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-   -   Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxcam-nex-fs100-cinealta/496335-starting-scratch-lens-brand-mounts.html)

Jon Braeley May 24th, 2011 07:06 AM

Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
This is not a question specific to an adapter or mount... but the FS-100 begs the question: What if I start from scratch and invest in new glass for the FS-100 but also for future proofing on other models?

Where would this lead to? Or is it an impossible dream...

Most of us have some investment in one proprietry brand and is it worthwhile doggedly sticking with them?

If not, what would be the choice considering where cameras are going.

Brian Bang Jensen May 24th, 2011 07:34 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
If the projects I am going to shoot could justify it, I would buy a kit of Zeiss CP2 primes with PL mount, and a PL to E- mount adapter.
But this is not the case...

The world is full of compromises. In my case the compromise is some fast Zeiss Nikon primes and a Nikon to E – mount adapter. Then I am also able to use the lenses on my Nikon D700 and for the prize of one CP2 I can buy 4 Zeiss primes for my Nikon / FS100. It is not the perfect solution, but it is useable.
In the future thees lenses could also, with an appropriate adapter, be used on my future cameras.

Steve Kalle May 24th, 2011 11:15 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I would get Nikon Zeiss with the Cine upgrade which removes hard stops, adds a focus gear and adapts the outer filter ring to a standard size so all Zeiss cine upgrades can use the same mattebox. AFAIK, these Nikon Zeiss can be used on Reds, PL-mounts (ie, F3) and the FS100. DuclosLenses has a good reputation for this cine-mod and is only about $250 extra per lens. They can upgrade other lenses as well.

Brian Bang Jensen May 24th, 2011 12:35 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Steve this mod is new to me. It makes the lenses even better.
I have been looking on Ducloslenses website and their mod is actually removing the downsides of using SLR lenses as cine lenses.

Glad I haven’t ordered mine yet

Steve Nelson May 24th, 2011 09:16 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
+1 on the Nikon F mount Zeiss primes. I have the 21mm 2.8, 35mm 1.4, 50mm 1.4 and 85mm 1.4. I love these lenses. I like them so much I started using them just as much for photography as I do cinematography. The external aperture control is the big plus over the ZE mount lenses. On the downside the focus control is counterintuitive unless you've been a Nikon user all along. Not a big deal though really.

Jon Braeley May 26th, 2011 06:12 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I think everyone agrees on the Zeiss cp2's!

Nikon F mounts solve many issues in terms of compatibility with a range of new cameras mostly due to adapter availability. Seems like everyone is sitting on the fence waiting to see what MTF and Birger come up with for EOS lenses.

Right now - without considering the two Canon bodies I own, I would go with NIkon Zeiss myself.

Jon Braeley May 28th, 2011 06:00 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I just saw some FS-100 tests using this Sony Zeiss lens...looked really good.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/545868-REG/Sony_SAL2470Z_SAL_2470Z_24_70mm_f_2_8_Carl.html

Ryan Creason June 1st, 2011 12:53 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
What should one be looking for in a lens? How can you tell if they are for still photography or video? I'm looking into this camcorder as a next step for me. I currently shoot with an XH-A1, so I don't know much about lenses unfortunately. I would like something that will be versatile and make use of a high f-stop for the DoF that this camera will give me.

Also, as far as A-mount, F-mount, E-mount... Will any mount of lens work with the camera if I get the right adapter? Will any adapter work, or are they not all made equal? I'm would use the stock lens, but wanted to know what else I should get. I had someone recommend to me the Tokina 11-16mm lens, but I wasn't sure what adapter, etc.

Unfortunately I wouldn't have a large budget for a lens (<1k).

Sorry, kinda new to this interchangeable lens world. Thanks guys.

Galen Rath June 3rd, 2011 04:02 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I got some low cost used Canon FD lenses to tide me over until I can get something better. You have to get lenses that have a manual aperture ring on them (in general EF and EF-S lenses don't, although there are a few non Canon lenses for the EOS (eg. Vivitar) that do have a ring for setting the aperture manually). Nikon lenses seem to be a safe bet too, quality, and because they are in demand if you want to sell them later, and it appears to me that even the latest NIKON lenses have a manual aperture ring. Always look for F stops 2.8 or lower if you want low light and shallow DOF possibilities. Just about any lens has a lot of information available on the web--read before you buy!

