Zoom problem
 

I have reported this problem when I just got the camera (when I was filming at that casino) and I just saw another user complaining about it on Vimeo, has anyone else noticed this problem on their camera s well?

This is the video showing the problem:

Re: Zoom problem
 

Hi Noa

Would anyone actually zoom in and then immediately zoom out...I must admit I have noticed nothing but I will actually check my register signing shoots and cake cut shots which are the only time I will do a motion zoom combined with a tilt ..it's just to lead the viewer to a closeup of the marriage certificate and the knife slicing thru the cake.

It really isn't that bad and even noticeable at all..if it was then angry owners would have posted something by now. I'm sure if you look really hard you could find a few other issues too BUT would the viewer ever see it??

Saying it's a horrible lens problem is somewhat over the top I would say!!

EDIT: Just tested my camera and it doesn't do that jump or focus shift at all..both on the lens zoom lever or the power zoom rocker is silky smooth and reversing the zoom also is silky smooth. Maybe others need to test it?? To me my lens is 100% correct with no issues!!!

Chris

Re: Zoom problem
 

Thx Chris for the test, that's what I wanted to know so it might be that there are some "faulty" lenses? In my case I see exactly the same issue as that other user, there is some kind of play that gives this jerky motion and a very short defocus at the start of every zoom I do and that for zooming in and out.

Also, do you have the zoom set to variable or fixed speed?

Re: Zoom problem
 

I've sold my E PZ Zoom lens ... I never liked motion zoom in the first place. This may apply to ALL the EA50's but as stated, would you ever zoom in and out so quickly?

I think we are expecting TOOOOOO much from this camera. On some websites, it is stated the EA50 is a 'entry level' professional APS-C shoulder mount camera, which automatically tells me Sony are coming out with a more refined model by the end of the year which may eliminate aliasing, moire, and this problem you have shown.

Re: Zoom problem
 

Hi Noa

Mine I left at default cos I don't need a fast zoom..at the very worst case scenario if I forget to frame a shot I need to creep the zoom so it's not so noticeable. So zoom is on variable and speed is at 16 ...it's a little slow for most but OK for me!! Now, the Panasonics have a ramp speed at start and end so the zoom never stops but slows down gradually.... Try your cam at variable and speed 16 ..it might be OK ...a high speed setting might make it behave differently??

Hope yours is OK nevertheless!! I'll also test the 2nd camera when it arrives in a few days.

Chris

Re: Zoom problem
 

Mine does this - it's as if it's taking up some slack at the start of the zoom and letting it go again at the end! I use zooms for establishing shots/architecture at wedding venues so is a real problem for me

I got in touch with CVP who i bought the camera from and they told me to get in touch with Sony Prime Support which I intend to do soon

Re: Zoom problem
 

Pls let us know how that turns out Peter, to me it looks like a general problem as quite a lot users have reported the problem so far so they might benefit from the outcome you get as well. I checked it again yesterday and you see the lens pulling to the left at the start of a zoom.

Re: Zoom problem
 

It definitely pulls at the start of the zoom - every time!!

I will get in touch with Sony Prime Support today but then I'm on holiday for a week so will post their response when I get back

Pete

Re: Zoom problem
 

What you have demonstrated is something I have seen on the original SEL-18/200 kit lens that comes with the FS700. Seen it on three different cameras, mine included.

I believe all Sony cameras using this lens and its varients will exhibit the same behaviour. The EA50 uses the same lens basically but adapted to run with a power servo, the SELP variant. What you are showing is what I expected from this lens. Seeing that the lens is varifocal and not parfocal I guess that's part of the problem. I also guess that's why these lenses have such a glacially slow zoom speed, to allow the autofocus to track and keep up with the zoom speed. They appear to go out of focus just as you start the zoom, as though the autofocus has just woken up to the fact that it has a job to do.

In short I don't think there is anything wrong with the lens as such. AFAIK this lens design was for the NEX cameras for stills work where varifocal is not an issue. I think the only way around it for video is to not shoot and zoom at the same time. Very frustrating when you have been used to zooming with true parfocal Fuji and Canon broadcast lenses.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Zoom problem
 

Peter, does it do this jump at the start and stop of the zoom at any zoom speed? if so does it make a slow creep impossible other than in manual?
Rod

Re: Zoom problem
 

Rod ~

I don't know what Peter's experience is but in my experience the these lenses dip out of focus regardless of zoom speed or position. If in manual mode you follow the pretty common practice of zooming in, focusing and then zooming out... well that doesn't work as the lens goes out of focus. As is to be expected with a varifocal design.

