PDX10 shooters, unite!

Boyd Ostroff · November 10th, 2003, 04:41 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Shawn Mielke : I'm recognizing finally the messiness that high levels of sharpness bring to the image. In fact any amount of sharpness seems to do more harm than good. -->>>

I couldn't agree more.... but this was kicked around pretty thoroughly here, and I suppose it comes down to a matter of personal preference.

Paul Frederick · November 10th, 2003, 05:24 PM

I tend to vary my settings a bit in the custom pre-set window but for the most part I leave sharpness down 2 notches, unless I use a WA converter, then I bring it back up a notch due to the inherent softness from the adaptor. I also bring color up one notch and have white balance one notch toward red. This gives a much more pleasing color balance (For my taste anyway!) I find Sonys to be too blue and cold. These settings really warm it up without going overboard. Subtlety is key here but the cummulative effect is superior.

I tend to run manual everything, though I start by putting it in auto then switch to manual and adjust from there. The focus ring is VERY frustrating on this camera, so this technique tends to work well.

Chris Long · November 10th, 2003, 08:04 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Frederick :
The focus ring is VERY frustrating on this camera... -->>>

Amen. A major improvement is available here in the next iteration, if attention is paid.

Shawn Mielke · November 11th, 2003, 05:10 AM

Boyd,
I know sharpness has been talked about before, indeed you may have spotted my very own participation in the thread you referenced, but one or two previous discussions doesn't automatically forever neutralize the subject. That portion of my inquiry in this thread was intended for a specific person with specific preferences that I was specifically interested in, and it was only part of my inquiry, intended to act more as an example of what I meant when asking about likes/dislikes in settings. Just for clarification, with all due respect!
:-)
Shawn

Paul Frederick · November 11th, 2003, 11:36 AM

Shawn,

I think Boyd was pointing out that thread in case others had an interest in it and didn't see that thread. That's how I saw it anyway!

I'm going to start a new thread based a topic we touched on in this thread and hope that is cool to do!

I'm curious what others have their custom presets settings at.

Shawn Mielke · November 11th, 2003, 02:32 PM

I think you're right, Paul. My mistake!

Boyd Ostroff · November 11th, 2003, 02:44 PM

Yeah, really. I didn't mean not to discuss sharpness settings! Like Paul said I just wanted to reference the other discussion, and was resisting my own urge to post some comments when I realized I'd pretty much spoken my mind on that topic already.

I'm always interested to hear what others do and a thread on custom presets is a great idea... why wouldn't it be cool? ;-)

Shawn Mielke · November 12th, 2003, 12:19 AM

Hee haw! :-}

Ralf Strandell · May 15th, 2004, 04:36 AM

Graeme Nattress wrote:

"Just got a Century 0.65 wide angle for the PDX10 and a Century DV Matte box - it looks rather smart."

"The Matte box works great. Just got Tiffen 4x4 ND 0.9, Linear Polarizer and an Ultra Contrast 3 (will also be getting an Ultra Contrast 5)."

Great, someone has already solved my dilemma. I am maybe interested in getting similar equipment. I don't want to pay $1000 for the mattebox, though...

So, a few questions

1) Does the "Century DV Matte box" + "0.65x wideangle" combination cause any vignetting?

2) The Ultra Contrast filter is said to need good protection from stray light. Does the Century Matte box do the job? There will be a lot (like 25% of the frame) of very bright highlights in my footage, unfortunately.

3) Is there any smaller mattebox available? The PDX10 is a small camera - and I have to carry it - in the woods, for example. No tripod, that is. Would the "Century Rectangular Sunshade" offer good enough protection or do I really need a large, complex mattebox?

Gareth Watkins · May 15th, 2004, 05:12 AM

Without wanting to hijack the PDX thread, I can give you the set I've got for my 950, for those that might be interested and which must come pretty close in every day use to the PDX, without the 16:9 and DVcam (how many people actully use DVcam anyway?).

TRV950
Techpro 0.5 wideangle
Sign Video XLR Pro box
Shotgun Mic with Rycote cover
various tieclip mics (wired until I can afford a wireless set up)
Manfrotto tripod with 501 head....

