Time to Replace Cameras -where to now?

[Chris Harding]

Very true Pete

I did an all day shoot on a school promo and it was brilliant as I had lots of time and my choices of camera positions too ... 90% was on stedicam so I could go where the light was good ..That doesn't happen at a wedding ..Yeah my receptions are better as well ...also the controlled light helps ..with ceremonies you are placed often in the far from ideal places!!

Even if you don't have AF running you can still half press the shutter on the A7S surely to grab focus?? That's more accurate and quicker than trying to get focus and also toggling the magnify function at the same time. Whatever I have done, the EA-50 has never given me really sharp outdoor footage but that's probably me not the camera!!

Chris

[Roger Gunkel]

Interesting comments Chris and reinforces what I always feel. I want to be able to leap straight in and grab a shot as soon as I see it, without having to worry about whether the camera is in focus the exposure is right or if I have to change the lens. I am not embarrassed to say that I use auto focus and exposure a lot of the time providing it is giving me exactly what I want.

My attention needs to be on the day not whether the equipment is functioning correctly or not, so total trust in my gear is paramount.

Roger

[Chris Harding]

Brides notice that too! I was on a wedding forum and when asked about her shoot she replied "the guy spent more time fiddling with his frigging camera than doing his job I paid him to do" If something good happens you need to be on it in a flash ... Back on the FZ1000 I notice it's startup time is a mere 0.9 seconds which is great when you are caught unwares ! I have often spotted the limo coming around the corner and turned on my camera and by the time it's ready to record the car has stopped ... lately I just leave it in standby otherwise it's easy to miss a shot!

[Anthony McErlean]

Originally Posted by Peter Rush

..I don't have the time to coax it to get the best out of it (am I making sense here?)
.

Perfect sense Peter :)

I took my RX10 with me just to give it a wee go at a wedding the other day.
I haven't had a good chance to use it at a wedding yet.
Anyway I was "futtering" with the ISO, white balance etc when the guests started coming into the reception room.
I decided to put it on full auto and let it record away on a light stand.
Nothing to loose, I was only experimenting with it anyway.
Boy was I wrong, the footage turned out great. and I was able to bang it into the timeline along with my other clips from the two other cameras.

[Steven Digges]

Hey Guys,

What I deleted was just a bad joke that could have been taken wrong. A couple of years ago Chris Hurd published an article I wrote about my career and i make fun of all of us with my satirical humor. But he has limits, and yes, I have been slapped on the keyboard a few times for both my bluntness and bad humor. To be clear on a few things: I don't need to yell at anyone here for anything. I do not fall in love with gear, cameras are just tools to me. I can not be insulted by what anyone says about the choices I make. What we each choose is and should be an important personal choice that meets are own needs. On this forum we are able to help each out by getting real word advice from each other from those who use what we may be considering. I think that is awesome.

Chris, You have said many times you have me pegged as an indoors shooter that works only from sticks. Yes I do work in ballrooms and I do shoot executive interviews and such. In reality I am an "event coverage" videographer to be more exact. What I shoot is not as far from a wedding as you may think. I shoot dark receptions from the shoulder, I shoot jeep tours in the desert, I have worked from horseback, on snowmobiles, from race cars, motorcycles, and watercraft. I have shot reality TV while suspended from a rope 200 feet off the ground for three hours. I worked for NASCAR auto racing for seven years covering a one mile oval track with both stills and video on foot or sometimes from a golf cart. Golf carts don't climb stadium stares : ) : ) :) Bottom line, I never know what I will be shooting next or how I will do it. Sorry, too much about ME.

Back on topic. You guys mentioned AF. Now that I have the Sony 18-105 F4 G lens for my EA50 I can tell you it finally made the EA50 what it should be. It follow focuses and is tack sharp. In fact it is so sharp and the image is so beautiful I can not match it with the old kit lenses. I have to match it with my canon L glass. The more I use it the more I like it. And being F4 instead of f2.8 like my Canons it is light and does not add all of that front weight the Canons do. It really is a dream lens for this camera.

I do not find the EA50 to be too heavy when I am shooting with it (most of the time). But all of the cases and bags and lenses and accessory's I deal with gets to be to much. I can load a truck. I know Noa can work out of a backpack and that blows me away! Here is what I don't get about your logic Chris. I think the ergonomics of the EA50 help save my train wrecked back because it is semi shoulder mount. If you go with a DSLR and just a lens I get it. But once "rigged" with audio, a light, and a cage, how is it going to help your back?

