Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Just received my HXR-NX70P here in New Zealand two days ago. Camera looks great, lot more plasticy than my HVR-A1P though, the LCD screen doesn't look like it would stand too much vigorous activity. But to cap it off the zoom rocker is a shocker, at least mine is. There is a lot of lost motion in either direction then a little, wee, minute section of slow zoom and then its full throttle to full speed. I can't believe that any pro-sumer or professional would find this acceptable!! I had seen on this forum comment but had no feeling for how bad this was to be. I bought this camera because I thought that the new 'professional style' rocker would be proportional not a two speed switch. I plan to follow this up locally most thoroughly to see what SONY is prepared to do. Has anyone done this, and if so what action are SONY planning?? By the way I should mention it takes great video with better colour definition and detail compared to the old HVR-A1P.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Hey Warren,

I'm down in Christchurch - supplier is getting demo stock in the next few days - I was keen to purchase one as a b-cam to nx5, but have also heard terrible reports about the zoom rocker, I'll let you know how I get on.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

I agree...I sent mine back to B&H...what was Sony thinking?

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

It is a pain - hopefully a firmware change will fix this. John suggested using the manual ring, which I find works pretty well.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Looks like a carry over from the CX700 that its based on which is the same terrible action. The other small Sony's I have, XR500 and SR11 do not have this problem. They all work much the same with a LANC controller though so its the mechanical control that is the problem. I too thought they might have fixed this with the NX70. At least there is the ring control.

Ron Evans

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

I've been using the ring control when shooting outdoors and using the zoom controls on the LCD screen when shooting indoors. The zoom rocker has not been a showstopper for me, although I find it annoying that I can't use it for its intended purpose. For me, the fun-to-grief ratio on this camera is very high and outweighs this shortcoming.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

I know this thread is about the NX70s zoom rocker but for anyone considering the cheaper consumer version (CX700 etc.), then if the zoom rocker is equally as bad (as stated above by Ron) they should be aware that one possible alternative in that price segment is the Panasonic TM900 (and its related models).

I have to say the zoom rocker on the top of my TM900 is a joy to use and is capable of incredibly slow creeping zooms in and out (the only kind I'd want to do anyway). In that department (and a few others) it nearly rivals my Sony EX3. It's certainly way better than the one on my old Sony HC1 (which wasn't too bad).

So if the zoom rocker performance is as an important feature for you as it is for me, then consider looking at the little Panasonics. Of course the TM900 is not splash proof, has no XLRs etc...but then nor is the consumer version Sony CX700. Maybe one day one of the main manufacturers of cameras will get everything right in one affordable cam!!!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Gentlemen, thanks for your prompt replies, however reading them I can't help thinking how amazingly easy going on SONY you all are. Like me you must have paid your hard earned cash expecting a product that befits the description 'professional' and now you are resigned to 'work around' the problem. I don't know about you, but for me I don't think it is fair that I just accept it, and live in hope that SONY may fix it one day with no expectations they actually will. I back-ordered mine on my past association with the VX2000 & HVR-A1P and traded my A1P in prior to receiving the HXR-NX70P, that I know was my big mistake. None of the respondents so far have indicated they have complained to SONY but I intend to, wish me luck!!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

I have been PRAYING that Sony would release a HD version of the VX 2000/2100,the BEST run & Gun camera ever (I still have a pristine one!)...so many years later,hasn't happened!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

@Warren...Yup Sony screwed up big time on that one...Hey,I could "work around it" for maybe half the price...but NOT at 3grand!!!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

The zoom rocker doesn't bother me that much, I've always used a Lanc remote to get smooth, slow zooms.

It is hyper-sensitive though. I was experimenting a bit last night, and it is just about possible to get a slow zoom with the rocker - but you wouldn't want to risk using it on an unrepeatable live event!

I believe (with no real evidence) that they could fix this in a firmware update, I'm sure I recall this problem on another Sony camera once. I will contact them just as soon as I can figure out who to contact!