This set up is producing pretty good images and sound. With hindsite I'd have probably gone for the PDX simply for the 16:9 (I like that a lot).
The XLR Pro box gives a good mix of sound and IMHO is better placed and balances the camera better than the PDX add on, on the hotshoe. (I can live with the few inches of unbalanced sound through the minijack.. as I'm not convinced that in practial shooting terms one can detect any difference). I've used upto 7 metres of balanced cable and the sound was as clean as a whistle.

I've not in all honesty found it's low light capabilities have hampered me...I've shot in lowish light of gyms and sports halls and not found any hassle....If I had to shoot in worse light than that I'd add some.

Voila that's waht I'm shooting with at the moment, until I progress to other cameras.. like the look of the PD170... dream on...

cheers
Gareth

Michael Brumback Jr. · May 16th, 2004, 09:08 PM

Well I just finished 2 hours of shooting today for the Star Wars Fan Film I have been working on for the last month or so. atomfilms.com is having their annual fan film and I am almost done with the filming and then I have roughly 25 days to finish editing, music, sound, greenscreen, effects, color timing, and a host of other tidbits before it's done.

it's a monster growing out of control. today was a party full of teens, but I only had about 7 show up and so I tried to make it look like more by changing hats and coats, moving them around so you couldn't see their faces. now I have a host of greenscreen to do, mattes to paint, lightsaber or two, holoprojections, amputations, sand crawler and a jawa, and giant 100 pound garbage bags to create digitally. plus a few electically bolts for good measure

wasn't suppose to be this much work, but a few friends balked on the "work" part so I'm heading this one alone.

I must say the PDX10 and Century .65 wide is working great, even my poor attempt at learning to light is easliy fixed with some color curve tweaks. the Tiffen .9 nd works wonders outside, althought I still had to pull it down a bit, wish they made a 1.2 or 1.3 so you wouldn't have to stake a .9 and .3

shot for a few hours outside. it's very hard to make an untrained dog pee on you leg. so I fixed that with a cut of his leg going up, helped by a hand, and then a cut to a stream of fake dog pee (care of minutemaid lemonade and a pump water pistol)

it was little cold and sticky, I think I almost would have rather had real pee, at least it would have been warm!

:)

oh let's add the fact that one of my backup drives on my server died last night, oh, forgot, along with it's backup mirrored raid. so what are the odds on that? I don't know, both drives in a mirror raid dying at once. I didn't loose the project, but I lost all my emails for the last year, system install backups, last 4 months of photos, all the photos of my dog (sniff sniff) receipts, bookmarks, scripts, some client work (web sites), and all that jazz.

take it from me, I have batteries, fans, and mirrored raided everything with hardware raids to keep those harddrives happy, MAKE BACKUPS at all cost. 20 years of computer owning, 2nd time I've lost a drive, worst one yet.

Michael Brumback Jr. · May 16th, 2004, 09:15 PM

oh I'm shooting in DVCAM for that extra little protection of running the tape back and fourth, not using Sony's new DVCAM tapes using the DVM-40Ns.

Also shooting in 16x9.

I have a few 500watt Smith Victors along with all my homemade stands and light I welded together. I use a big piece of poster board to do as much bouce lighting as I can when doing close ups. Helps fill in some shadows and smooth out the lights a bit. I tried my hand at colored lighting, but it didn't come out to well, I guess it was ok, but I think with some color timing tweeks it will be much better.

Also recording audio straight to he camera using a AT shotgun mic on a stand set off camera. For voice over recording I use my AT studio mic and pop filter in a walk in closet. (closet thing I have to a sound proof room, really good)

Everything is being edited on a custom AMD system with a MatroxRTx100 and Premiere Pro. It sucks, but right as I am finishing this PPro 1.5 will come out with all these new realtime things for the RTx100!!!! oh well.

Compositing and effects are being done in Combustion 3 and 3dsMAX 6.

I just hope I can do some good clean greenscreen mattes next week!!

