Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

This is where the RX10 is a bit of "luck" - it comes out of the STILL camera division, and I think most would say that as a STILL camera, it's a tad spendy.... but it's looking to be a very capable VIDEO camera, having extensive video oriented features.

It's a bit of an oddity, as arguably it's at least, if not MORE capable in many respects as any of the "consumer" Sony video cams, and holds up nicely against their "pro" lines feature wise. The list of "missing" features is pretty short, and this will be my next "video" camera, with the bonus of excellent stills. There are still a couple "dedicated" video features that would be nice - no clip limit, I like touchscreen controls... and hmmm, how about a LANC port, just because it would come in handy sometimes... unless an "app" would cover that ground!



I know that internet legend is that manufacturers deliberately cripple products so they can sell more product next year, but honestly there are plenty of other factors at work here, it's not a conspiracy...

It takes time to develop and then fine tune sensors and processors, manufacturing techniques, etc... so sometimes a product needs to ship while that process still has room to mature. Another 6-12 months, and they can and do refine the hardware and the software. And yes, they do have to consider that "next years model" needs to have some compelling reason to impress potential buyers, AND better performance/specs.

There are marketing considerations - what the vast majority of the market "expects" is different from what some of us on the bleeding edge might want/expect/dream of. Giving a laundry list of features that causes the buyers eyes to glaze over doesn't sell product. Implementing obscure features that appeal to a limited market may actually create other problems...

There are limits to how complex you can make a product for the CONSUMER market - having dealt recently with a return on a camera I sold because of USER MALFUNCTION, I can only imagine the nightmare manufacturers deal with. With complex electronics, you'd be surprised how badly a user can foul things up due to lack of knowledge, or just doing something "dumb". Look at how early video samples from the RX10 were generally bad, because still shooters with limited video experience shot "bad" samples - there you go... experienced video shooters seem to be finding the RX10 to be quite the new toy, with a little time to figure out settings and such.



I do hope Sony will open up access to "tweaking" features, but as someone who likes to "tinker", I'll have to say this is something a manufacturer must be EXTREMELY careful with - if a "hack" or "mod" fries or bricks a camera, who pays the bill... the guy who pushed it too hard, or the manufacturer that provided access to "hack/mod/tweak"? If your camera is no longer 100% stable (lets say it's 90%+), but does some nifty new things, will you be happy? If you buy a camera expecting it to work a certain way with your "smart" phone only to discover your phone isn't quite smart enough unless you upgrade to the newest version... will the manufacturer be blamed? I know I've fiddled with the RX100M2 and my "smart" phone, but it appears my "last years" Android phone ain't so bright...

My only question when looking at a "tool", is will it do the job and justify the investment... the RX100 proved it's worth, the M2 version is a decent upgrade, and the RX10 ticks so many boxes, it's almost a no-brainer for me. Haven't had a camera yet that didn't have room for improvement SOMEWHERE, but I'm liking the current Sony design philosophy exhibited in the RX series.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Completely agree with this. The buyer of my VG20 that I sold pre-owned claimed the camcorder wasn't recording properly. It was actually a codec issue on his computer as it worked fine when it was returned back to me, but by then I had already incurred costs accepting a return (wasted £35 on postage via Special Delivery w/ Insurance etc).

But I can only imagine the costs manufacturers must incur due to consumers lack of knowledge.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Hi all,
I'm thinking to sell my EX1r for my weddings video because is too heavy for me
I'm interested in Sony NEX-EA50, the new HXR-NX3, but even in this RX10
I need to know how I can adjust the iris and focus and if there is a manual/auto switch
The operations are fast or complicated?

Thanks in advance and sorry for my poor english

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Dave, I just bought one of these http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/913260-REG/sony_vctvpr100_highend_remote_tripod.html Sony tripods that has 4 cables to control Sony cameras. Maybe one of the ports on the RX10 can be controlled by this tripod ?

Ron Evans

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Just had a look at the pdf for the RX10 and it has a Micro USB terminal compatible with Multi terminal devices !!! Would that include the tripod I mentioned above ? The tripod came with a micro USB cable labeled multi !!

