The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

This looks very interesting. Cost? Compared to the CX700?

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

I think I saw $(US) 3,200 mentioned somewhere on the web - needs to be confirmed though as I'm not sure yet. Looks like a Canon XF100 competitor, depending whether 1080p50/60 or 4.2.2 is a more important feature - unless you like shooting in the rain where its a no brainer (should be good for England most of the time then!)

Interesting times - long live competition and the free market!

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Looks like the NXCam version of the HVR-A1 that I've been waiting for.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Andy, Sonys paper shows 3200

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Nice camera, but seems way over priced. When you can get the 700 for 1300, no way could I justify this cost to the boss.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

This does NOT look like a direct competitor to the CX700, it is definitely steps above in a different class.

From the little I've seen, it looks more like Sony V1U class camera.

It seems like a lot of people are comparing it to the Canon XF100, and while the price point makes it a good comparison, I think these two cameras have a lot of contrasting features to each, which is very good news for us the consumers.

The more variety in the selection of cameras out there, the better the chance each of us will get what we need, as opposed to a one-size-fits-all camera that is good for the market as a whole, but doesn't really work for any one type of shooter.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

It is not a competitor to the CX700 but is clearly based on the CX700. Looks to have the same sensor, same internal memory, same recording capability, same lens, same interconnection to external hard drive etc, exactly the same accessories, geotagging, Active Steadyshot, same batteries, etc, etc

Differences, 3.5" LCD, different lens hood, XLR mic connection, lens ring ( though this is only for 3 functions the CX700 has 6 on its control button/ring) . If it has independent gain control and solves a lot of the menu problems with the CX700 it will be good and maybe worth the price difference. However I expect the auto picture quality to be identical. The CX700 is certainly better in auto than my NX5U in auto.

Ron Evans

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

this could be what i'm looking for. a jvc hm100 style camera, xlrs and good lowlight ability. we'll see...!

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Ron, what menu issues? one may not like how they implemented, but to say issue implies something does not work to spec.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

The menus work just fine but are a lot less convenient than the ones on the SR11 from almost 4 years ago. To me that is an issue of design. The CX550 and even the old HC96 Hi8 had the ability to set up a custom page of the most used parameters, the playback had the ability to separate stills and video etc. For instance if you use spot focus a lot ( like I do ) it is now 3 pages away for operation. Once a parameter is changed the screen goes all the way back to the beginning rather than the page before so multiple parameter changes mean a lot of menu button pushing. It all works but is not convenient for making changes. If all the functions were on buttons it would be great and of course require a bigger camera body.

Ron Evans

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Ron, I know you do not like the way they are setup. But, saying the menus had problems might have others not understand what you mean and this does not seem to be fair to the camera.

For 1300 bucks, to go tapeless, with great quality, small size, 1080p, wow, 5 years ago we would have all gone nuts for something like this. Technology is great.

Now, I would love to have the NX70, just like others in the past with XLR's, but they add so much more cost on and with the picture quality usually being the same, I have plenty of other things we can buy for the camera, as you stated, that I just hold back.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

I want to believe they did it right this time :)

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Dave I have a lot of Sony cameras. Have been using the AVCHD cameras since the SR7 ( which my daughter now has). Currently use the SR11, XR500, NX5U and now the CX700. Picture improvement has been incremental since the SR7. The big change came with the "R" sensor with the XR500 series that has very low noise compared even to the NX5U. The CX700 continues this trend and adds 60P ( my main reason for getting the camera). The CX700 1920x1080 60i picture is almost identical to the XR500 for the theatre shoot I did on Monday evening or even the SR11 that my wife used and they all compare to the NX5U on the same shoot. The main differences between all these cameras is the controls. For the NX5U they are all easily accessible on buttons or assignable buttons etc as well as a 20x zoom and XLR audio.. The consumer models vary in the available controls and assignable functions. The consumer models excel in auto functions not available on the pro models.

I am sorry if I give the wrong impression. The CX700 is a great camera but in my opinion the menu approach is a backward step from Sony menus of the past models.

