I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Im thinking of getting the Nex7 rather than the VG20.

What does the VG20 offer me, besides "longer" recording time? huh?

Ive been shooting with the Nex 5N..and it takes great video and stills. Maybe the 5N is all I need...and just put money into better lenses/accessories etc. Music vids/commercials/interviews...would all be clips less than the time limit of the NEX 5N OR 7

I have a XHA1 Canon, should I need to shoot long events, with a lot of image manipulation features, actually much more than the VG20.

Any comments on this logic?

Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

VG20

More expensive longer lens with active Steadyshot
Built in viewfinder which can be angled up
Manual Gain Control
Hard buttons for Focus white balance iris etc
Zebras
Good Sound built in
Cold shoe and alpha flash shoe
AV/Lanc socket
LCD now rotates fully around
Remote control
2 recording buttons on body and touch button on lcd
Larger Long lasting Battery
Touch Spot meter
Touch Focus
Touch Focus/Spot meter (one function)
Mic/headphone jack
Frame picture without pressing record (unlike NEX5, which does not show the video crop until pressing record
Less waiting time in between stopping and starting video button
IMO more comfortable body shape for traditional filming

Paul

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

In short its designed for video shooting, not stills.

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Thanks for your comments.

The advantages I see over my Canon A1 are
........tapeless recording
........Lighter weight, easier to handle. which is a big plus for me.
........an extra shoe
........better match to my 5N ? less CC in post
........interchangeable lenses (but I could shoot those clips with the 5N..the A1 has 20x zoom)
........better HD resolution
........60P
__________________________________________________________________


Still thinking. I may just have to order one so that I can "get some rest" ha

Thanks for posting,
Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

The fact is thay many people think the NEX-7 is a cheap replacement for the VG20, Im not so sure about it myself and to be honest the NEX-7 looks to small to produce any useable shots while shooting handheld.

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

@ Chris Law

This is a tuff decision for me. I wish money were not an issue...Id just buy them all and be done with it. ha

Im, for once, trying to NOT fall prey to the hype and consider my options using what I have.

Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Oh I'd think the VG20 wouldn't be much better in that regard - it's a tiny camera. Pretty much every large sensor camera out there needs some sort of rig for hand held stuff. Of course, there's a million and one companies providing such gear (and good DIY solutions as well).

What about battery life? One of my large gripes about the Canon T2i is short battery life. When you have a DSLR all kitted out, only to have to remove it from the rig to switch batteries, it gets old REAL fast. Of course, the battery is easier to get to on the 20 regardless.

Clearly the VG20 would be better suited for taking video, however the lack of controls is a very large issue.

One other question I have regarding the VG20 - does the HDMI out generate a 4:2:2 or a 4:2:0 signal?

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

I'd be careful making assumptions about the resolution of the VG20/NEX-7 being that much greater than your XHA1 without seeing some tests. Certainly, the 1080/60p will have more temporal resolution, but spatially the XHA1 is already at 800 lines which is pretty darn good, especially considering its HDV spec 1440x1080 native raster. The VG20 may or may not show much improvement over that, one reason is that the sensor is covered by a bayer filter that the 3 chip XHA1 is not. The XHA1 is also good about not introducing moire into the image and has lots of image controls. A large point in favor of the VG20 would be the expected advantage in low light situations, and of course shallow depth of field which may or may not be of advantage, great for cinema but harder to maintain focus.

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

@ Tom...

The A1 has and is serving me well. Im sure a technical shootout under sufficient light, withe the A1 & VG20, the A1 would win.

Both the A1 and VG20 have attributes the other is missing. The A1 has nearly unlimited control over the video, but lacks interchangeable lenses. The VG20 may be better in low light, but limited control over the video.......you get the idea.

My point was, the Nex 5N, fills the gaps between the two cameras. It has interchangeable lens capability and is good in low light. So do I really want to invest in the VG20, pay out $2k, when I can do basically the same thing with the A1/5N combo......with a little more work in CC.

Im watching the reviews of the VG20 and hoping the firmware will be backdated to put back the control and presets as originally advertised.

Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

More expensive longer lens with active Steadyshot <<< IMO, not a great lens. The point is buy the 18-55 and then buy primes. One is shooting cinema.

Manual Gain Control <<< It's called ISO as is the case with Cinema cameras

Cold shoe and alpha flash shoe

Touch Spot meter <<< don't know about 7 but the 5n has it

Touch Focus <<< don't know about 7 but the 5n has it

Touch Focus/Spot meter (one function) <<< don't know about 7 but the 5n has it

Mic/headphone jack <<< NEX-7 only

Frame picture without pressing record (unlike NEX5, which does not show the video crop until pressing record <<< Set PHOTO to 16:9 to fix this.

IMO more comfortable body shape for handheld shooting. Much better camera stability.

IMO, large-sensor products are CAMERAS -- not CAMCORDERS even if you put it in a "camcorder." shape.

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

By the chart I shot, and matched against the 5D, I am guessing the VG20 will come in somewhere around 700 lines or less.

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

More expensive longer lens with active Steadyshot <<< IMO, not a great lens. The point is buy the 18-55 and then buy primes. One is shooting cinema.
********IMO a good general purpose stock lens over a wide focal length - can't be that bad as the FS100 comes with the same lens, no active steadyshot on 18-55, only normal. you can buy body only if lens not req.

Manual Gain Control <<< It's called ISO as is the case with Cinema cameras ***** VG20 GAIN control can be worked as you shot through the viewfinder, the ISO on the 5n is deep in the menu

Cold shoe and alpha flash shoe***** 5n only has contacts for dedicated NEX flash or viewfinder at extra cost

Touch Spot meter <<< don't know about 7 but the 5n has it *******only face detection on 5n no dedicated function

Touch Focus <<< don't know about 7 but the 5n has it ******5n is only Active touch focus with a mind of its own, not the same a fixing focus at a certain point as the VG20 will do

Touch Focus/Spot meter (one function) <<< don't know about 7 but the 5n has it, ***** not on my 5n?

Mic/headphone jack <<< NEX-7 only, **** VG20 very good built in mics plus jacks

Frame picture without pressing record (unlike NEX5, which does not show the video crop until pressing record <<< Set PHOTO to 16:9 to fix this. ********Yes but If you then want to take a quick 16m still picture as its a camera first you have to dive back into the menu to reset to 3-2 ratio

IMO more comfortable body shape for handheld shooting. Much better camera stability.

IMO, large-sensor products are CAMERAS -- not CAMCORDERS even if you put it in a "camcorder." shape.[/quote]********* the VG20 is now very much VIDEO camera both in shape and function, menu and features, stills are there but very much take a back seat, it's says HANDYCAM on the body

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Hi Chris,

Ive been watching your videos using the Canon 5Dmkii and the tests of the VG20. Do you feel the VG20 can match the quality of the 5D once you get use to using the camcorder?
Im impressed with the video you shot with the 5D..especially the rich look of this one and others.

the Dead of Winter...Choices Made

I realize the limitations of the 5D, short recording time and others, but I love the look of the video.
Im anxious to see a similar video made with the VG20..please post any clips of a production you're starting with the VG20.

p.s. Ive never atemped to shoot a film. Would it be possible to get a copy of this screen play written by Ellen Martinez to experiment with?

Thanks,
Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Jeff:

I will see if I can track it down. That was a few years back. Ellen is actually my sister. She may have it too.

Meantime, download the Celtx script writer here, Its free, and helps you produce a real looking script.

Celtx - #1 Choice for Media Pre-Production

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Jeff

Re: Your question on the 5D v. VG 20

I think right now that the VG will be as good as the 5D, if not a bit better in the noise department. I am looking at shooting another one of these for the DVChallenge in next couple weeks. Its a lot of fun. I have been doing it for years now and you learn something big every time you do one.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/dvc-uwol...e-sign-up.html

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Chris...
Thanks for the link to the script writer. I hope you can find your sister's script...she did a good job on that and Im sure on others.