Steve

[Steven Digges]

Chris,

Edit: 6/20/15 This clip is poorly compressed and does not reflect the real footage.

The more I thought about that Sony F4 G the more I think it might help you. I know it is only F4 and that is slow but you’re not going to find the lightweight fast lens your dreaming about. What makes a lens fast is lots and lots of big heavy glass to let all that light in. But you know that. The Sony 18-105 G is constant aperture, lightweight, and native to the camera so everything works and no adapter weight either. It is a good compromise. You say 90% of your weddings are outdoors. Here is one.

Here is a clip of it follow focusing and I am zooming the whole time. First I am zooming in because part of my style is to always be as tight as possible. I am an old pro sports guy. Shooting tight is pounded into us. Then she almost got away from me so I mashed it full speed wide to finish the shot. I know, bad camera work, a person walking across a frame should never get to the left side like this, you should always be leading them but she grew wheels. But the G lens zooms fast and saved me. The old kit lens would not be capable of this shot, it would fail on follow focus and zoom speed. When it cuts to the second camera that is the original kit lens so you can see the difference. This is the original untouched footage so you can see it as shot. Both cameras are in auto exposure at 24P. I hate 24P but I gave it another try because I am editing on a new rig and premier is having audio problems in 60P, my preferred frame rate. Also, with my Canon L lens I would not have been confident enough to zoom so tight and manually follow focus her moving so fast. So the Sony 18-105 G was the only lens I had to get the shot I wanted. I never thought I would sound so glowing about this lens. I was skeptical at first but take a look for self. It is NOT a kit lens.

This is from the only wedding I have ever done, it was a few weeks ago. As you guys say it was fast and I worked my tail off as a SPC. Yes, I missed my truckload of gear and a four man crew ;-)

Steve

Password is: Sony Lens
The Vimeo compression really makes it flat. I shot it with no profile so it is not that flat.

Private Video on Vimeo

[Michael Liebergot]

Steve just a note about the lens comparison between the two cameras. I do agree that the 18-105 g is sharper than the older stock lens. However I wonder if the image from the second camera is softer due to the excess sun glare shooting from that angle.

I resurrected an old post the Chris posted a while back about EA50 focus issues with sunlit backlighting outdoors. I experienced the same issue with the 18-105 lens recently when i had to shoot a speech at noon in a room with windows all around. So I had to shoot the speaker with a sheer curtain pulled and backlight issues.

I shot with 2 cameras, one being a Sony NX5U which was sharp as a tack. My EA50 had an issues getting proper focus and I as even informed with peaking that the camera was focused. Got home reviewed the footage and nope not in focus. So I wonder if some of the soft image might be attributed to the sunlit angle the second camera was shooting and not being able to focus correctly.

Just a thought.

BTW I'm watching this thread closely as I am looking to add a DSLR to the mix with my EA50M, which I love,a s I finally got the form factor that I can shoot comfortable with all day long. I want a small camera for moments like preparations and detail shots (with slider, gimbal etc) where the EA50 is too bulky to use. But for me the form factor of the EA50 is a pleasure to use.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Steve

I actually tried a wedding a while back with no profile and the blacks were so crushed that I lost all the detail in the guy's black suit BUT that was an indoor wedding last July which is Winter and it was raining. I still find the camera gives me a soft image most times we do an outdoor sunny wedding ... even when it's not backlit ... maybe the answer is somewhere but I haven't found it yet! It's mainly on the fixed camera that is around 20' from the couple ...If I do cutaways much closer of the guests it's sharp. I can look at the footage with my little SJ4000 action cam and it's stunning which is somewhat annoying as the SJ4000 cost $100 and My EA-50 cost $4000!!! I even gone to the extent of swopping cameras over and making the A-cam the B-Cam and viceversa and there is no difference ... Michael has also noticed that his NX5 had much sharper footage than the EA-50 in bright light. Maybe one needs a heavy ND filter the moment you go outside ?? I have no idea ... Does the NX5 have ND filters??