All these consumer models I still own were all about the same price so technology keeps giving more for the same price. The NX5U in comparison is 4 times the price for the extra controls etc!!!!!

Ron Evans

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Ron, I agree. I have had many Sony cameras over the years, but have to admit, I pretty much just leave them on auto. I agree it would be great to have the menu as you described, but we are probably stuck. :o(

Thanks for all your posts, and others. Always great to share ideas.

Now that we have 60p, not sure what future stuff I would be interested in. At the moment, I have zero interest in 3D. I am just so happy the tools have matured so I can make BR iso projects with my HD material and play then from a hard drive in my set top box. Nice to not need to buy all the stuff needed to burn BR media.

Again, thanks for all your posting of knowledge.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

I like the idea it's waterproof. I wonder if it can really be flushed like that? If so, it would go a long way toward cleaning salt off the camera.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Neat looking cam. The overall look reminds me a lot of the JVC GY-HM100. Should be interesting to see how this camera stacks up against it and the XF100 from Canon.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

I would be more interested in what certain stores like B & H place as the price for this camera. Sony always prices their cameras at the highest end, while Pro Camera shops like B & H, J&R, Adorama, to name a few may price the camcorder slightly lesser and also offer rebates which may bring the camera down even lower.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

I like your thinking (and having seen a little of what you shoot from time to time I can see exactly why this is of interest!) However, 'waterproof' and 'rain' (or perhaps shower) proof are two very different things (sorry to be pedantic.....). One will withstand immersion (and is often rated to a depth in meters, e.g. watches) whilst the other is more "a grey marketing term" and implies you can use it in light rain (in my book anyway). You know all this I'm sure Dean, just making sure no one gets too excited as guess which one I believe applies to this new cam - still a great idea though! I've really enjoyed using a Canon 7D in some extreme conditions (like the Arctic) because of it's excellent weatherproofing (there you go, yet another ill defined term!)

And of course there is the dust proofing claim on this new baby too that its design also brings as an added benefit - I can tell you that in some of the factory environments I sometimes shoot in with my EX3 that is a VERY BIG potential advantage/one less thing I would then need to worry about so much!

All in all, looks like a good marketing move by Sony, especially with the 1080p50/60 which is rapidly becoming a new standard/must have (and one reason why I bought an inexpensive little Panasonic TM900 recently)....Let's just hope this NX70 does not have some of the poor menu interface things and limited manual controls that seem to have partly crippled the new CX700 (from what I've read) that forms the guts of it. This thing has more buttons and seems to have independent gain control etc. so hopefully that won't be a problem at all. If those important boxes get ticked, along with good image quality once we get to see samples (but surely, it will be identical to the CX700), then Sony should be onto a winner (once the price gets discounted a bit - seems blummin pricey!). As someone already pointed out, you could buy THREE CX700s for $3,200...and I would add you could put them all in 5 penny plastic bags for rainproofing ;-)

As to it being a XF100 killer as is already being discussed on the Sony YouTube video comments, well not really. The Canon has 720p, different frame rates, lots of pro picture control abilities and of course 4.2.2. at 50 Mbps. They are aimed a different markets and different needs even though it looks like they are going to be similar in price. At it's heart the NX70 is a "souped up" prosumer CX700 cam whilst the XF100 is a "dumbed down" well respected XF300 professional cam. That's how it looks to me anyway, but it's very early days yet. Exciting times - lots of choices, great!!!!

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

I guess Dave may be correct in people getting the wrong idea about the menu issue I raised.

The CX700 has a perfectly adequate menu system set up for its intended customer the consumer who most of the time will shoot in automatic. I feel it is a backward step from previous Sony cameras that in my mind had a better menu paging approach. For me, used as a second camera to my NX5U, unattended it is not as convenient as either the SR11 or XR500 which have much quicker access to spot focus which I use a lot and the CX700 default to opening page on exit meaning one has to start all again to alter more than one parameter. Not a problem for most at all but to attempt to use as a prosumer unit will require more effort than previous units. The video is lovely and the intelligent auto mode is very good so most of the time there is little need to alter any parameters manually in a consumer environment like the ski holiday I just returned from. For the whole week I left the unit in Intelligent auto active steadyshot and it was great. I used a variable ND filter when on the slopes to cut down a little light.