Ron Evans

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Hmmm, the mysterious new "multi-interface" interface....going to have to start looking into that more closely... offhand it looks like it may well be possible to "hack in" on that USB port... or the new MI shoe... or both... That tripod description certainly implies it is there.

Darn Sony and their "undocumented" features - shades of the A/V jack that was so interesting to hack a while back before Sony released any compatible LANC remotes! I stumbled into cracking the code by reverse engineering a sport pack underwater shell... Sony US product support had no idea the functionality was even there, but it was in the service manuals...

Now to go figure out where to get service manuals!? Those usually document the pinouts, and you find out all the fun stuff that's hidden under the hood! I'd be happy with something akin to the tiny RMAV remotes - on/off, start/stop, zoom, and photo... sounds like there could easily be one in the future!

Right now I just have to wrestle with my aversion to paying "retail" and pull the trigger on an RX10 - I was so hoping that there would be a flood of these "lightly used" from people who would be "disappointed" when they couldn't figure out how to use the camera...

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Yes Ron your tripod will control the functions through the multi terminal, I'm using remote commander RM-VPR1 which clips to my tripod with the RX10.
If you have any of the old handycam AV/R accessories, there is a multi adapter VMC-AVM1.

The hot shoe is multi interface so the handycam Video light HVL-LE1 and Stereo mic ECM-EYST1m work.
Very useful for me for my travels that I can use the same accessories both from the VG30 and Rx100 and CX cams, there is even a new battery charger that will charge V,W and M batteries BC-QM1.
very neat.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Thanks Paul for those model #'s! The remote and charger will go onto the wish list immediately! With that remote, the RX10 becomes that much more useful for video!

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Does the remote commander RM-VPR1 allow for variable speed zoom with the RX10? Can a "creep" speed be achieved and if so is it smooth?

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

this new multi port has to be one of the most disregarded changes sony made. from some reports, it's just a replacement/change to the D connector they usually use, and just carrys the pins for a/v and lanc, which is fine, but there is seemingly no adapter out there to to get at the lanc....

if these reports are accurate, then a cable like this but for the new port is what's needed to use a regular lanc controller:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/861096-REG/Libec_A_3AV_LANC_AV_Adapter_Cable_for.html
but i've dug around and if such a cable exists, it's been hidden under 6 feet of dirt.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

more digging found this thread, talking about it. the connector is a sony proprietary modification of usb micro, Facilitating intervalometers/computer control for NEX line: Sony Alpha/NEX E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

how nice of them to make things difficult

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

No set speeds, with the RX10 if you lightly press you can get a slightly slower even zoom(about 70%)

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

@Darrin -

Yep, it looks like it's just a modification of the A/V jack implementation, just using unused pins of the micro USB, which is now a "standardized" connector - I heard from one source this was a "legislated" change so that we don't have so many proprietary USB chargers in landfills... now my phones ALL use it, and all the newer Sony cameras.

I don't see anything "difficult", other than the reverse engineering required to figure out pins and if they still use a "trigger" signal for various functions as the LANC on A/V did. It actually makes sense for Sony to finally avoid OVERLY proprietary standards - if you can charge your camera in an emergency with a phone charger, that could come in handy... and if there are a few "spare" pins not dedicated to any other functions, why not design in some more features!?


Your link was for the I/R, which is yet another "input" - previously you had A/V jack, AiShoe, and the I/R remote, now you have Micro USB, MiShoe and I/R - just changes of connectors really, and while "inconvenient", and I suppose a bit expensive if you have to buy all new remotes/etc., I'm actually pleased that the stuff is already available "off the shelf". And if the Sony community expands, as it no doubt will with the three innovative cameras just released, there WILL be more "hacker" interest, and probably more options!

I Googled the model #'s Paul provided, plenty of "hits", including the cable to adapt from A/V (so the RMAV I have would adapt, for instance) to the MicroUSB. Debating the "best" option for that... vs. the "new" remote. Either way, having a remote option for RX series cameras makes them that much closer to replacing video cams for many shooting scenarios. The RX10 will be more generally useful to me than a video camera, but I still see the slot for a PJ series in the "fleet", at least for now... though it just dropped a little farther!