When I mention "cage" that would be a simple aluminium frame just to provide somewhere to mount wireless receivers onto and that would always be on a tripod .... Handheld might have a bracket if a video light is required for the first dance but that's about it .... Currently I have a handheld/shoulder mount camera which is a delight to use until you put a fast lens up front! Then it becomes a heavy monster. The new lens however looks a lot lighter so the body would be better balanced.

For now I'm playing with options (I have 8 clear weeks before the next wedding) and annoying you guys

At least I feel a bit better that Michael has discovered the fact that his camera does have a soft focus when the light is tricky .... It would be interesting to see the EA-50 and the NX5 compared in bright light and then see if the EA-50 in fact does need something done to it in bright light or backlight??

Chris

[Steven Digges]

Michael, I am aware of that other thread and responded to you there about a week ago.

Next:
First, the clip I posted is not a fair comparison of sharpness for the two lenses because I DID miss focus a little bit. The bride and groom were not in place when I set up the shot. No one was there but the trestle. When they took their marks in front of the officiant (the guy with the beard) they were clearly soft because they were out of depth of field. The original kit lens is sharper than that clip shows. I do not consider it a soft lens. I consider it a cheap kit lens, it can not stand up next to a Canon "L" series lens or a Sony "G" lens. But if you take it for what it is I have defended it several times. It is not a bad lens, it is a KIT lens.

Second, cameras do not generally have "focus issues" because of differing lighting conditions without an explanation. Focus is up to the SHOOTER not the camera. I missed focus because I was not behind the camera as it should be! I think you guys are missing focus because you are counting to much on peaking in tough lighting. It is up to your eye to confirm proper focus through proper monitoring and tools such as expanded focus. Focus is not a function of the camera, it is up to you. You have a long thread about so called "focus problems with the camera" but no where in that thread do you say "I absolutely visually confirmed focus and then when I went to post it was soft". You are talking about the cameras focus aids in tough lighting and then blaming the camera. Focus is your job, not the cameras. There is also the real world case that you guys may be experiencing lens diffraction. That may even be likely.

Chris, You have defended your cameras picture quality and many other things for two years. I find it peculiar, now that you are done with them you are repeatedly saying your $100.00 Chinese go-pro knock off with a ultra wide angle plastic lens is out shooting your EA50. Really? I would think that if that was consistently the case you would have been on this forum screaming very loudly saying "Help my $100.00 POS out shoots my pro rig!" I have not heard you say that until this thread.

Now, with all that said, I could be wrong. Maybe my bride and groom were soft because I did experience exactly what you guys are talking about. In which case I will eat a lot of crow. But I don't think so. How can you adjust critical focus when you are not even behind the camera? I always blame myself first until otherwise proven. I have seen a million situations where guys want to blame gear for everything, not me, I look at myself first.

Steve

[Chris Harding]

Hi Steve

If you look back to April you will see I was having issues with focus. No it's not the camera or lens but I feel it might be that the peaking is inaccurate! Ok, so that's an operator error sort of but not really as I'm using peaking and checking the peaking carefully in both 4X and 8X expanded focus modes. As an operator I'm trusting the peaking to be accurate ... this is as previously said, ONLY in bright light ... indoors I have no issues at all and the focus is sharp as a tack. What do you figure the problem is??? You obviously pre-focussed before you left the camera so it was in focus as far as you were concerned.

It's not a DOF issue either as I have tested using an F2.8 aperture and high shutter right up to F16 and it all looks much the same to me. Sorry but your entire video from either angle definitely looks soft to me ..that's just a friend to friend observation ..Go indoors and I bet it's way way sharper!! Your vimeo clip with the dentist talking about not being able to make a conference? What that the EA-50?? That footage is razor sharp!!!

[Roger Gunkel]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi Steve

If you look back to April you will see I was having issues with focus. No it's not the camera or lens but I feel it might be that the peaking is inaccurate! Ok, so that's an operator error sort of but not really as I'm using peaking and checking the peaking carefully in both 4X and 8X expanded focus modes. As an operator I'm trusting the peaking to be accurate ... this is as previously said, ONLY in bright light ... indoors I have no issues at all and the focus is sharp as a tack. What do you figure the problem is??? You obviously pre-focussed before you left the camera so it was in focus as far as you were concerned.