Shooting in the theatre on Monday evening was different and in this regard it was not as convenient to manage as the SR11 or the XR500. Picture quality in 60i was virtually identical to the XR500 as one would expect. One nice feature which may solve some of my issues with getting to spot focus is the expanded focus feature which is activated when the control is rotated and then reverts to normal magnification when released ( something that would be nice on the NX5U which has a button to engage expanded focus which has to be switched on and off)

Hopefully the NX70 will have all the manual controls I had hoped for but unfortunately I have not seen any mention of manual gain control.

Ron Evans

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Am I reading this wrong?

The Minimum Illumination spec for this camera seems to be relatively high (i.e. not good) given the price range and overall feature set.

The brochure cites a 3 lux figure (Low LUX mode, 1/25 shutter).

Meanwhile, for example, the Canon XF100 has a 4.5 lux spec @ (1/60, +24dB) in full auto mode.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Ron, thanks for your post since as I was readying Andy's, I again was asking, why all the negative. Now, if the camera did not do something it was sold as doing, great. But again, for the price, I think the camera is great. If you want "pro" features, then why is anyone looking at a consumer or pro consumer camera to start with. A menu can be done lots of ways. As an engineer, there are always trade offs from ease of use to complexity. For the target market this camera is being sold to, I think it is perfect.

Andy, just wondering, how can you justify such negative comments on the camera?

Dave

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Maybe I should expand a little on the importance of spot focus for me. These little consumer cameras do not hold backfocus at all. So when they zoom the focus needs to be adjusted. In auto this is not a problem and the Sony is great having lots of auto options like tracking an object or face which it does just great. However if one is shooting a stage event and wants to move around the stage, zoom in etc then manual focus is important ( the lights going up and down will totally throw off the auto focus) so quick spot or manual focus is important. My wife uses the SR11 which has zebra ( unlike the XR500 !!) set with the control wheel on exposure and with the spot focus grid on the LCD. Easy to alter the exposure and spot focus at the same time. Once you have got to this position the CX700 is the same. However to get to Spot focus one has to press menu, camera, then scroll to spot focus, select spot focus. For the SR11 its menu,spot focus immediately. This is the basis of my menu comments as this procedure is true for all selections. If your lucky then the selection doesn't need any scrolling it is however still one more button push than before. The CX700 does have peaking and expanded focus but this is still nowhere near as fast as touching spot focus.

Once again the CX700 picture is beautiful with very low noise levels( just like the XR500 ) and at times much better than the NX5U or the EX3 we shoot with. If you really want a full manual camera with XLR PCM audio etc then buy a NX5U like I did for that very purpose. As a reporter camera left most of the time in full auto the NX70U will be great. It just seems a little pricy for me though.

Ron Evans

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

I think that the "negative" comes from backwards steps in menu design - it's like the Sony tripod mount guy got promoted to "menus"... It's like a pretty girl with Gilbert Gottfried's voice... it's just so jarring, it sticks out, and justifies a negative...


CX550 - press menu, up pop six items which you can customise to your taste, one touch, you're "in"! Other menu items you have to hit another button and scroll until you find what you want, but six things is pretty much enough, quick, and easy.

I gather on the CX700 Sony designers "forgot" to put a customizable menu in there, and so to find what you want, you have to press, scroll, try to remember where the specific thing you want is, and hit an extra button or two, depending on the submenu...

I know I was no fan of the XR500 "dual menu" system, which IMO was clunky, but the CX500/520/550 use a single menu system, with the aforementioned "custom" menu - very slick, very easy, and they already KNOW how to code it (it was similar on the "7" series cams, SR/CX/HC7)... WHY MAKE IT HARDER?!?!?! It worked on the older cameras, just go with it... "new" is not always "better".