Many moons ago I dreamed of having just a couple cameras to cover all the angles... this of course leads to a camera COLLECTION and a case of GAS, as you find different cameras are needed to do different things... the RX10 comes much closer to covering most of the scenarios and looks like it will cover them fairly well, so much of my thought right now is focused on... which cameras can be "re-homed" rather than sitting on the shelf!?

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Hi Dave - as of this post, there are five "lightly used" units at Amazon Warehouse Deals for $1195.07.

Good luck and best of the holidays!

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

I really like this camera, I'm thinking serious about getting it. There is on thing that is holding me back, I want to know if this camera overheats at all, when recording to the 29 minute limit, The limit I can handle, but the overheating, No Way! I had Sony's Nex-7, nice video, but hughe problem with overheating, especially being erratic. In some ways I cant believe I'm thinking if buying another Sony camera.

More than one test would be great to know.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

so it's confirmed that these are actually brand new, i just got mine and even called just to ask them about it, lady claimed since they ran out of open box, they sent me a new one instead. invoice even shows new SKU. similar reports from others as well on this deal. if you were waiting for an RX10 on sale, i doubt we'll see this low for a long while:

$937
Sony Cyber-Shot DSC-RX10 Digital Camera, Black - Open Box DSC-RX10/B OB

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

I ordered my RX10 yesterday and apparently a $300 rebate just showed up in the dealer system, even though it hasn't been "announced" yet. Perhaps the "torn" open box deal is how adorama is "not" advertising it.

Barry

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

interesting! what retailer was that?

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Shot some hand held wide with image stabilization turned on:


Did a rambling voice over about features / benefits.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

This looks like it is set up for control of the camera Shooting Grip with Mini Tripod - Action Cam Accessories Sony Store - Sony CA

Ron Evans

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Thanks for that Phil; the active stabilization works quite well.

I have a question; why did you choose 24p rather than 60p for that kind of shoot. The stutter was too pronounced and annoying, I thought, especially when you panned as you did, a lot. Kind of defeats the purpose of active stabilization I would have thought.

Cheers...

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

I have the D plug version of this which was made for the CX cams. It works, but unless Sony has used stronger materials for the multi version it has a lot of flex, it only has 4 set clicks for angle and as this was designed for flat based handycams with the weight towards the back of the bracket the RX10 topples if you set it flat to use as a tripod.
You may find it usefull only for hand holding 'steadycam' shots

Paul Rickford

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

In the market for this cam...anyone knows of an open box, etc., please post or message me! Thanks!

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Do any of you have any wedding footage shot with this camera posted online? Most of the demos I have seen online have been of outdoor scenery and not really concentrated on people. I would love to see some professionally shot indoor wedding footage from the camera so I could gauge how much better it is than my Sony EX1.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

I have some rx10 footage from the last wedding I did last year (end december) and will start editing it in a week, if you want I can share some footage through a password protected link?

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Noa, yes, please, I for one would like to see a sample of your footage. I would also appreciate your comments regarding your overall assessment of the camera not just for wedding work but as a general purpose machine compared say to your GH3.

I might add that thus far I am more than delighted with the RX10 for just fooling around, the birds and the bees, landscapes, trains and rain, cats and dogs and the like. As a photographic tool I find it not too shabby too.

To answer your question; yes please; I want.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Got to take the RX10 out on a day hike... nothing "special", but used it mostly for stills, and a couple little clips. Got to say I'm very happy with the results. 86 shots/clips, only a couple slightly out of focus (through glass shots are always tricky!), and the rest are solid "keepers"... I don't usually shoot a lot, but I kept seeing good shots, and even better results on the LCD, this is a very addictive camera to shoot with.

Viewfinder was nice for outdoor shooting, although the articulating LCD made a few shots easier too.

Circular Polarizer was mounted and used, at least some of the time. Had to take it off for some shots where it picked up more glare... a couple extra layers of glass can do that. Fill flash from the pop-up was handy in a couple backlit "people" shots, and was powerful enough to do the trick.

The surprise was a full digital zoom (yeah, I leave that turned on, I can see the level of zoom in the display and decide whether I can live with the consequences!) shot of a hawk on a distant rock - so small we weren't sure if there was something there or not... actually got a couple "usable" shots where you can see the eye/head position and some detail... doesn't look "bad" at all, probably better than the average pocket camera at "normal" distances!