It's not a DOF issue either as I have tested using an F2.8 aperture and high shutter right up to F16 and it all looks much the same to me. Sorry but your entire video from either angle definitely looks soft to me ..that's just a friend to friend observation ..Go indoors and I bet it's way way sharper!! Your vimeo clip with the dentist talking about not being able to make a conference? What that the EA-50?? That footage is razor sharp!!!

I understand what Steve is saying Chris, but isn't that the whole point? If you are struggling to get what you want from the camera, it really makes no difference whether it is the camera or the operator. You only get one chance with many shots at a wedding so if you are missing or spoiling shots it may well be time for a rethink.

As I have said before, I really need to have total confidence in my cameras and my ability to get exactly what I want instantly and accurately. If you haven't got that confidence in the camera then your are constantly upping the stress levels, particularly with weddings.

Roger

[Chris Harding]

I get you loud and clear Roger and that's exactly what is going on ...I have enough issues at weddings with the couple and the guests to keep me busy so I don't want to have to worry about technical issues on top of that. Ok point and point isn't exactly frowned on here but I think people expect you to be a little bit of a tech head. If a point and shoot full auto camera allows me to get better content (and we KNOW that content makes or breaks a wedding) then I have no shame in using it in that mode.

Even on my EA-50's the camera is in full auto all the time!! The only thing I have to do is focus and push the button which is the way I want it ...If Sony had a 17-70mm F1.8 lens in e-Mount I would be using autofocus too!!! Do I care that I'm not running everything in full manual like an expert? Hell no if that gets me better content then I'll do it that way! If shooting with 4 GoPros gives me great wedding content I have no issues using them for weddings. An experienced wedding videographer with a Handicam is likely to get better footage than a novice with a Red Epic. I actually had a bride once who booked me instead of the guy that did her sisters wedding because (her words) "he spent more time fiddling with his frigging camera than doing what he was paid for" (Oops sorry I have already used that quote but it does push home a point!!)

I think that is a good enough reason for me to use the camera that suits me best

[Steven Digges]

Thanks Chris,

I just looked at the clip I posted above. I blew it someplace, it is very soft. I will have to look at my export setting and vimeo settings, that's where I went wrong, I was in a hurry and just banged it out. You can not judge anything from that clip, the footage does not look anything like that.

I do not keep that Vimeo page up to date. The testimonial video you said was sharp is about eight years old. It is from my DV tape days and was shot using two Canon XL2s. That is why there is even some really old 4x3 stuff on there.

When I get time I might start a thread and tell you what happened at that wedding. You will get a kick out of hearing all the things that fell apart. Including audio! I am the one that is always trying to be helpful here with audio because it is something I am pretty knowledgeable about. This one did not go that way but that's another story.

Focusing outside in sunlight is always more difficult than indoors. Also, I am under the impression you have a great fondness for wide angle lenses. That adds another layer of difficulty. Even though they have tremendous DOF I find it is always harder to visually confirm proper focus because of the lack of detail. For example with a telephoto you can focus on the eyes. If your wide you can barely see the eyes. What focal length are you at for the ceremony shots your having trouble with? I am sincerely trying to help you. Obviously I don't think it is a camera problem. I'm wondering if you counting to much on a huge DOF and missing it because you can't visually confirm it well enough in sunlight. Even at wide angles, out of focus is out of focus. If you miss just a little you get a big DOF that is soft all the way through. Do you have an external monitor? With a hood they can help some, even outside.

Steve

[Aaron Jones Sr.]

Wow, quite the thread I missed. Chris, I'm interested to see what you sell the EA50 for. I sold mine and ended up piecing it out, smart adapter, body, Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8, lanc control, and carry bag. I got $1800 for the lot. I could have held out for more but I needed to move on and go forward.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Aaron

Not really just lots of discussion mainly about Panasonic's new bridge camera. I think you are correct about piecing the EA-50 when you sell it ...it works a lot better as people can choose what they want and you are more likely to get buyers that know what they are talking about.

It also gives me a chance to go thru my cupboards and put all the other stuff on ebay that's lying there gathering dust. Hmmm I think I MIGHT be asking a bit much for the EA-50 bodies only?? I have them up for $1800 and that's just the bodies ! I'm not too fussed about price ..as long as I'm not seriously out of pocket, I'm happy!!

Hope the FS100's are doing well???

Chris