Sean McHenry · May 17th, 2004, 06:20 PM

Been a long few weeks here too. Moving soon and with me just getting the studio built, man, it's going to hurt to move it. The good news is, it will be built better. The new pad will have a deeper lower level so I can do some nice acoustic tile work, carpeted and Sonexed walls and even, gasp - a sound booth!

Now, about those batteries... I am doing a wedding soon - I need the cash flow - so I need something a bit longer than the stock 1 hour battery. I went to Bescor and ordered the PRB9 12v 9aH battery with the CLC100 12v adapter cable.

Despite what's listed on their site, I walked away for $107 plus S&H. About $10 they tell me. Should arrive tomorrow. Film at Eleven.

Don't know if B&H sells these, sorry Boyd. I know my place doesn't. Bought them from Bescor direct.

On the studio side, buying either a demo DSR20 or a new DSR11 tomorrow too. Got folks backing up to get in the place and I need a deck to call my own.

Even more so since I still can't get the main editing system to talk back to the camera correctly. Still recognized by the PC as being there as a playback DV device but the signal still isn't getting back down the hose into the camera.

Once I clear the projects off and prepare for the move, she gets blown up and rebuilt.

That's it from these keys.

Get yourselves to http://www.weeklyDV.com and see the short called "At Confession". Pretty good stuff there.

Sean McHenry

November 11th, 2003, 05:10 AM	#19
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Boyd, I know sharpness has been talked about before, indeed you may have spotted my very own participation in the thread you referenced, but one or two previous discussions doesn't automatically forever neutralize the subject. That portion of my inquiry in this thread was intended for a specific person with specific preferences that I was specifically interested in, and it was only part of my inquiry, intended to act more as an example of what I meant when asking about likes/dislikes in settings. Just for clarification, with all due respect! :-) Shawn __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

November 11th, 2003, 02:32 PM	#21
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	I think you're right, Paul. My mistake! __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

November 12th, 2003, 12:19 AM	#23
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Hee haw! :-} __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

May 17th, 2004, 06:20 PM	#28
Sean McHenry Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hilliard, Ohio Posts: 1,193	New batteries on the way. Been a long few weeks here too. Moving soon and with me just getting the studio built, man, it's going to hurt to move it. The good news is, it will be built better. The new pad will have a deeper lower level so I can do some nice acoustic tile work, carpeted and Sonexed walls and even, gasp - a sound booth! Now, about those batteries... I am doing a wedding soon - I need the cash flow - so I need something a bit longer than the stock 1 hour battery. I went to Bescor and ordered the PRB9 12v 9aH battery with the CLC100 12v adapter cable. Despite what's listed on their site, I walked away for $107 plus S&H. About $10 they tell me. Should arrive tomorrow. Film at Eleven. Don't know if B&H sells these, sorry Boyd. I know my place doesn't. Bought them from Bescor direct. On the studio side, buying either a demo DSR20 or a new DSR11 tomorrow too. Got folks backing up to get in the place and I need a deck to call my own. Even more so since I still can't get the main editing system to talk back to the camera correctly. Still recognized by the PC as being there as a playback DV device but the signal still isn't getting back down the hose into the camera. Once I clear the projects off and prepare for the move, she gets blown up and rebuilt. That's it from these keys. Get yourselves to http://www.weeklyDV.com and see the short called "At Confession". Pretty good stuff there. Sean McHenry __________________ ‘I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m shooting on D.V.’ - my hero - David Lynch http://www.DeepBlueEdit.com

November 10th, 2003, 04:41 PM	#16
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	<<<-- Originally posted by Shawn Mielke : I'm recognizing finally the messiness that high levels of sharpness bring to the image. In fact any amount of sharpness seems to do more harm than good. -->>> I couldn't agree more.... but this was kicked around pretty thoroughly here, and I suppose it comes down to a matter of personal preference.