The video clips were just for giggles, not worth sharing, but I think it's time to do a couple controlled shots against the 7xx series Handycam... I have a "feeling" the footage is better, but it could be just the fun of the "new toy".

It's nice to feel very confident that the camera will "get the shot", and get it well. The RX100 and the Mk2 have been my "go to" carry around cameras, but of course are limited by the short zoom and aperture ramp (not like those were a "big" deal in a pocket rocket, an HX300 covered the gap when called upon). The RX10 is bigger and heavier, but still portable, and now has a small sling bag with the RX100M2 snuck in behind it, and a selection of batteries and accessories, so that's the bag that will be "handy"...

Time to go look at bigger memory cards and hard drives!

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

I shot the RX10 on a series of scenes for an image/promo piece last week.
It featured a 2 horse sleigh in brilliant sun and deep snow.
It was a quick decision and I had to use the EVF, which frankly, on a day like that, was pretty ineffective.
After the first several shots, I did something else I've never done and switched it to autofocus.

Bottom line is the footage is pretty impressive, great detail, zero moire even with a number of actors and fabrics and motion.
The lens range and IQ was just great as is it's being the only camera that allows for one button slow motion on the fly with the ability to get right back to 24p 50fps with one touch.
Another notable plus is how well the lens handles flare...like better than almost any lenses I've shot.
Overall, because of the comprehensive R&G features, we got a lot more, clean, quality footage than I'd expect with any other small camera, including the C100 (given the 60p).

I shoot Natural -3 -3 -3 and start with a Filnconvert grade to match my other cameras (in this case the BMPCC for the close-ups)

When I got back from that location I immediately rigged the RX10 with a magnetic plate and the Kinotehnik LCDVF BM and now it functions like a real video camera, by far the best you'll use for any where near this price. IMO, for this type of work, with the LCDVF, the RX10 might be the best R&G camera out there.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

I am very happy what is coming out with this little Gem..
Last saturday I was at a great concert and filmed for pure pleasure with one of my 2 RX 10.
Movie Mode 1080 50p. I like to ability to change the gain with the extra Dial "audience and the couple".
Handsfree 5000 ISO Tungsten VIVID Color I was taking photos and forgot to go back to Natural. In FCP X I reduced the Color and Contrast, EQ on Sound, Video Stabilized.The Automatic is very smooth and als good exposure, no pumping from the AF. A Canon 70 D has much more noise above 400 ISO. Bought two while so relatively cheap, for Interview Situation I will use one for a closer framing and can intercut.
Close up zoomed in the AF has some issues, just zoom back and in again I bought 2 Tiffen Ultracontrast Filters 1/2 and 3 need soon a 2 as good compromiss. A number 2 whould be good also for the CANON DSLR's wich crushed the blacks. The Ultracons lift the blacks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1WC...ature=youtu.be

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Youtube always change colors and Contrast...

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Sure that would be great
Thanks

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Very excited this camera will be my next purchase. Thanks for your reports, everyone.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Which DVINFO sponsor are you considering ordering from? wink wink...

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Just got my new RX10 last week.

I was originally expecting to have a nice "all in one" camera for vacations. Something that took "good" photos and shot "good" video. After spending a day with this camera, I realized that I completely underestimated the image quality and complete functionality of the RX10. In fact, I became downright shocked at how much better this camera actually was, compared to my original expectations.

The good:

The build quality is superb. It's magnesium body feels great in your hands. (close your eyes and it feels like a baby A99)

The lens is fast, bright and very sharp from corner to corner at all lengths. The constant f2.8 is sweet. I also LOVE having an aperture ring on a small camera like this.

You can configure features to your hearts content. The function button brings up two rows of user programmable icons to control most of the functions you could ever want.

Manual audio level control, great meters and headphone monitoring.

Full and seperate manual control of ISO, shutter speed and Iris. No "Handycam/NX30" crippling tricks!

Full scan sensor and scalling...no line skipping = VERY sharp video. (look at slashcam.com's resolution charts...it will shock you)

Clean 8bit 4:2:2 HDMI out for external recording.

Perfect lens to sensor optical match up.