Bill Bruner June 3rd, 2011 09:58 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Creason (Post 1654707)
What should one be looking for in a lens? How can you tell if they are for still photography or video? I'm looking into this camcorder as a next step for me. I currently shoot with an XH-A1, so I don't know much about lenses unfortunately. I would like something that will be versatile and make use of a high f-stop for the DoF that this camera will give me.

Also, as far as A-mount, F-mount, E-mount... Will any mount of lens work with the camera if I get the right adapter? Will any adapter work, or are they not all made equal? I'm would use the stock lens, but wanted to know what else I should get. I had someone recommend to me the Tokina 11-16mm lens, but I wasn't sure what adapter, etc.

Unfortunately I wouldn't have a large budget for a lens (<1k).

Sorry, kinda new to this interchangeable lens world. Thanks guys.

Welcome to the world of interchangeable lenses. Lots to learn, but the results on the screen are worth it.

With a budget of <$1K, you probably won't be able to afford a dedicated video or cinema lens, so if anyone brings up a "PL" or a "B4" mount, ignore them.

You will want a still lens -- either a "native" Sony lens (one that fits the camera without an adapter), or an adapted lens from Sony or another brand (which, as the name implies, requires an adapter).

For the NEX-FS-100, native lenses are "E" or "NEX" mount. The lens that is included with the NEX-FS100UK version of the camera is the . If you get this lens with the camera, you will not need an adapter. All exposure metering and autofocus functions will be available with this, or any other, "E" mount lens.

Like almost all still lenses, the 18-200mm kit zoom is manual and varifocal (which means you lose focus on a fixed subject as you zoom in or out).

You will probably miss your XH-A1's 20x power zoom and parfocal lens, which maintains focus on a fixed subject as you zoom in or out.

If you want to use a Sony "A" mount lens (to include the A mount version of the ), you will have to get a . You will have exposure metering, but you are likely to have slow autofocus with these lenses.

For other still lenses, you will need specific adapters for each brand. Look for or adapters on Amazon, and you will find a range of adapters in every price range. Low end adapters work, but will sometimes bind to your lenses or wobble on the camera. You get what you pay for.

There are a lot more in-depth resources out there -- I hope this answers a few of your basic questions and provides a starting point for further research.

Good luck,

Bill

Ryan Creason June 3rd, 2011 10:19 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Thank you so much Bill. I really do appreciate the feedback. I didn't realize the kit lens isn't parfocal. That's really too bad. Are all lower cost lenses that way? I haven't seen 'varifocal' or 'parfocal' in lens descriptions, so now I'm really wondering what I should go for. I know for <1k, i'm paying for what I get. I might just have to use the kit lens until I can get one of the Zeiss lenses that I hear so much about. I just don't know for what kind of work I do if I can survive on a varifocal lens.

I did originally have a problem with my XH-A1 lens. It wasn't holding focus like it should have. Apparently it's a big problem with that camcorder and I didn't realize. It was really annoying because you can't zoom and focus simultaneously with that lens.

EDIT: I'd probably be able to go up to ~1.5k for a parfocal zoom lens of some sort, as long as the adapter wasn't another 500.

Bill Bruner June 4th, 2011 04:16 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Ryan -- sadly, this is one of the "translation" problems as these new hybrid cameras increase the overlap between the still and motion picture communities. Still folks (I've been one since the early 1970s) don't expect their zooms to hold focus on stationary objects across focal lengths. They just re-focus between shots, no big deal.

TV and movie folks (I was in film school in the 70s), expect their lenses to be able to zoom in on a stationary subject, focus, pull back, start the camera and hold focus as they zoom back in.

There are a few still lenses that may be parfocal -- but this is based on hearsay, not specs, as far as I can tell.

If you want a zoom lens that is designed for motion pictures, the least expensive lens that I could find (that will cover the FS100's sensor) is the http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/665583-REG/DigiOptical_DO_18_50F_DO1850F_18_50mm_T3_PL.html.

$2000 less expensive than the RED 17-50mm, you would also need a PL to NEX adapter for this lens. Least expensive I could find is this $149 adapter from eBay.

If I were you, I would buy either the kit lens or the . I would also get an inexpensive PL mount adapter and rent different cinema zooms to see if they met my needs before I bought one, like this Century 28-70mm zoom for $169 a day from Budget Video Rentals:

Budget Video Rentals 800-772-1111 - 35mm PL Mount Lenses for Rent - Miami, Florida

Hope this is helpful.

Bill

Jon Braeley June 4th, 2011 06:03 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Now you may understand why prime lenses are still very much the lens choice for most pro's.