One does wonder who designed it, though, and whether or not anybody checked or approved it!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

I almost always use the EX1R on a tripod with a lanc controller, but the little 70U is a great small handheld camera. I find the lack of usable zoom lever annoying, but have adapted to using it manually, which is what I do with the GH2. I bought it because of its ability to withstand rain, splashing and (I assume) snow, but I’ve actually been surprised by how nice a small camera it is for other video use. If anyone finds out who to contact at Sony about a fix for the zoom, please share it here?

I’m with Mike on the question of wondering how Sony let something like this get on the market. It’s really quite amazing.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

I would assume that Sony monitors online discussions about its products. However, it never hurts to let a company's management know about the problems associated with a particular product. I believe that the NX70 falls under Sony's Broadcast and Production Division. As far as I deduce from Sony's website (they don't provide office addresses or e-mails for their executives), this would be the person to write to:

Hugo Gaggioni , Chief Technology Officer
Sony Corporate Headquarters
Broadcast & Production Systems Division
16530 Viaduct Esprillo
San Diego, CA 92127-1708

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

I have yesterday emailed two gentlemen here in SONY New Zealand there names having been given to me by my retailer. They have yet to reply but it is early days yet. A lot of your replies on this subject seem to indicate you are hoping that SONY will act on this or other forum postings. I am more sceptical, and feel if we don't actually make contact nothing will get done. If you don't know who to contact at least go to your SONY Style showroom page and at the top of the page in small writing is a 'Contact us' tab. This brings up a formatted e-mail page in which you can express your concerns. I can say that I have tried the Canon XF100 zoom and it is like liquid honey and is also proportional. Even the handle mounted zoom which is provided, is also so smooooth! The type of shooting I and some of the forum members do requires hand held operation in a way that the camera was designed for, so a smooth zoom rocker is essential. Come on SONY, help your faithful customers out!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

I have been told this week by my retailer that he has heard back from SONY's technical rep whom was in Japan last week. SONY are accutely aware of the Zoom Rocker control problem and are working on a fix. This will most likely be a repair file to re-program the zoom rocker function. When, well he could not say, but like me he is concerned and wants the problem fixed ASAP. I guess its just a case of wait!!!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

The NX70 was designed to be a run and gun camera for newsgathering. I believe they made the zoom response fast because in a news situation, you need to compose your shot as quickly as possible, which it does. For me, a fast zoom works well. Just compose, and recompose your shots as quickly as possible. A slower creep is still possible if you practice and get used to it.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Hey - 2 Warrens, 2 opinions! :)

I'm with Warren E on this one. Just recieved the NX70 demo unit today and the zoom rocker is terrible.

Absolutely terrible. As in defective.

At best, you can get a mid-speed zoom if you are incredibly careful - but a slow creep forward or backwards that any other camera can do in this price range - it fails.

Apart from the zoom rocker, this camera is AMAZING. Beautiful ergonomics. LCD and viewfinder which looks like a futuristic plasma TV in quality! Active steadyshot that will probably put Steadycam(inc) out of business. Nice menu system with handy 'my buttons' assignables. Nice full control of iris and focus assisting. Incredibly quick and accurate auto-focus.

I'm probably going to buy it, and pray for a zoom rocker fix.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

BREAKING NEWS: My retailer here has confirmed Sony have "a software upgrade pending to slow the fast Zoom down. The problem is caused by the *waterproofing* of the rocker mechanism."

Will have more details soon...

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

So maybe some defective units zoom faster than others, depending on how the switch was coated?

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Nice Sony spin but the CX700 has exactly the same issue compared to earlier handycams I have like the XR500 or SR11 !!!

Ron Evans

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Windows allows users to adjust the scroll speed of the mouse, why can't Sony include such a feature in the menu so that one can choose a zoom profile to their liking? That would be a nice feature.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Good news on the firmware update, folks. I'm just back from a couple of days filming with my little beastie and I couldn't be happier.

All my zooms were with the Lanc controller, though!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Mike has the firmware fixed the rocker issue and changed anything else? Thanks

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

The firmware update isn't released yet, as far as I know.