In manual mode. Lets say you are on the wider end of the lens and you use the momentary auto focus button to focus on a subject then zoom in the image is well and truly out of focus. Press the momentary focus button again and the lens quickly and generally will re-focus correctly. Zoom out again and it is now out of focus, although hard to tell on the small screen. Press the momentary focus button again and it will establish a new focus setting. Zoom back in and its out again. In auto focus mode do a very s-l-o-w zoom and you can just about keep it in focus. In daylight it's not too bad in low light with the lens wide open it most noticeable due to the lack of DOF.

This being the case means that in full auto focus mode the lens is going to have to track the focus changes when you zoom. IMHO that's what you have to expect with this type of lens design.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Zoom problem
 

Same problem on a VG30 body I tried recently. My guess is the jerky zooming mechanism fooled the AF system into refocusing, assuming there had been slight movement in the already in-focus subject when in fact there had not. Maybe the encoder was fooled as well by the lateral shift of the subject but I couldn't tell.

Coming from using ENG cameras and later several Handycams from the lowly consumer HDR-CX series up to the EX1R I have to say the PZ zoom lens is very disappointing, to say the least.

Re: Zoom problem
 

Thanks Chris, but my question was probably not concise enough : It was not the auto focus that concerned me.
In that video there appears to be a lateral image movement both at the start and finish. I also see the search for focus going on and understand that.
I was more interested in this apparent lateral movement- or is it just an effect of focus hunting?

More importantly does it have this characteristic in manual focus/power zoom, or is it only in auto focus mode?
(I ask as a potential purchaser and this forum is a fab testing ground and is slowly helping me come to a decision).
EDIT: I missed Chris Harding's test results which are not showing this problem, so it looks like a lens/servo issue maybe?
Cheers!
Rod

Re: Zoom problem
 

Hi Rod

I never have done a zoom test at all...I don't seem to have a lens issue on either camera, probably due to the way I shoot ...I use my zoom for pre-shot framing 99% of the time and the problem has never come up on the very rare time I do zoom. I'm sure both my lenses have the problem but with my style it never shows.

Chris

Re: Zoom problem
 

Hi Chris, as you see I am still lurking! I must have misread your post, I thought you had auto zoomed for a trial- my bad as they say.

So , does that not make a creep zoom impossible other than in manual mode? you have to start and stop at some point and with this "kick" it would be impossible. I would not be able to work like that with a lot of my corporate stuff- a slow smooth creep is essential for me.. That's one thing my 160A does very nicely with the varizoom controller hooked up-syrup smooth)

Any further input from other 50 users? have you got a "kick" on zoom start/stop, and does it happen in auto and manual focus?

Cheers!
Rod

Re: Zoom problem
 

The only time I will creep zoom is when the couple cut the cake and I slowly zoom down to the knife and then back up again (combined with a tilt of course) and much the same during the register signing ... It's a sorta "edit in camera" saving a cut between the three shots.

I have never seen any jolt or shift during the footage so yes, for me doing a zoom creep is normal with no issues.

Ok, I tell a bit fib cos I reframe for the vows on 2nd cam too but that's more framing prior to recording so I don't watch the zoom progression at all ..only how much tighter I want the shot and I'm not recording yet!

I'm doing a civil wedding tomorrow so instead of stopping the camera I'll actually record the reframing zoom and see if I can spot the jump at all. Maybe this is a pixel peeper thing?? Do you guys think that anyone else can see the shift during the footage if you are NOT looking for it? I honestly haven't seen any shift/jump on my footage so maybe I'm simply not looking for it? If everyone else has it then it must be there or on at least one of my cameras?

Chris

Re: Zoom problem
 

Might that not be because you do mostly handheld shooting? In such a case there is always a little bit of movement going on and that twist at the start and end of a zoom doesn't notice, on a tripod at a fixed position it does show much more on my camera. I post some footage today where you can see the lens twisting to the side during the zoom.

Re: Zoom problem
 

Hi Noa

Good point ...I have the A-Cam on a tripod but as already mentioned I only do one zoom as they do their vows and it's usually the bit at a Catholic ceremony when the cam is stopped while they get into position so that's why I haven't seen it.

Tomorrow is a civil so the B&G stay in the same place and I often won't stop the camera to reframe when the vows start so I'll keep an eagle eye out for the jump/twist when I'm re-framing. During speeches I seldom need to re-frame the main cam as it's locked on the lectern so I wouldn't see it there at all.

I shall report back after the wedding!