For documentary work, a genre which basically rose up at the same time as fast zoom lenses - they went hand in hand so to speak - and as a doc maker I love using zooms as they get me out of trouble all the time.

My FS-100 arrives this Monday and I am looking at a set of primes now rather than zooms. I am favoring the Zeiss Distagons with Nikon mounts. But no rush yet, as I will also see what happens on the adapters copming out this month with great features.

Dan Asseff June 4th, 2011 09:13 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I am getting my FS 100 Tuesday from AbelCine. They sold me a e mount to Nikon adapter for my Nikon glass . I'm considering the 16mm Sony http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=695859&is=REG&si=rev#costumerReview it is very cheap for a 2.8 lens. I am also looking for a fast sony e or a mount zoom for more run and gun type work. The one Jon showed http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/545868-REG/Sony_SAL2470Z_SAL_2470Z_24_70mm_f_2_8_Carl.html look very nice. Jon do you have a link for it? The testing of the lens.

Dan

Jon Braeley June 4th, 2011 11:35 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
It was AbelCine who did the tests but not about the lens but on dynamic range - Sony FS100 Ratings and Dynamic Range | CineTechnica

The Sony lens is used here. This lens is an A=mount lens so you still need an adapter A to E mount but the aperture and even auto focus will still work.

Right now I also hav ethe Nikon adapter and I am looking at some Zeiss primes - Distagon and Planars.

Ryan Creason June 4th, 2011 03:03 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I really wish there was a comprehensive list somewhere of parfocal lenses.

The E mount and A mount lenses are the only lenses that work with AF, am I correct?

Thank you again Bill for all the info. It's nice to find people willing to help :)

Jon Braeley June 4th, 2011 04:01 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I am told that A-Mount lenses, using the A to E Mount adapter are very slow. The AF works but it is slow.

Also there are 3rd party adapters in the works (two) that will have full electronic compatibility with lens and body, so this could also include AF.

The FS-100 has iris control within the camera, not on the lens, so many adapters will work with exposure changes but no auto-focusing.

Most of us do not use AF anyway.

Ryan Creason June 4th, 2011 04:32 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Yeah, auto focus isn't a big deal for me. The only time I use it is on ENG type shoots and I just use the one push button to grab focus when I'm zoomed out.

I really had wanted to upgrade to this camera, but now I'm thinking for my type of work I may not be able to until I can afford it + a decent zoom lens. I find even in interviews I need the zoom lens, to zoom in at crucial points. I know I can do a zoom in post, but I don't like to overdo it since I'd loose so much resolution.

Will only servo zoom lenses work with a zoom controller like a VariZoom? Also, since my XH-A1 has a servo zoom, is that why I can't control the zoom and focus simultaneously? I know... way too many questions >< haha.

Thanks again for everything.

Dan Asseff June 4th, 2011 05:08 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
The FS100 has a lance jack. The removable handle is a lance controller. I am not sure but i think the stock lens works like a traditional camcorder lens.
Dan

Dave Morrison June 4th, 2011 07:10 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I think you mean LANC.

Dan Asseff June 4th, 2011 10:32 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
yes you are right.

Dan

Jon Braeley June 5th, 2011 05:41 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I never use zoom in an interview and most of my films are interviews as a doc maker.

Focusing is critical in interviews - it has to be perfect and most zooms do not hold focus if you change focal length by zooming. I never advise this. I stop the interview during questions and change if I really have to.

The only time I need zooms is when we are moving from exterior to interior which happens fast on location - then I am stuck with a lens change ... so zooms really help - especially aa wide angle zoom.

Brian Drysdale June 5th, 2011 06:59 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I don't know which zoom lenses you've been using, but any cine or ENG video lens will hold it's focus assuming that the back focus has been correctly set up and there isn't a fault in the lens. Some focal lengths may be shaper than others, but they're not out of focus.

Brian Drysdale June 5th, 2011 09:34 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Here are some of the PL mount options:

ProVideo Coalition.com: Camera Log by Adam Wilt | Founder | Pro Cameras, HDV Camera, HD Camera, Sony, Panasonic, JVC, RED, Video Camera Reviews

Jon Braeley June 5th, 2011 11:43 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale (Post 1655636)
I don't know which zoom lenses you've been using, but any cine or ENG video lens will hold it's focus assuming that the back focus has been correctly set up and there isn't a fault in the lens. Some focal lengths may be shaper than others, but they're not out of focus.

I agree but I did not think we were talking about cine lenses here or video lenses - mainly still lenses where the majority do not hold accurate focus during a zoom - well not for interview work anyway where I use a more shallow DOF.

