Hiring & Testing the Z7 this weekend

[Robert Bec]

Originally Posted by John Knight

Hey there chunky,

Try http://www.jncfilm.com/pages/eee.wmv

Was that shot with the Z7 John ?

[John Knight]

Originally Posted by Robert Bec

Was that shot with the Z7 John ?

Apparently so. It's the clip John Bour was referring to (3rd page, 3rd comment) on this thread - from their website.

[Robert Bec]

Originally Posted by Jim Andrada

Here's the link to his article. He says it was a Canon HV-20.

www.ssontech.com :: View topic - Just Say NO to CMOS Cameras!

He also says that Sony has tried to minimize it by "rolling the shutter faster" or in other words, speeding up the read-out.

If you rent the Z7 again you might try a vibration test of some kind - maybe shooting from a car on a bumpy road at speed or something.

Hope it isn't as bad as the Canon, but I really trust Russ's technical judgement.

EDIT

Found some more info on this

Rebel Café :: View topic - HV20 Syntheyes test

(Syntheyes also does a neat job of stabilizing a moving camera clip based on solving in 3D instead of 2D, which has the advantage of keeping the vanishing point centered in the frame)

I went through the forum that you posted Jim mate there going on about a camera that retails for just over $1000 come on the Z7 is worth over $7000 where i come from. I ve tested it and never come across what there showing and think about it if you swing any camera from side to side the footage looks crap unless thats how like your footage. That is the most pathetic post i have ever seen.

Rob

[Jim Andrada]

Well, as I said in the beginning, I also had a hard time thinking that Sony would mess up quite that badly.

On the other hand, rolling shutters are different than global shutters and if you dial down his admittedly somewhat emotional reaction there may be a germ of truth in his comments about rolling shutter being less than ideal for match moving.

It all probably depends on one's definition of "good enough for the intended purpose" and what degree of precision is needed for any given project.

Guess I'll just have to get one and try it;<)

[Greg Laves]

This "rolling shutter disasters" theme is getting blown way out of proportion. I have shot from a helicopter and did not require any software to correct the video to make it usable. Not just usable, but great. That Helo footage junk in that one clip is certainly not shot from any Sony with a rolling shutter and besides that footage doesn't even look like any rolling shutter effects that I have seen. I have also shot motorcycle road races (talk about fast pans) and NO ONE will notice any rolling shutter effects if they just sit and watch the footage. It is true that I could stop on one frame in the middle of a fast pan and I might see a slanted telephone pole behind a motorcycle. But when I watch that same footage at regular speed and even knowing that the slanted pole is back there somewhere, I still don't notice it. Same for the flash issues. In my experience no CLIENT will ever say "what was that????" It can be seen by a trained eye but it is easy to fix in post if you are really that worried about it. On the other hand, I would guess that the rolling shutter could be an issue if you were in the middle of the paparazzi at night and you were trying to tape Paris Hilton while she is out on the town. If that is what you are doing, you might want to buy something else.

[Simon Denny]

Hey Robert,
Did you go with the s270?.

I have had a good look and play with the 270.
Things I liked.
Shoulder mount.
Better lens than the Z1.
Zebras, and Peaking at once.
Histogram.
I like the iris ring.
LCD,VF looks great.
The over all feel is important to me and this matches what I’m after.
After using the Sony Z1 hand cam it was nice to have some stability on the shoulder rather than tire after a few minutes and footage becoming shaky. I see for me, this being the next step up camera. The ability to record to tape and card is a bonus as record modes HD and SD. I think for me with the work I do that SD will be alive for some time to come and the s270 fits within these boarders.

The initial cost is rather large with the s270: batteries,case,tripod and camera.

Simon

[Robert Bec]

Originally Posted by Simon Ash

Hey Robert,
Did you go with the s270?.

I have had a good look and play with the 270.
Things I liked.
Shoulder mount.
Better lens than the Z1.
Zebras, and Peaking at once.
Histogram.
I like the iris ring.
LCD,VF looks great.
The over all feel is important to me and this matches what I’m after.
After using the Sony Z1 hand cam it was nice to have some stability on the shoulder rather than tire after a few minutes and footage becoming shaky. I see for me, this being the next step up camera. The ability to record to tape and card is a bonus as record modes HD and SD. I think for me with the work I do that SD will be alive for some time to come and the s270 fits within these boarders.

The initial cost is rather large with the s270: batteries,case,tripod and camera.

Simon

Hey Simon

I am picking up my new Z7 tomorrow from Videocraft so I am very excited. I am coming from a shoulder mount camera which i just cant take no more so i figured i get myself a monopod with legs and a head and thats all i need no more shoulder pains now all i have to deal with are sore feet

Rob

[Jim Andrada]

Greg.

I'm perfectly willing to think that PEOPLE won't really notice the odd frame or so with a slight slant to the telephone pole.

However, I'm also equally willing to think that unnoticeable by people but slight right and left slanting of a couple of frames of a telephone pole WILL throw off the track that a match moving program is trying to compute since it is using the shift between identifiable points in an image to calculate the parallax shift and hence the motion of the camera in 3D space.

