VG 30 & Power Zoom 18-200 mm

[Khoi Pham]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Wonderful video comparing 5D III with BMCC. It shows what I mean by fine detail and they use my favorite word "clarity."

Working with BMCC log 12-bit ProRes is very EZ.

ProVideo Coalition.com: TecnoTur by Allan Tépper

That video is not a very fair comparison, he graded the BMCC but not the Mark3, for sure Mark3 can't compete with that camera but he made it looks so much better, everybody knows that Mark 3 is soft with heavy aliasing filter, it needs a little sharpening in post and it will look very nice but he compared raw footage of Mark 3 to graded footage of BMCC, very bias comparison.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Wonderful video comparing 5D III with BMCC

I think you are side tracking this thread because it's about the vg30, probably Chris his Black magic shuttle clip has gotten you confused :)

[Werner Graf]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I think you are side tracking this thread because it's about the vg30, probably Chris his Black magic shuttle clip has gotten you confused :)

yes thats funny sidestepping

[Joe Ogiba]

[quote=Paul Rickford;1753666]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

These cameras have been measured by dozens of reviewers and they tend to be about 750-850 lines.Soft compared to the 1000 line EX1. If you understood single chip tek you would know why. Plus the crazy ergonomics for those who don't want dozens upon dozens of photo features and menus.

Steve
The VG10 had its faults but I have had hours of lovely clean sharp film like footage from the VG20, a very underated cam, when I purchased mine I could not find any proper tech reviews and still cant, would like some links to those dozens of reviews please

I think both the VG30 and VG900 are worthwhile 3rd generation upgrades to the VG line, the new viewfinder taken from the nex7 and now 24p as well as 25p on the pal model may sway me alone.

The VG900 interests me perhaps more, real question before I jump that needs to be answered is will the NEX APS cropped mode images out of the new 24m chip be as good or better than the current VG20 or will suffer compared to the full frame for which its geared. Interestingly Sony have not as yet released any pictures or video showing the VG900 with a NEX lens in place or use even though its a e-mount cam.

Since the VG900 ships the the A mount adapter that must be the reason why they only show it with full frame A mount lenses. If all you want to use is E mount lenses the VG30 is half the cost .

"You Can Use Cheap Lenses!

I get better results on full-frame with crummy lenses than I do with my very best lenses on DX.

Having bigger pixels on a larger format means you can use cheaper lenses and usually get better results than the best lenses on a smaller format. The only reason I use the weasel word of "usually" is because as of 2007 we're only talking about a 1.6x linear format difference among consumer (under $9,000) DSLRs. In film, with a 2x linear difference from one format to the next, the crappiest lens on the next bigger format always smokes the very best lens on the next smaller format."

The Full-Frame Advantage

[Jaime Espiritu]

I got a call from a customer who wants me to record her speech presentation. I currently have a Panasonic GH1.

I know on the HDSLR you really can't follow the presenter.

I'd like to know if this is a good camera to follow the speaker on stage. I just want to make sure that if a presenter decides to move around, I can follow her without constantly re-focusing the lens.

The stage is small and I'm having lighting for this.

Any thoughts?

[Noa Put]

Then you need to close down your iris as much as possible to increase the depth of field, or use a small sensor handicam.

[Jaime Espiritu]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Then you need to close down your iris as much as possible to increase the depth of field, or use a small sensor handicam.

I'm renting the VG30 so it sounds like this camera is a good candidate then?

[Noa Put]

I don't have that camera so can't give you teh right advise, important is that there is the possibility to lock the iris so you can control you dof. I"m guessing this camera will automatically crank up the iso to compensate, not sure how noisy the footage will become depending on how much light you have on stage.

[Leon Kolenda]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Just tested VG20 with the Shuttle 2. Work flow was 1) shot in compressed Quictime file on Shuttle 2 with camera set at 24p,
2) convert to Cineform to remove pulldown

3) Edit and add levels and sharpness in Vegas.

4) Rendered to Mainconcept MP4 for upload to Vimeo

Comments:

a.) Stobing look in corner of water close to camera was actually visible to naked eye. I wondered if camera would record it, and it did faithfully.

b.) probably added too much sharpness, which created a bit strobing on panning shot.

c.) Download file for better look.



Black Magic Shuttle Test Shots on Vimeo

Hi I'm new here and like what you have done with this video, except maybe a little too much sharpness, that you mention. I have a vg20 I also use Adobe PPro CS5.5, how could I convert to pulldown, don't understand pulldown, where do you get cineform? Is there somewhere I cn learn about this process?