It doesn't stop me being happy though!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Just picked up my NX70 today! I love it so far but.....

I thought you guys might have overblown the zoom/rocker problem just a little bit,..but OMG...this problem is terrible! In all my years of buying video cameras this NX70 rocker is the WORST I have ever seen in any camera to date. (it's even worse that my cheapest consumer cameras)

How could this issue have gotten past the Sony design team? Even worse, how did it get past the beta testers and make it's way into production? Didn't anyone operate the zoom rocker (just once) before it went to production?

I'm a huge Sony fan but I'm shocked that something so huge slipped through the design and production cracks!..I mean,..WOW!

We need a firmware fix yesterday. (something that buffers the data from the rocker)

The lens control server appears to handle "slow" commands from the touch screen zoom control. So, I'm guessing it's not a lens motor issue, it's a data send issue?

Wow,..this is bad.

CT

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Yes I agree, its a bit of a shocker for a "Professional" video cam zoom control. Although my local SONY Tech manager has promised a fix is on the way, I urge you to make contact with your local SONY Professional Tech Manager and tell him or her of your disappointment. The more that happens the sooner the fix! The camera produces great video and I am impressed, but the zoom rocker is a grave lapse of quality control in my opinion.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

I've also noticed that the remote control that came with the camera allows for a smooth, slow zoom. But that's not of much use in the field. I would like to see an option for a choice of zooms (slow and fast) like that found on the Sony VX2100. It would, of course, have to be an option on the camera's menu. I do miss those switches and buttons!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

It seems like this is indeed the case, I can get some very nice slow zooms with my Libec Lanc control.

Indeed, the combination of NX70, Vinten Vision Blue tripod and Libec Lanc has given me the best combined zoom/pan/tilt shots I've ever managed.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

This NX70 (I haven't actually handled one) appears to have no user-operated ND filters, right? So have any of you taken a peek down the lens to see what's going on? My Panasonic 900 spends most of its life shooting at maximum aperture, only starting to stop down when the light levels require an aperture smaller than f/5.6. I wonder if this Sony operates in the same way?

And another question: regarding the active Steadyshot. I have this mode on my NX5 but the slight crop, loss of wide-angle coverage and subsequent re-scaling of the image are losses that are hard to bear. Is the NX70 any better in this respect?

tom.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

I am assuming the response is the same as the CX700 though Mike will no doubt comment too. For the CX700 it appears to work to provide the best depth of field for any faces that are in the shot or whatever is the focal point. It will adjust gain, shutter speed and iris to do this. In telemacro it seems to do the opposite creating shallow depth of field. Most iris values appear to be in the f3.4 to f4 range for outdoor shoots.

Active Steadyshot is Electronic image stabilization on top of Optical so the image has to be cropped/scaled to allow for the border needed to stabilize the image. I don't see any degradation on the CX700 and the image is very stable. I don't use on my NX5U because all use of that is on a tripod with stabilization switched off.

Ron Evans

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

The active steadyshot is amazing. Walking shots look like steadycam and panning on wide looks like quality tripod footage. I'm not easily impressed, but it is VERY good.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

The active steadyshot on the little Sony's is really good. This a short test I did when I first got my CX700 just walking down the path near my house holding the camera out in front of me in both hands.
On our ski holiday I skied down besides my grandsons and the video looks like I was on a track. Very good. If you shoot for a length of time the picture will occasionally re center itself but this is small price to pay for such a steady picture.

Ron Evans

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

The Panasonics seem to have a built-in automatic ND. My HMC41 certainly did, and I understand that a number of other models do.

As far as I am aware, there is no auto-ND in the NX70. There's certainly no user-selectable one, which is just about the only thing I would really, really want changed about the camera (assuming they fix the zoom rocker in firmware!). There probably isn't the space for it in a compact camera like this.

I'll have a peep down the lens tonight to see what actually happens, whether it is a proper iris control or an auto ND.