Which isn't to say that I wouldn't be delighted with the Z7 for video to be watched by people, just that I might be better off using my HD110 for video for match moving.

Or maybe my sensitivity to a couple of pixel error in a camera track wouldn't be so great and I'd be perfectly OK with the Z7.

[Simon Denny]

Cool Man,
When you get your head around the Z7 can you post some feedback on how it performs ? I would love to hear.

Sore shoulder mmmmmmmm.
Now sore feet, man I know. I did a gig the other day 8 hours in the same spot standing.

Good luck with the new family member.

Simon

[Greg Laves]

Originally Posted by Jim Andrada

Greg.

I'm perfectly willing to think that PEOPLE won't really notice the odd frame or so with a slight slant to the telephone pole.

However, I'm also equally willing to think that unnoticeable by people but slight right and left slanting of a couple of frames of a telephone pole WILL throw off the track that a match moving program is trying to compute since it is using the shift between identifiable points in an image to calculate the parallax shift and hence the motion of the camera in 3D space.

Which isn't to say that I wouldn't be delighted with the Z7 for video to be watched by people, just that I might be better off using my HD110 for video for match moving.

Or maybe my sensitivity to a couple of pixel error in a camera track wouldn't be so great and I'd be perfectly OK with the Z7.

Are you thinking that the telephone pole is slanted to the right in one frame and then slanted to the left in the next frame? If that is what you are referring to, that is not what happens. In a particular panning shot, the telephone pole is always slanted the same direction. Now, if you are violently jerking the camera back and forth and right to left, then you might be able to have the same object slanted in the other direction within 15 to 20 frames. I think it is worth mentioning that I am only able to see a perceivable slant in extremely fast pans. I have not seen any slant in any pans that I have taken from a helicopter, for instance. To induce any significant slanting it usually takes a pan that is so rapid that most clients would not want to use the footage anyway.

[Robert Bec]

Originally Posted by Simon Ash

Cool Man,
When you get your head around the Z7 can you post some feedback on how it performs ? I would love to hear.

Sore shoulder mmmmmmmm.
Now sore feet, man I know. I did a gig the other day 8 hours in the same spot standing.

Good luck with the new family member.

Simon

Hey Simon

You wanted to get feedback on the Z7 well go buy one mate i guarantee you will love it.

Low light fantastic i use the sony 10watt light and its perfect. I had a Z1 and a Z7 side by side in the reception both at 9db both open at f1.6 and i would say the Z7 was 2 stops faster the z1 owner was using my Z7 through the night and admitted that it kicked the Z1's ass.

sharper LCD screen much much better control and feel of the lens.i would love to buy a second one but cant afford one so i am looking for a z1 as my back-up camera and once upon a time i used to be so negative towards this camera but until you actually use one it is then you realize what an awesome piece of equipment Sony have unleashed.

Rolling shutter is not an issue at all flashes were going off strobing lights people post the most negative points about this camera maybe there contracted by the other manufactures out there to post negative comments hoping to stop people from purchasing sony and that's how i got sucked in from the beginning dont listening to what people say (negaitve pionts) on forums i have learnt try before you buy i waited this long to purchase one when i could have had a Z7 months ago

10/10 for this camera

[Simon Denny]

Cheers Robert,

I had a great play with the s270 last week and I loved it. I'm thinking of hiring one to give it a real go.
The camera is far superior in low light compared to the Z1 and doing a side by side comparison you can see the difference.
I'm ready for an upgrade and I'm confused as to which camera the EX3 or the s270.
The s270 right now fits my work flow with tapes SD,HD workflow and I'm after a shoulder mount.
I think the thing with these cameras for me is, at the end of the day, down converting to SD MPEG-2 DVD Format Via my NLE which is where my clients are sitting and which camera will give me the best result for the given budget.
I'm going through the same thing as you did and holding off and reading good and not so good things about these cameras.

Simon

[Robert Bec]

Simon what kind of video work do you mainly do.

[Simon Denny]

Hi Robert,

Most of my work is corporate functions, interviews, the occasional wedding and some outdoor doco style gigs.
With corporate gigs I might be following people around offices doing the meet and greet with various clients and this happens very quickly so lugging a set of sticks and getting a good positing with sticks in theses environment can be a tight squeeze, that’s why I think the s270 will help me in getting better handheld footage, well shoulder mount footage. Using the Z1 or any handheld camera for even just a few seconds comes with the shakes and this looks crap for the style of work I’m doing.

Simon

[Robert Bec]

Originally Posted by Simon Ash

Hi Robert,

Most of my work is corporate functions, interviews, the occasional wedding and some outdoor doco style gigs.
With corporate gigs I might be following people around offices doing the meet and greet with various clients and this happens very quickly so lugging a set of sticks and getting a good positing with sticks in theses environment can be a tight squeeze, that’s why I think the s270 will help me in getting better handheld footage, well shoulder mount footage. Using the Z1 or any handheld camera for even just a few seconds comes with the shakes and this looks crap for the style of work I’m doing.

Simon

I guess you have just answered your own question looks like the s270 is the camera for you.But sorry only reason i bought the Z7 was for the tape option plus my main work are weddings and the hours are long have you looked at the EX3 shoulder mount.