The Nex3/5 was HEAVILY criticized for it's poor menus (on an otherwise well reviewed camera, no less), to the point where they released a firmware update, so "negative" noise can elicit a response from Sony. Firmware is ALL this is, just sloppy interface design, not anything else, and it's SILLY to release cameras that are more difficult to use than they need to be.

When it comes to the NX70, we all have yet to "see" the camera, so no way of knowing how well the design is implemented.

In the end, you (the user) get used to whatever menus the camera HAS, but when there is a good, effective, efficient design and the Mfr KNOWS it, then changes it around to make it less efficient, less easy to use, and clunkier... it's frustrating!

IMO Sony could "standardize" instead of trying to "innovate" and the user would be more comfortable when picking up a new or different camera, but they don't do it that way...

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Spot on Dave B and Ron. If its got well thought out menus and performs as well as it's pedigree suggests, then it should be a winner - for its target market - and that probably includes me. And to Dave C, sorry if I came across too negative to you. Truth is I'm VERY interested in this cam for the weatherproofing/dustproofing reasons I mentioned earlier, if nothing else, and especially for it's 1080p50/60 - I'm just loving the Panasonic TM900 for that feature alone! (something my EX3 won't do).

I just need the price to get a bit more sensible - I won't be an "early adopter" at $3,200....or whatever that ends up being in Sterling with all our taxes and our typical UK "local pricing" on cameras.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Andy, I was commenting about your "that seem to have partly crippled the new CX700 " comments.
Do you have the cx700? Does the cx700 function not to its spec? If the NX70 has all the features some want, then the 3200 price might be right on.

Dave

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Well I did say VERY clearly "from what I've read" (mainly from Ron) who has been very good with providing useful user information to the community about his CX700....what's your problem?

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Andy, my "problem" is I just think it is wrong to make negative comments about something you did not try.

Dave

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

I agree if you haven't seen it or tried it how do you know . I thought the same about being negative about the Canon XF 300 and I was wrong !

Doug

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

The camcorderinfo review of the CX700 is now available. I post a link here as it's likely to give a good indication of how the NX70 might perform in a number of key areas since they both share similar, or identical, core components (lens, sensor etc.) from all the information that we current have so far. Like all on-line reviews, read it and make your own mind up!

Sony HDR-CX700V Camcorder Review - CamcorderInfo.com

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Andy,

Prestons have listed the NX70 at £2160 incl VAT (£1800 ex VAT). This is very interesting, putting it in the same price range as the JVC HM100, Panasonic HMC40/41 etc. It's around £300-400 less than the Canon XF100.

See: H Preston - Sony HXR NX70

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

That's more like it! Thanks.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Release seems to be a way off yet - July, according to B&H. So we'll have to see if the price holds.

I'm getting seriously tempted by this camera. It looks like it has a remote (Lanc) too, judging by the spec on B&H: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/761581-REG/Sony_HXR_NX70U_HXR_NX70_Compact_Dust_and.html
"Remote: 2.5mm Stereo Mini (x1)"

Which would be good for me, when on-tripod. I was put off the JVC HM100 because of a lack of wired remote zoom.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

I've spent some time today examining the specs of the NX70, and comparing it to my Panasonic HMC41 (HMC40 in USA).

Overall, it does seem to provide benefits for me (1920x1080 50p, water proof for the Irish weather, better low light, much wider lens, much better viewfinder and LCD amongst others, including the nightshot gimmick). And it's probably more comfortable for my uses than the CX700.

Questions for me at the moment are what on-screen guides we get. The CX700 has zebras, peaking and guide frame, so hopefully those will carry through to the NX70 as well. I would be surprised if they were missed off the pro model. (Edit: silly me, just noticed the Histogram button!)

Time will tell. I read that this will be previewed in April, when we will get a clearer idea of the nature of the beast. Come June, I will hopefully be pulling the trigger on this, it fixes a good few things that annoy me about the Panasonic. It does look like a great little "mini pro" camera.