I admire the videos I've seen of yours and others using DSLRs.
I know you put a lot of work into the contests, but, like you said, it's both fun and you learn along the way.

Ive always shot video with large camcorders. Ive enjoyed shooting with my new Nex 5N, in that it's so small and easy to use over the large XHA1. Using it has lead me toward DSLR's rather than another camcorder. I want to shoot music vids and cinema, so the clips will be short. This new experience makes me undecided as to go with the VG20 or a DSLR (5D or Nex7)

Im wondering if "you" will miss the small size of your 5D when you start shooting the next contest video. From what Ive seen you got great shots and quality with the 5D...including the audio.

I can see why the VG20 would appeal to those shooting weddings and long events, but I have my Canon XHA1 for those.

still thinking,
Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Jeff:

Not much difference in size or weight of the two. I will post a picture of the two next to each other.

In addition, with the 5D, for narrative films, I have to record and synch separate sound. With the VG20, I hook up a DSLR adapter, and I am feeding the camera. Other things that are good that the 5D doesnt't

Flip out screen to shoot from low and high angles.
Clean HDMI monitoring.
Monitoring does not shut down LCD.
Adjustable sound levels.
View Finder
excellent on camera mic.

I think the only place the 5D beats it is in the Picture Style category. You essentially only have two styles to choose with no ability to modify, while the Canon gives you unlimited.

Don't get me wrong. I have a great fondness for the 5D and will continue to use it. With the Picture style capability, it will be used in toughp shooting situations still But if I can make this VG20 work in my edit flow, it will likely become the workhorse.

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

You guys have experienced a lot more history of Sony cameras than me......

Since most feel the 5N capabilities would be easy to put back into the VG20, do you feel Sony will do that or not.

Im wondering if the "default" video of the VG20 is a match to default video on the Nex 5N, assuming the same WB of course. If so, that would still make a great shooting combo. Any "looks" could be done in post.

Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

I don't think so, The VG20 shares the same chip and mount of the NEX, but the firmware, interface and features are clearly moved over to the Video side and have more in common with the NX70 and CX700.
The VG20 is positioned at the top of the Handycam family, next step up would be the NX70 which is the entry pro NEXCAM and that does not have any sharpness, colour or contrast control as well.
What muddles the waters is that Sony used the same body for both the 10 and 20, but they really are quite different under the hood, the 10 works like a NEX5 and the 20 has the heart of a handycam.
I think if Sony had not had the earthquake, the Vg20 would have had a style makeover as well.

As for matching the 5N for colour the Vg20 has the same Sony 'China blue' sky, but perhaps a bit more saturated, The 5n's Vivid or landscape mode is very similar

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Attached is PDF of that script you wanted to see.

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Thanks so much Chris...thank Ellen for me.

I put the script on one side of my laptop screen and the movie on the other, interesting to watch the movie and read the script as it played.
That 5D looked good. Just hope the VG20 can do the same. I think my 5N could match the clips..will experiment more with it.

Now if I can just get the grand kids off the video games. haha

Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

______________________________________________________________________________________

Maybe then, the VG10 is a better match for the NEX 5N than the VG20??

BTW...there is still no stock of VG20s(with lens) at B&H, but Sony is selling direct. Wonder what's up with that? Maybe B&H is holding off ordering stock due to the chatter?

jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Jeff, the VG10 is an older sensor, with lower pixel count... I'd almost guarantee it would be a WORSE choice with the 5n, even if the scene presets were similar...

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

To Dave..
Your are probably right on Dave...

My excitement that the VG20 and Nex 5N would be a perfect match is over. I would still have to CC one or the other most likely...even shooting "default" with both.

For now, I will use the 5N-XHA1 combo and live with it. Who knows what will happen in the market over the next year.

Im tired and need a Bud Light,

Adios,
Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

I certainly appreciate all of the testing and information that Chris has provided - but it is interesting that there have been several hands-on English language reviews/previews of the NEX7 (a camera that is not shipping yet), and zero English language reviews/previews of the NEX-VG20, a camera that has been shipping for several weeks!