Chris

Re: Zoom problem
 

Rod ~

The lateral movement. Just checked on the camera to replicate the issue. I notice it's worse if the lens 'Steadyshot' is turned 'on' in either 'Standard' or 'Active' modes'. I think it's a combination of the auto focus and the Steadyshot that causes most of that lateral shift. It appears least if the auto focus and and Steadyshot are both 'off.' In fact in the owners manual, page #90, it says turn Steadyshot 'OFF' when using the camera on sticks.

So many different modes on offer in using this somewhat unusual lens. It seems it's a matter of finding the right combo of settings to get the best results. Overall the lens is good value for what you pay for it as part of the kit but it does have some short comings as users are finding out.

Re buying an FS700, my two cents. I normally shoot on XDCam HD but with so many producers wanting this shallow DOF look these days I bought the FS to go along with the XDCam. I find the FS700 can achieve that desired shallow DOF look without breaking the bank. I use it primarily with a Nanoflash in MXF mode for interviews so the zoom issue thing is not big with me. For most interviews I use a manual prime lens and with those the 700 with a good PP setup can produce very good results. I find it a very worthwhile camera and it gets you away from all the drawbacks associated with the DSLRs, like short runtime, no decent audio I/O and control etc.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Zoom problem
 

I tried to film the "twisting" of the lens when you start to zoom but it's not that easy to capture it, it's just a very minor almost not visible movement which mainly shows at the long end of the zoom when you zoom back out.

Re: Zoom problem
 

I think its mainly the Steadyshot and this effect is evident on all my cameras if Steadyshot is ON. Its worst with the camera that has the greatest motion stabilization, my latest NX30U. If you do a pan on a tripod with Active Steadyshot on then nothing happens for a while then the pan starts and when panning is stopped the motion carries on and slowly comes to rest. Turn Steadyshot off and all has gone away. With Steadyshot on the camera will try and stay on the main focused subject as long as possible, when the limit is reached it starts to move and will bring subject to center of its range when you stop moving. Looking at large movements on my CX700 when walking or skiing occasionally it will snap to a new position so there may be absolute limits as well as working limits for movement. Likely a lot more complicated but that is how I look at it !!! Least pan effect is on my older cameras the SR11 and NX5U , XR500 is a little more obvious, then the CX700 and very obvious on the NX30U with its balanced stabilizer ( which by the way is incredible).

Ron Evans

Re: Zoom problem
 

Hi Guys

I certainly cannot see it on my CamA which is tripod mounted BUT steadyshot is off and focus is manual (I just use spot focus when it's on the tripod) All zooms seem 100% clean to me but then again I never go much more than around z00 - z30 so it's nowhere near the top end.

On the handheld CamB AF is on and std stabilization is on but again I see nothing!! I guess I don't zoom in enough to see it??

I tried it countless times at the wedding today/tonight !

Chris

Re: Zoom problem
 

Not on the stocklens from the ea50, in my case the ois is off and it's the lens itself that twists to the side at the start of of zoom.

Re: Zoom problem
 

Noa,

Are you saying there is torque or movement between the lens and camera body? It is a tight fit, how can it move? What are you seeing move?

Also: Turning all steady shot options OFF is standard procedure for ANY camera when mounted on a tripod. Panning with it on will make you crazy! You will stop at the perfect place for your subject and the image will drift right before your eyes all the way to the limit of the steady shot. It will also delay the start of your pans. This is not a fault or problem with steady shot, when your on sticks you don't need it anyway.

Steve

Re: Zoom problem
 

The problem is with the lens, the connection to the camera is solid.

Re: Zoom problem
 

Get Sony to replace the lens. I had problems with my NX5U lens and Sony just replaced the whole lens assembly under warranty. There were a series of early NX5U's that had a lens problem so it will not be the first time Sony has problems in early production.

Ron Evans

Re: Zoom problem
 

There is still a 2 year warranty on the camera, if it proves to be a design issue with the lens I probably will send it back at the end of the wedding season this year. However, if it proves to be "normal", then I won't have waisted any time sending the lens back with the info afterwards that it's ok as it is.

Re: Zoom problem
 

Here is a perfect example - the lens seems to lurch up and to the left at the start of each zoom - Steadyshot is set to 'off' and focus is set to manual - I think it may be a faulty lens

Re: Zoom problem
 

Hey Pete

Was that from full zoom or not..bear in mind that at full zoom the lens barrel is fully extended so with the extra length there is more chance of play being observed...I have never seen this on both cameras but then again I seldom zoom any more that 100mm and back to 18mm so the lens never extends enough to "wobble" like that.

