to have this issue, and in my opinion it is a major one. I mean, the whole *point* of this device is to shoot stuff longer than will fit on an hour tape, at least for me. But as long as these people keep insisting on the units only using FAT32, they're worthless in my book.

Otherwise I'd buy four tomorrow.

There are at least a couple of other threads about this in the MRC1 forum.

I spoke to someone at Sony today and he said something about a software upgrade being available. He's going to call me back Monday but it didn't sound like it would come as a firmware upgrade, It sounded as though the unit may have to be sent in. As soon as I have more info I'll pass it along.

I would find it astounding if the firmware couldn't be upgraded via the CF card. Even my $200 point & shoot camera can do that.

That was the first question I asked and that is what he told me. Hopefully, I'll something Monday

Rob,
Thanks for posting this up and doing so much of the footwork. I suspect there are a lot of people lurking around this topic waiting to see what you find out about the software upgrade. Please let us know if Sony has anything to say, and thanks again.

They never called me back and I've been so busy I forgot. I'll call again.

The ONLY way that I have been able to get the utility to work is if the files are still on the original CF card. My Sony utilty program will not even recognize anything at all, if the clips have been copied to any other drive or storage medium. I shot a ballet recently and each act was almost an hour long. I pulled the cards right out of the camera and ran everything through the utility. It worked perfectly. And when I went to put them on the timeline, 6 - 20+ minutes clips became 2 - 1 hour clips.

Yes, that is what I experienced with the Sony Utility. To clarify: I wanted to compare 2 separate workflows using a single shot that exceeded 4GB so 2 files were created on the CF card:

Workflow 1 (No Sony Utility): Dragging the 2 files directly from the card into Premiere Pro CS4 and then to the timeline. Result: 2 frame gap at the join point

Workflow 2: Using the Sony Utility program to convert two files on the card into a single file. This file was then dragged into Premiere Pro and then into the timeline. Result: No gap.

Ohhh. I read that to mean that you dragged both to PP FIRST and then used the utilty.

So, Greg, is this the resolution to the problem you posted about in your other thread?

This is the way the Sony Motion Browser software works for cams like the XR500. The camera sees one clip however long the shot was, Sony Motion Browser sees this one clip to transfer to the PC and when transferred it is one long clip. I know that the hard drive on the XR500 is FAT 32 but I never see this when looking at clips on the camera or when Sony Motion Browser looks at a clip on the camera from the PC. FAT32 is always masked from the user. I have shot several shows in the last month where I left the XR500 running for about 3 hours and the clip was transferred as 1 clip.

Ron Evans

I downloaded some footage I shot this weekend, I used the utility program, and it worked fine. Unless resetting the unit as Sony suggested and re-formatting the cards did something, I couldn’t get it to work before. When I posted this weekend I used the footage I had from the prior week. I downloaded the new footage last night and it was fine. It worked perfectly. I called Sony last night and the guy I was speaking to didn’t show any software upgrade for the unit. Of course to boot, he said the guy I spoke to Friday didn’t log the call. He suggested I call during the day when more techs would be available. I’ll let everyone know what they tell me. If you’re having the same problem, try resetting the unit and then try the utility. I wish the utility worked with files on the hard drive so I can go back and test the older footage. I guess I could always copy them back to the CF card and try it that way. Sorry for the dissertation.

I believe it was a combination of things. Most of the problems were cleared up when I quit formatting the cards in my computer (I should have read the manual). Ironically, it seemed like I had to format the cards a couple of times in the MRC1 until all of the problems disappeared. It was sort of like there was some kind of residue left over from the computer formatting. ???? For extra insurance, I now avoid formatting the cards unless I have had a problem (no problems recently). Now I just delete files, instead. Plus I don't do anything at all with the CF cards once they come out of the MRC1 until I have run them through the Sony utility. It has been working much better since I adopted this routine. I think 99% of my problems were operator induced errors.

Has anybody had issues with M2T files and Adobe Premiere (or any other software) where the last seven or so frames of each clip has video but no audio? Not a huge deal unless I'm creating an unedited version of a project for a client.

what exactly is this 'sony utility' everyone keeps referring to?

my unit came with a 'utility' called CF Capture, but i don't see any option to 'join' separate takes into one long file?

i can't comment on the above problem since i haven't shot anything continuously for more than 15 to 20 minutes.

leslie

Hi Leslie,

It's actually called the Sony Recording Unit Utility. It's primary task is to join files larger than 4GB as per FAT32 limitations. If you're curious here's the Sony page Digital HD Video Camera Recorder - Memory Recording Unit

It's essential if you have files over 21:44 minutes. But if all your clips are under that, the utility will work, but the end result is the same as if you were to copy the files directly from the unit via Windows explorer.

Unfortunately the unit won't join multiple files into one, just the files that exceed 4GB. It's unfortunate, because up until now, my workflow has consisted of editing hour+ long Matrox AVIs, rather than hundreds of separate clips. On that note, if anyone knows of a utility (for Windows) that will merge multiple M2T files into one large file, I'd be forever indebted!

Rich

thanks richard,

that's the software that came with my mrc1 - and which i use to off-load from cf cards.

in which case, it seems i'd never have know ;-)

Richard,
I haven't tried this with .m2t files, but I've managed to combine multiple .m2ts files using TSRemux or TSMuxer, both free. Neither are perfectly intuitive, but they're not impossible either. They'd be worth a try if you're using Windows.

Hi Alexander,

Thanks a mill for your suggestion. I will definitely give them both a try. How lossless are the resulting files in your opinion?

Rich

Richard,
Since the files are remuxed and non recompressed, the resultant combined file is completely lossless from the previous "generation." You're basically just taking existing streams and joining them together. It's also a pretty quick process. I hope it works on your files. I've only used it to backup my Blu-ray discs. I use Sony's CF Utility to combine the .m2t files from my camera.

I may be wrong, but I think the Sony utility does some magic using the sidecar files for long clips to repair the seam where it breaks them up. The Sony utility is the only way I have found to restore the missing frame(s) at the break.

Alex,

When you say you use Sony's CF Utility to combine the M2Ts from your camera, you mean just the >4GB files, not every single clip (40MB, 100MB, etc) right? I want to make sure I'm not missing out on an updated version of the software...

Rich

Anything over 20 minutes (or 4 GB) you have to use the utility to join the clips otherwise there is a gap. I use the utility to download the whole card because it's easier. You do not have to use the utility on the smaller clips. You can drag the rest of your clips directly on to your hard drive if that's what you prefer.

I use this utility as well to join large files. I was just a little unclear with your last previous post when you stated you used the utility to join M2Ts from your camera - wasn't sure if you meant you could join all M2Ts together, or just the +4GB files.

Regarding my original post on 5/5/10, I've done a ton of research and the issue I'm having with M2Ts and Premiere (7 silent frames and one black frame at end of each M2T) has led back to a bug with Premiere Pro and M2T files. If you change the .M2T extension to .MPG, the black frame goes away, but the sound issue still remains.

I'm anxiously awaiting to see if CS5 has fixed this bug, as it is quite annoying when watching all the footage uncut.