Brian Drysdale June 5th, 2011 01:00 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Yes, very few still zooms are parfocal. Here's a list that one rental company suggests:

LensRentals.com - Photo Lenses for Video

Jon Braeley June 5th, 2011 03:21 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
This could be the perfect solution for e-mount cine style lenses ...

Zeiss Baby Primes with e-mounts. They are based on the Zeiss CP2's. Available end of July.

Sony Alpha NEX Cameras and E Mount Lenses: Zeiss babyPrimes for Sony NEX E-mount

Brian Drysdale June 5th, 2011 04:08 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
P+S do their version of the Zeiss lenses.

http://www.pstechnik.de/downloads/TD...s_1009_web.pdf

Others that don't get mentioned are the Contax Zeiss lenses.

http://www.contaxcameras.co.uk/slr/slr.asp

These were modified to fit on Aaton 16mm film cameras by having the Contax mounts changed to Aaton. Unfortunately, they can't be used on PL mount, but an adapter will allow the Contex mount to be used on FS100. The click stops were still there, but in practise it was never a big deal, you just set the stop like any other cine lens. You can get gear rings made for them.

Jon Braeley June 7th, 2011 06:07 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Well one "El Cheapo" lens which is worth it even if its only to act as a dust cap, is this:

Sony SEL16F28 16mm f/2.8 Wide-Angle Lens - E Mount.

I just picked a brand new one up on ebay for $165!!

I saw footage with this lens on a FS-100 attached to a helicopter and it was superb.

Jon Braeley June 8th, 2011 11:58 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Having got my FS-100 set up now ... old Nikon lens popped on there ... my first reaction is ...

This feels very flimsy. I havent heard any comments on the camera's robustness so I was unaware but the camera feels like very thin plastic everywhere... it feels like you can snap anything off... even the LCD. I film on locations in some tough places so I am concerened .. dust, rain ... this will not stand chance. Even my camera bag is not enough protection I think... it needs foam and a pelican case. It does feel so weak. I am used to magnesium and aluminum I guess.

I like the camera. I like the image. I like the controls. But I do worry it will not last one shoot where I go...... and forget about heavy lenses ... cinema lens? Please!! I have changed my mind completely on that score.

I cannot imagine anything more than 2Ibs on this or a matte box without massive support.

Just a first concern - maybe I will relax once I shoot.

Jon Braeley June 8th, 2011 12:21 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
One extra concern...

I will choose adapters very carefully now. This is the only connection and this camera does feel weak here.

A big cinema lens, matte box, filters?... no way. Not without major support rails.

I have concerns over any lens set up heavier than say 2Ibs inc accessories. I will ask AbelCine about this and see if anyone has addressed this. I really do not want to see this cam go crashing to my concrete floor - it would shatter easily.

Otherwise... great ...!!

Chris Lawes June 16th, 2011 02:14 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Can anybody comment on how/if the sony Zeiss ZA mount zooms 16-35 + 24-70 color-match the Zeiss ZF.2 manual prime lenses?

Steve Kalle June 16th, 2011 12:54 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Lawes (Post 1658809)
Can anybody comment on how/if the sony Zeiss ZA mount zooms 16-35 + 24-70 color-match the Zeiss ZF.2 manual prime lenses?

If they don't match, I will buy your Sony Zeiss lenses and give you a great deal ;)

Both of those lenses are absolutely amazing. I used to shoot an A900 and owned the S-Z 24-70, S-Z 85/1.4, S-Z 135/1.8, Sony STF 135/T4.5, Sony G 70-200/2.8. I rented the S-Z 16-35 a few times and loved it. Some say the Nikon FX 14-24 /2.8 is the best wide angle zoom but it has a couple major flaws including major flare issues and no filter thread. However, another great option is the Nikon DX 12-24 f4 is an amazing wide angle zoom. Check out this test: Nikon Lens: Zooms - Nikon 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF AF-S DX Nikkor (Tested) - SLRgear.com!

If you look at other lens tests on that site, make sure you look at the APS-C camera and not the full-frame tests because the FS100 & F3 are similar in size to APS-C. Also, the smaller sensor is able to use the sweet spot of FF/FX/EF full-frame lenses.

For good Sony Alpha testing, go to photozone.de Sony Alpha Lens Tests (APS-C)

I have looked at many many tests of Zeiss SLR glass and I conclude that the Sony Zeiss glass is the best Zeiss makes for SLRs. An easy comparison is the ZF 85 f1.4 versus the Sony Zeiss 85 f1.4, which is a newer design; thus, explains why it is better.