Great image processing and excellent noise reduction



The not so good:

Lens zoom is not variable. It's a smooth slow crawl. (the way I like it anyway but having variable speeds would have been nice)

29 minute recording time. Yeah,..they all have it and we all know why. (I still hate it though)

"OK" image stabilization. Optical-only provides best resolution. Adding "active" mode will lower resolution slightly.

AVCHD Codec. This one baffles me. Sony has no problem making a great h.264 chipset on their FS100. The AVCHD standard generally is pretty damn good considering it's 8bit 4:2:0 limitation. The FS100 is especially durable and tough. The RX10 does NOT have this Sony FS100 chipset. In fact, it's surprisingly bad. Here is what I have seen so far. When recording internally with AVCHD 60p and recording externally with prores at 30p...with slow moving scenes and even moderate moving scenes, both recordings look similar. However, if something moves quickly, the AVCHD will suddenly "soften" and in some cases even block up badly. The HDMI ProRes will NOT disply these problems. These same frames are sharp and clean. Also, the internal AVCHD dosn't hold the blacks well. Even light grading on the shadows can uncover compression noise in the blacks. (nothing at all like the FS100's ability to hold it's quality in shadows) Again, ProRes from the RX10 (Atomos Samurai Blade) is much better quality.

Now,...let me say the the RX10's codec isn't "that" bad. Allot of the motion problems are seen mostly in a "frame by frame" viewing. When watching it in real time, it's fairly well covered up. And again, most scenes with slow to moderate motion are OK. Also, I noticed that 24p AVCHD is far less likely to break down like the 60p does. I fail to understand why Sony allowed this to happen. Did they play with the long GOP structure? Was this a mistake or intentional?




All in all,....it's a damn good camera. I'm very happy with 95% of it and still surprised at how good the over all package is. (now if it just did 4K!!!)

CT

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

@Phil, looking at open box deals from Amazon, but I would love to buy from one of our great sponsors!

Cliff, your report seems very consistent with most everyone else! The 29 minute limit and the slow zoom both bother me as well. With nothing else quite like it, it's the only game in town in it's price range. I wonder how a product like this will affect other manufacturers. I imagine in a short while something even MORE amazing will be released. Now that Sony and Panasonic have both released contstant F/2.8 bridge cameras I can't wait to see what's coming too the world of regular video cameras. I have believed for a long time that prosumer/low end pro video cameras with faster zoom lenses were possible, this product only confirms it.

Thanks for sharing!

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

I've been very interested in the RX10 as a replacement for my old Panasonic TM900 (and maybe my GH3), so I rented an RX10 from borrowlenses a few weeks ago, but I didn't like the 28mbps AVCHD compression and I couldn't bring myself to buy a camera with a 30 minute limit, so I'm waiting for the Sony CX900 to ship in March.

Overshadowed somewhat by the RX10 and the simultaneous release of the 4K AX100, the CX900 looks like it's going to be the "RX10 in a camcorder body" - with the addition of unlimited recording time, 120fps and multiple codecs (to include 50mbps XAVC-S).

I'll miss the RX10's 8.3x constant f2.8 lens - but a 12x optical f2.8-4.5 power zoom doesn't suck ;)

The sample video from Sony looks really good, and they even have camera movement and fast moving objects (e.g., a hang glider) in the scenes, but we'll have to see more before making a final "buy" decision:




Best,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

The Sony has a 1" sensor! This is revolutionary for a $1500 videocamera! Thanks for confusing me Bill!

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

I'm liking the CX900 ... might be the perfect replacement if needed, for the CX760 I own.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

Will this sensor appear in a larger prosumer or low-end pro camcorder? Would be very interesting.

Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera
 

The CX900 and the RX10 appear to have many internal similarities. (aside from the codec)

If there is one thing that drives me nuts about many "Handycams" are those goofy triangle audio meters. There are no markings for db and very few steps to judge input levels. They are not worthless, but they are very close. I'm certain this is designed to be that way ;-)

I'm sooo happy that the RX10 has "real" meters that are large and easy to measure levels.

It seems to me that the CX900 is an RX10 with much better codec and no recording limit. The CX900's lens (to me) is a downgrade though.