Leon

[Chris Barcellos]

Cineform is a product now bought out by GoPro, and has both free version and purchase versions. I use the paid version for higher capabilities, but even with the in camera codec you can use Cineform free Studio Version. CineForm Studio: Software Download.

Pull down is simply a treatment given to 24p footage to make it compatible with 60i only codecs. ACVHD original codec was only 60i but recent changes may eliminate that problem. However the HDMI out of most cameras has pulldown inserted for it to play properly on TV. The HDMI signal is also standard 60i, though that may have changed, depending on the device. The Shuttle only has HDMI out, with HDMI signals that have pull down inserted, even for cameras set at 24p. Thus, for efficient editing, I remove pulldown in conversion with Cineform.

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Leon Kolenda

.., don't understand pulldown, ..
Leon

Pulldown is needed to play 24p on a normal TV that refreshes its display 60 times sec. You can`t divide 60 by 24 and get an integer answer. So 2:3 pulldown plays the 1st frame 2 times the next 3 times then the next 2 times etc. So you get odd frames played twice and even frames played 3 times. 12x2= 24 and 12x3=36 making 60. A simple answer but you get the idea so that there is a frame for each refresh of the TV screen. From this of course you realize that its not really possible to see true 24p on a normal 60hz refresh display as there must always be pulldown giving the film look cadence one is used to seeing. To see true 24p one needs a TV refresh rate a multiple of 24 so that a 120hz TV etc fundamentally could playback 24p the equivalent of a film projector with a 5 blade shutter, plays each frame 5 times. In practice this is normally a BLuray playback over HDMI to a 120hz refresh or equivalent display that can configure to play 24p truly like a film projector.

Ron Evans

[Leon Kolenda]

So do the new camcorders VG20, VG30, have to have the pulldown removed? All I know is that I want the best looking video, not to crazy about film look, very sharp, smooth looking pans both horizontal and vertical, and as high as MBPS as possible so as to be able to make changes in post, with out a lot of problems.

I love the way the video looks on the JVC GYHM600, not sure how it was shot. Is it a big deal not having AVCHD in 1080P @60P? What I loved about the JVC Cam is how incredible it looked even under Vimeos compression. Is there a big difference between 1080p @ 30fps and 1280x720P @ 60P?

I shoot a little of everything right now. My client base is small business where most of the video winds up on the Net. and a few being on DVD's and maybe some cable commercials, No broadcast.

Don't mean to hijack this thread, trying to learn and see if the VG30 is what I should get or a 3 chip cam like the GYHM-600. It's getting real hard figuring out what to get, I'm also really thinking about the new Panny GH3.
Just not sure about the small sensor, GeeeeeZe its hard to figure.

[Chris Barcellos]

No, pull down is added to the HDMI signal to make it HDMI compliant. That is standard practice for most cameras with HDMI out. Shuttle is an HDMI recorder, thus records 24p material with pull down added to make it compliant.

[Leon Kolenda]

Thanks Chris. Black water is getting clearer!

[Ken Ross]

Just thought I'd mention that I've had the VG30 for a few days now and am very happy with it. As a reference point, I've been using the VG20 and had been happy with that too.

However the OLED VF is a huge improvement IMO. It's something that should be implemented on every camcorder as far as I'm concerned. You become far more involved in the shooting 'experience' and less a 'bystander' to the action. You can also gauge both focus (without assist) and color better than a traditional VF.

The zoom lens and rocker is a nice addition, but one note here. Some of you may have read that the VG30/900 incorporates a 'lossless' 2X conversion. It doesn't. Although it is much better than some digital doublers I've seen, you can see some degree of loss. It is a nice addition though and with caution it can be used effectively. Having the ability to use fixed focal length lenses and make a psuedo zoom out of them, is very nice.

The addition of a far better suite of color controls is welcome. Having a dedicated WB button and the ability to change color in different channels as well as a direct access to color temperature, is a nice improvement over the VG20 too. But alas, no means of controlling saturation, contrast etc. I don't find the preset profiles to be very interesting (toy etc.)

As for PQ, there isn't really a significant change. I do notice that WB is much better in auto when shooting indoors. You tend not to get that traditional oversaturation that's so common under those conditions. Of course MWB is always there, but if you're really doing a run n gun, it's nice that auto works somewhat better.

Haven't really done much shooting with it yet, but I do think it's a worthwhile change from the VG20.