A few examples of what's out there on the NEX7, which Sony very helpfully provided to widely-read sites prior to the ship date:

DC Resource review: Sony Alpha NEX-7 Review | Digital Camera Resource Page
The Camera Store (Canada) video hands-on field test: https://www.thecamerastore.com/blog/...nds-field-test
Luminous Landscape first impressions report: Sony NEX-7 First Impressions

I will make my purchase decision (GH3, VG20 or NEX7) in a few months, so it's not a crisis -- but Sony's seeming disinterest in marketing this camera is frustrating and hard to figure.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Agreed...."lack of interest"...or maybe re-considering firmware, with all the negative chatter going on here and other places.

Im "loving" my Nex 5N...hard to believe the Nex 7 could be better.
BTW...I found this is an old house we were looking at

Pentax-A 50mm F1.2 Reviews - A Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

Made my day. ha

Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

It's simple really, Sony has limited sensor production capabilities, the NEX5N is a HUGE hit, as the A77/NEX7 look to be... the market for photography is a LOT bigger, and they know it. Where do you put your production and promotion?

The interesting question is where will Sony go with the handycam/videocamera lines now? WIth some pretty high quality from their P&S line this year (60p no less), and the crossover from the NEX line, the good old plain vanilla video camera is starting to look a little out of place for all but event shooters...

Perhaps that's a bit extreme, but you have to sell a certain volume to make ROI ends meet, and I have to wonder how much cannibalizing is taking place when EVERY camera shoots video? There's already been talk of how the smart phone, with 8-10MPixel cameras and HD video, is killing the market for cameras... add to that the crossover feature cameras, and most people really won't see the need to buy a video camera AT ALL...

How many "soccer moms and dads" have or will buy a NEX5/5n - heck I saw them on the shelf at TARGET! How many of those same people will buy a VG10 or 20, or even know it exists...?

The NEX/E mount serves as an opening door for some interesting new niche cameras like the VG series, but it's a VERY limited market, one with rather high expectations.

The best Sony can do is to listen to feedback, and "tick the boxes" for the limited market that might buy this camera. IMO, the VG10 largely failed, and it seems now somehow they forgot to leave a lot of capabilities from the NEX 5N in the VG20...

And as a practical matter, IF Sony produced what many have called the "NEX6", a theoretical (and no indication Sony will produce this beast) combo of the 16Mpixel chip from the 5N with the body of the NEX7... at around the $1K price point (easily doable)... I know I'd buy 2 at least, without even a second thought, and would be fine using them for almost any shoot!

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Dave,
Well said, and I agree.
"on with the show",

Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Dave - I might agree with you, but there were English language hands-on previews of the NEX-FS100 months before it shipped:

Den Lennie's video blog: NEX FS 100 Video Blog - Sony NEX-FS100 Super 35mm User Group on Vimeo
Demo footage from Doug Jensen at Vortex Media with pre-production FS100: Vortex Media's Sony NEX-FS100 Demo Footage - Sony NEX-FS100 Super 35mm User Group on Vimeo
Sony senior product manager walks viewers through the FS100: Sony FS100 with Juan Martinez from Sony - Sony NEX-FS100 Super 35mm User Group on Vimeo

In my view, the VG20 fumble is marketing incompetence in the consumer camcorder division, not a calculated corporate strategic decision.

As in most of human affairs, Hanlon's Razor probably applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." ;-)

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

In my view, the VG20 fumble is marketing incompetence in the consumer camcorder division, not a calculated corporate strategic decision.

As in most of human affairs, Hanlon's Razor probably applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." ;-)

Perhaps neither.

Whenever there is a shortage of parts one introduces a product in the smallest market first.

PS: Juan spent almost a year in Japan working the FS100.

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

I recently saw a video shot in the late evening with the NEX 5, and noticed that when headlights were in the video, there was an inverted reflection of a different color off to one side. It was very prominent and distractive. Is this phenomenum(sp) normal with all video cams?