Chris

Re: Zoom problem
 

Hi Chris - yes the zoom is at it's full extent there - the same thing occurs at other focal lengths but is not as noticeable - Here's an example of how I can get around it - Say I want to zoom out, I frame my shot, zoom out ever so slightly causing the lens to bump, press record and then complete the zoom! Once I've done a little 'pre-zoom' it's ok

It's like taking up the slack before actually executing my zoom!

Strange

Re: Zoom problem
 

I've noticed the same issue, just to add to the number of observed instances. This servo zoom is worse than any of the least expensive fixed lens camcorders I've used in recent years. It's a DSLR zoom that has been retrofitted with a servo motor. Having said that, this camera is still a tremendous value for the price. I continue to be amazed at the image quality compared to my Sony HVR Z7U and Panasonic HPX 170 (both of which can do a decent servo zoom if you are careful).

Re: Zoom problem
 

I agree Lee

It's a small price to pay for all the other features that are good and as long as you know about it you can work around it...certainly doesn't put me off at all. Just for interest, does using the zoom lever on the lens give the same result or is it caused only when using the zoom rocker? I wonder if you also get the same little shift working in manual. When I do zoom it's only from the centre range back to wide and I must admit I cannot see anything untoward on my footage.

Still love the EA-50!!

Chris

Re: Zoom problem
 

That's a strong possibility, I seem to remember that on the video preview on DSLR News Shooter | Making the real world look as good as cinema the Sony rep saying its part of the new EA series of Sony cameras. If I didn't hear it there I can't remember where. But it implies there will be another one

Re: Zoom problem
 

The image wobble at the start of a zoom or when the zoom changes direction really hit me between the eyes during my very first test shoot. It's like the lens elements shift relative to the sensor as the motor or gearing takes up some slack in the lens mechanism.

The workaround is to slightly 'pre-zoom' before hitting record but this is a pain. Live event camera operators will really struggle using the EA50.

Small maximum aperture, very slow zoom speed and this jerky zoom phenomenon mean the otherwise exciting EA50 is let down by a very disappointing lens. At least I can take it off when I've found a better alternative.

Re: Zoom problem
 

Just the fact that it can zoom motorised is unique for this type of lens as nothing else exists at that price range with that functionality, so that I wouldn't call it "dissapointing" but the wobble at the beginning of a zoom can indeed be annoying and for some type of registration make it usesless.
I won't be selling this lens, it's a good "allrounder" with a large focal range, I only wish it was a fixed f2.8 lens, that would have been sweet :)

Re: Zoom problem
 

To be honest I don't see the zoom problem with my ea50's. I do live events and never have I seen the zoom problems... Evenn using a ea50 on a crane with remote for "flybys" . Maybe its because I do multicam edit In post? I usually cut to crane shot after zoom has started. ...I would not go as far as saying live event operators will struggle... More like, we might have to adapt. ...

Re: Zoom problem
 

Hey Joel

Me too ... I have yet to see the issue but apparently it does exist! never had a problem at all so I guess it's simply the way we shoot ...I think Noa said that it's most noticeable when you zoom back from full zoom and I would seldom, if ever, be at full zoom on either camera.

The play in the mechanical section of the lens seems to be most noticeable when it's fully extended ..ie: zoomed out at 200mm which would make sense ....if you don't usually operate in that area you probably will never see the problem

Chris

Re: Zoom problem
 

All very fair comments. Thanks for sharing.

I am disappointed with the lens. Maybe I'm expecting too much. Part of my style for shooting sensitive interviews is to start wide and then zoom in very slowly as the speaker gets into is/her stride. I can't do that with this lens.

The kind of live event camera operators I work with don't have the luxury of doing anything in post. What they shoot goes direct to the big screen or is broadcast live.

Having bought the camera for its interchangeable power zoom, I expected to be able to zoom out and in at any point in the zoom's range without seeing a shudder in the image.

I accept that I am quite fussy though, and being an inexperienced film-maker I need help from my kit to improve my work, not problems I need to work around.

I'll stop whining now. I love so many things about this camera, I'll concentrate on those in future.

Re: Zoom problem
 

I think more ea50 buyers thought the lens was comparable in operation with a fix lens camera, like a pana ag-ac160, but it isn't. Eventhough that powerzoom is unique for a exchangeable lens (considering better options cost a lot more) the lens has several flaws, one of them also being that inaccurate electronical focusing, it's like feeling in the dark for a light switch.

Re: Zoom problem
 

It's a still camera lens with a servo zoom motor. I'm constantly tripped up when switching from other camcorders that I own to the EA50. The zoom and focus rings are reversed. On fixed camcorder and exchangeable lens camcorders focus is always the front ring.