Edit: ProAV are listing the camera at £3000 incl VAT: http://www.proav.co.uk/Cameras-Camco...654_sc773.aspx

Let's hope that gets adjusted down a bit.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

There are a few differences other than the lens ring etc from the CX700, the histogram and also it records PCM audio rather than just Dolby AC3. Hopefully we will find out more as time goes on. I am looking forward to seeing the manual when it appears on a Sony site somewhere.

Ron Evans

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

There was a comparison on camcorderinfo of the CX700 (which the NX70 is supposedly based on) with the Panasonic tm700/900. They put the Panasonic on top and their only complaint about the TM900 was that it wasn't as much of an improvement over the previous model TM700 whereas the CX700 was a significant improvement over it's previous model. A somewhat twisted analysis.

Anyway, having used the TM700 as a B-Cam/POV cam, I am glad I did not compromise on the lens ring and histogram. It made using the camera one handed and from the side possible. This camera might be too large but it DOES have the water and dust protection as plusses. YMMV

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

My only observation on CCI "reviews" is that I have yet to read a review of a Sony camera that isn't "twisted" - not sure why, but they don't seem to like Sony all that well... so you have to take it into consideration when reading.

I have to wonder if the camera they tested had been around the block a couple times - they noted the control wheel being twitchy, and the OIS being worse than the CX550, no way to know without a CX700 in hand, but I'd be a bit surprised if the "backwards steps" are that significant. They LIKED the menu, which seems like a huge backwards step in real world usability... hourses for courses I suppose!

The NX70 is a far more interesting animal, and I still suspect we may see a AX7000... Sony is a creature of habit after all. The FX7 is VERY long in the tooth, having suffered discontinuation AND resurrection, and is at a price point Sony really needs to hit to compete with the XA1. Maybe some announcements with NAB?

edit: took a swing by a German review site that is usually pretty decent... looks to me like Sony may need to do some tweaking with the new sensor, which isn't unusual. The CX700 certainly doesn't impress in the low light department.

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

To anyone who has seen this camcorder, the HXR-NX70, and the footage that it shoots, perhaps you can tell me if it is different or similiar from the footage shot with the HXR-MC50? It seems the NX70 is what we wanted the MC50 to have been. Other than having XLR adapters, progressive shooting, and all these bells and whistles, is there really a difference between the two cams? What I mean is when all is said and done, is the footage yielded gonna be significantly different between the two cams or have a similiar look?

Ozzy

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Ozzy, I don't think that anyone outside Sony will have seen footage yet as this is a pretty recently announced cam (or if they have, they will be on a NDA - Non Disclosure Agreement for those that have not worked under one).

That being said NAB is very close and one would expect Sony to have one or more on their stand. Maybe if someone who's visiting could take a memory card and get some clips and post them up that might be useful (albeit it won't be ideal - but at least a start).

At the moment, all we have is an indication of how it will perform with regard to it's specs with respect to little sister models (like the CX700 which have been tested by camcorderinfo, Slashcam etc.) that a few early adopter 'DVinfoers' have also enlightened us on. In addition, we can consider the slightly older though very similar CX550/MC50 etc. (who's picture performance is well known by many).

Maybe Sony will "launch" some decent example videos shot with it at NAB (filmed by people under those NDA's, who knows).

Personally, I SUSPECT it'll be very similar (if not identical) in picture performance to the CX700, i.e. very close to the cam you ask about - but let's wait and SEE. It just needs a little patience! [I'm as keen as you are to know, believe me!]

Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”
 

Video review from Visual Impact UK here:

YouTube - Sony HXR-NX70 Visual Impact Review (visuals.co.uk)

NAB Hands-on (from a Swiss reviewer) here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-Iua...ailpage#t=119s
(Link updated - the NX70 is about 2 minutes in to the clip)

It's enough to get the gist of it, and there's a glimpse of the NX70 having a shower, and a quick look at the menu system.