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Likely lens flare - will be lens dependent, or can come from a filter mounted in hopes of achieving some other purpose...

Basically it's your standard "reflection" off of one glass surface, bouncing onto another glass surface, creating a "ghost" image that is then picked up by the sensor, which doesn't get to pick and choose what's in the field of view coming through the glass...

And it's a potential problem with ANY camera when faced with strong light sources entering the lens, to varying degrees. Coatings and lens configurations can REDUCE or practically eliminate the problem, thus why you see it with some cameras/lenses more than others.

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Duh. Sometimes I feel so stupid. Of course it is lens flare, I should've know that. Thanks for the refresher.

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

I hate to sound like a broken record, and it's a little embarrassing to quote myself - but I've been doing some research and this situation is also very different from the rollout of the VG10, which was announced on July 13th, 2010 and shipped on September 10th, 2010.

In August 2010, Luminous Landscape published this field report

On August 18th, Digital Camera Review published this first look review.

On August 23rd, Canadian retailer, The Camera Store posted a hands-on review video with sample footage.

These early reviews were posted because Sony put the camera into the hands of well-known English-language sites. Something they are not doing this time around.

I don't care whether it's incompetence or some sort of strategic decision about cannibalizing other products, potential customers need more information on the VG20. I am seriously planning to rent the camera and review it myself.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

@ Bill......

Renting is a good idea. Let me know if you find rentals available. I think Chris, said he is keeping his VG20 for renting out. You may check with him.

As Ive posted I own the NEX 5N and its fabulous. But....it's not a video camera, nor will the Nex 7.
The VG20 as spec'd would have been the perfect combo to the 5N or 7. Look at the potential Sony would have selling the VG20 to both the consumer and semi-pro shooters. Seems to me it could be thousands of units.

Oh well..will hold off purchasing for now. Im sure Canon and others are watching the threads and planning to fill the gap.

p.s. Got my first "prime" lens for my 5N (50mm 1.2) and the cheap adapter from China. It works perfectly..blew me away. Talking about shallow D.O.F. !

Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Today I am shooting a film for the DVChallenge charity event here at DVInfo. I will be using the VG20 only, so I will get a good feel for how its going to work in shoot and post production.

Haven't started renting yet, I am still trying to get some kind of response out of Sony. In response to a new email support request, I got a referral to customer relations. I will try talking to them on Monday.

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Good luck on your shoot Chris please keep us informed
Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Looks like it might be. Here is a nice little film shot on the VG20 and 5N -- from Martin Tank in the Netherlands:


Hope this is helpful, Jeff.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

Thanks that did look good.
It matched perfectly with the five and that's exactly what I want to do

I'm going to hold off till after the first of the year
Thanks for posting the link

Jeff

Re: I think the Nex 7, instead of the VG20?
 

I shot my first Event (Christmas parade) using the Nex 5N...my first experience shooting an event with a DSLR.

I have to confess using the 5N and a small rig made shooting the event a pure pleasure. Ive always lugged around a XHA1 or other heavy camcorder, a tripod and other accessories. Today I had my near weightless 5N with kit lens, a belt clip with a 16mm,extra battery and disks. I shot the parade assembly with interviews, and then went street side to shoot clips as the parade passed by.

It was sooooo easy to hold, move around, and not the least tired after 2 hrs of moving and shooting. The video on the LED looked beautiful. Shot all in manual, and had no problem making small adjustments to exposure and focus. I used the LCD the whole time in bright sunlight and had no problem seeing well enough to focus using the peaking function. The "flip up/down" lcd screen was a God send. It allowed shooting from over head to below waist shots and still view the screen. I should have took my extending monopod for even higher angles.

I think this experience has convinced me, for my use, the DSLR may be the way to go...especially the Sony 5N and 7N. Those that complain about the weight of lugging the 5D around, must have never used a Canon XHA1 ha. I could carry 3 or 4.. 5Ns and still be comfortable. Even though I might look a little silly. ha

Jeff

Will post some stills of the video tomorrow.

my 2 cents,
Jeff