Something else to consider is that SLR lenses do have random problems with manufacturing quality. In some tests on the aforementioned sites, you will see results on various lenses that are worse than they should be. On photozone.de, the author mentions when they might have a bad copy and when they have tried multiple copies.

Which brings me to another thought - I wonder if the level of manufacturing quality is the same with Cine lenses as SLR lenses. After all, many if not most Cine lenses are just re-housed SLR lenses.

So, when spending thousands of $$$ on lenses, it is extremely important to test them immediately for flaws. If I owned a retail store selling and/or renting lenses, I would setup a testing bay and include these results with all lenses. Personally, if I spent $5,000 on a couple lenses, I would pay an extra $50-100 per lens to see their individual testing results.

Jon Braeley June 16th, 2011 04:18 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I tend to agree that the Sony Zeiss lenses are getting great reviews - and with the A to E adapter I am inclined to try one on the FS-100. The Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 16-35mm f/2.8 ZA SSM - Sony SAL-1635Z, would be my choice.

Dan Asseff June 19th, 2011 03:30 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
What about this lens 50-150mm F2.8 EX DC APO HSM II - Telephoto Zoom Lenses - SigmaPhoto.com
I like that I could use a matte box with this lens because the zoom is internal.

Dan

Jon Braeley June 20th, 2011 05:33 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Dan I am told that this Sigma lens is no longer made and has been discontinued.

I agree the Sigma lenses are a good alternative for the FS-100. I am looking at two fo their zooms right now especially the 70200 F2.8 and the 17-50mm

Steve Kalle June 20th, 2011 10:09 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
The Sigma lenses are good if you don't need them wide open. Also, they have much higher failure rates than similar Nikon and Canon lenses. The best source for reliability that I have found is lensrentals.com which is the largest rental company in the country. Once a year they release the failure rate of their lenses and Tamron and Sigma have been the worst. Some Sigma and Tarmon lenses have had too high a failure rate that they stopped renting them. Also, Sigma's lens repair is by far the worst of any company. According to lensrentals.com, they are lucky if they get a Sigma back within 2 months whereas Canon and Nikon take only a couple weeks.

However, using these lenses for video, you would not be able to see certain flaws or damages such as the autofocus going bad or the IS/OS/VR not working, and these are some of the most common failures.

Personally, I base all of my lens rental & purchasing decisions on tests done by photozone.de and slrgear.com. For example, the Sony Alpha G 35mm 1.4 lens costs over $1000 but is a horrible lens by any standard, and $300 lenses are better in every category. Without seeing these tests, you would assume that a >$1000 prime lens should be excellent. Another good site is DxOMark but they don't have as detailed tests as the other two sites and they don't have as many lenses tested.

Brian Drysdale July 7th, 2011 08:10 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I don't know about finding a used set, but the Olympus Zuiko OM manual focus lenses cover the usual range of primes 21mm to 100mm, all at f2. Any Zuiko lenses I owned were well built and they did well on most lens tests.

Duncan Craig July 14th, 2011 08:26 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
So just to confirm, if I'm buying modern DX lenses for my Nikon DSLR they will work (via an adaptor) on the FS100 without vignetting?

I understand autofocus and iris control are lost, but so long as you don't have edge to edge soften and vignette issues like you get in old style 35mm ground glass adaptors such as my Brevis.

I already have the Nikon 18-200 VR, is it likely this will give similar results to the Sony 18-200 lens sold for this camera?

Thanks!

Brian Drysdale July 14th, 2011 10:51 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kalle (Post 1658961)
Which brings me to another thought - I wonder if the level of manufacturing quality is the same with Cine lenses as SLR lenses. After all, many if not most Cine lenses are just re-housed SLR lenses.

There are quite a few rehoused SLR lenses for cine work, but the high end purpose built cine lenses are different animals to these.

ZEISS Book | Film and Digital Times: News
http://www.fdtimes.com/articles/cook..._Web150dpi.pdf
http://www.fdtimes.com/articles/ange...ion-200dpi.pdf

It's very much a matter of carefully selecting the rehousing manufacturer if you plan to use rehoused SLR lenses, because you're paying for the quality of the mechanics. Some do a minimal job while say Zeiss do a major job on their CP2 range.

ZEISS Slice | Film and Digital Times: News

For many people this will come down to their budget, but a quality lens will out last the lifetimes of a number of these cameras, it's the long term investment


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