The Active Steadyshot is fantastic, I have posted one or two samples further down the forum here, and posted a raw file on my Vimeo page: Mike Beckett on Vimeo

As John said, A.S.S. (unfortunate acronym alert!) seems to be great for pans on wide angle, when I got some of my recent footage back home to edit it I couldn't believe how smooth it is, and how steady it is when not panning. I don't think there's any loss of quality when you turn active steadyshot on, certainly nothing I can see with my naked eye, or even with my glasses.

Regarding loss of wide angle - the NX70 is 26mm wide angle already, so you don't lose very much. I think the NX5 is around 30mm.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Mike - if there's no manually selectable ND on the NX70 there there most certainly will be internal (undocumented) ND being applied. Sony won't want you filming at (actual) apertures smaller than about f/5.6.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

You'd think so, wouldn't you!


Not my best video ever, it was taken with a Lumix stills camera, in poor light, using a Stanley LED torch to shine down the lens!

This shows the iris stopping right down to closed, in one of the shots you can see the readout on the LCD panel as well. I don't see any ND filter kicking in at any point, as I did with my Panasonic HMC41. Surely if there was an auto-ND, the iris would only close so far, then it would stay at a certain minimum setting rather than closing completely?

You can see the HMC's ND filter on Adam Wilt's review: ProVideo Coalition.com: HMC40 review

It would be good to get some feedback from people who are more knowledgable about this than I am.

The NX70 does produce some bad chromatic aberration when you get down to smaller apertures, and I presume that the picture gets less sharp as well. I use B+W ND filters on bright days, or up the shutter speed if I can get away with it.

I have to say, on auto (i.e. “stop Beckett fiddling with the manual settings to stuff everything up mode”) it seems to do a pretty good job normally.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

The sun light down here in New Zealand can be harsh with high UV. I was pleased to see the NX70 had a usable lens filter mounting thread, and that one was still able to fit the lens hood, not like my SONY HVR-A1P. So I have used my ND4 neutral density filter several times, this was something I used almost all the time in summer with my A1P and this camera will benefit in the same way. With an 'f' stop range of 1.8 to 9.6 I like to aim to keep it round midway. I just check the conditions by sliding the auto/manual switch to manual to show the aperture readout, and then go back to auto. The ND4 drops it back round 2 stops generally. The video quality I get is so good, but I still await the ZOOM ROCKER fix!!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Mike - to avoid repeating myself I might suggest you pop over to

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-hvr...ml#post1675362

This thread will help explain what's going on inside all camcorders that don't sport manually operated ND filters. Of course all cams allow you to do what you've done on your little film - let you to manually stop down the lens until the iris blades close. In fact it's quite fun filming at f/45 or so (using slow shutter speeds) to show the diffraction losses horribly clearly.

So although you can manually close your iris, what happens if the camera's left to it's own devices? Do the same test at full tele - that way it's much easier to see the sliver of ND behind (chip-side) of the iris. I haven't tested the NX70 so can't confirm what I suspect, but it has pretty small 1/2.9" chips so needs to use ND at some point in its life. The EX1R has bigger chips and has lots of ND on hand.

tom.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Tom, I did the same thing at full tele, and there was no sign of an ND popping in behind the iris. I just couldn't get a clear shot of it with my other camera. It may be there, and I just couldn't see it.

I will have another look at it and try other settings... but to be honest, it isn't a big issue for me!

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Although we seem to be getting a little 'off subject' of this posting I draw your attention to this on HD Warrior HD Warrior Blog Archiv Sony’s NX70 Rocker Switch…”Taking the bull by the horns”
I hasten to add I did not write or present this article but you can see I am mentioned in the heading which I can only assume is a reference to this forum. As I always shoot hand held this is a big problem for me or anyone that is on the move when shooting. Let your local SONY pro tech rep know of your thoughts as I have. As it says in the HD Warrior page it would be nice to see some acknowledgement from SONY.

Re: Zoom rocker, a show stopper!!
 

Canon already does it since a while...