November 10th, 2003, 05:24 PM	#17
Paul Frederick Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WestChazy, NY Posts: 291	I tend to vary my settings a bit in the custom pre-set window but for the most part I leave sharpness down 2 notches, unless I use a WA converter, then I bring it back up a notch due to the inherent softness from the adaptor. I also bring color up one notch and have white balance one notch toward red. This gives a much more pleasing color balance (For my taste anyway!) I find Sonys to be too blue and cold. These settings really warm it up without going overboard. Subtlety is key here but the cummulative effect is superior. I tend to run manual everything, though I start by putting it in auto then switch to manual and adjust from there. The focus ring is VERY frustrating on this camera, so this technique tends to work well.

November 10th, 2003, 08:04 PM	#18
Chris Long Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Middletown, Maryland USA Posts: 177	<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Frederick : The focus ring is VERY frustrating on this camera... -->>> Amen. A major improvement is available here in the next iteration, if attention is paid.

November 11th, 2003, 11:36 AM	#20
Paul Frederick Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WestChazy, NY Posts: 291	Shawn, I think Boyd was pointing out that thread in case others had an interest in it and didn't see that thread. That's how I saw it anyway! I'm going to start a new thread based a topic we touched on in this thread and hope that is cool to do! I'm curious what others have their custom presets settings at.

November 11th, 2003, 02:44 PM	#22
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Yeah, really. I didn't mean not to discuss sharpness settings! Like Paul said I just wanted to reference the other discussion, and was resisting my own urge to post some comments when I realized I'd pretty much spoken my mind on that topic already. I'm always interested to hear what others do and a thread on custom presets is a great idea... why wouldn't it be cool? ;-)

May 15th, 2004, 04:36 AM	#24
Ralf Strandell Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 180	Graeme Nattress wrote: "Just got a Century 0.65 wide angle for the PDX10 and a Century DV Matte box - it looks rather smart." "The Matte box works great. Just got Tiffen 4x4 ND 0.9, Linear Polarizer and an Ultra Contrast 3 (will also be getting an Ultra Contrast 5)." Great, someone has already solved my dilemma. I am maybe interested in getting similar equipment. I don't want to pay $1000 for the mattebox, though... So, a few questions 1) Does the "Century DV Matte box" + "0.65x wideangle" combination cause any vignetting? 2) The Ultra Contrast filter is said to need good protection from stray light. Does the Century Matte box do the job? There will be a lot (like 25% of the frame) of very bright highlights in my footage, unfortunately. 3) Is there any smaller mattebox available? The PDX10 is a small camera - and I have to carry it - in the woods, for example. No tripod, that is. Would the "Century Rectangular Sunshade" offer good enough protection or do I really need a large, complex mattebox?

May 15th, 2004, 05:12 AM	#25
Gareth Watkins Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: France Posts: 578	Without wanting to hijack the PDX thread, I can give you the set I've got for my 950, for those that might be interested and which must come pretty close in every day use to the PDX, without the 16:9 and DVcam (how many people actully use DVcam anyway?). TRV950 Techpro 0.5 wideangle Sign Video XLR Pro box Shotgun Mic with Rycote cover various tieclip mics (wired until I can afford a wireless set up) Manfrotto tripod with 501 head.... This set up is producing pretty good images and sound. With hindsite I'd have probably gone for the PDX simply for the 16:9 (I like that a lot). The XLR Pro box gives a good mix of sound and IMHO is better placed and balances the camera better than the PDX add on, on the hotshoe. (I can live with the few inches of unbalanced sound through the minijack.. as I'm not convinced that in practial shooting terms one can detect any difference). I've used upto 7 metres of balanced cable and the sound was as clean as a whistle. I've not in all honesty found it's low light capabilities have hampered me...I've shot in lowish light of gyms and sports halls and not found any hassle....If I had to shoot in worse light than that I'd add some. Voila that's waht I'm shooting with at the moment, until I progress to other cameras.. like the look of the PD170... dream on... cheers Gareth

May 16th, 2004, 09:08 PM	#26
Michael Brumback Jr. New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago Subs Posts: 19	Well I just finished 2 hours of shooting today for the Star Wars Fan Film I have been working on for the last month or so. atomfilms.com is having their annual fan film and I am almost done with the filming and then I have roughly 25 days to finish editing, music, sound, greenscreen, effects, color timing, and a host of other tidbits before it's done. it's a monster growing out of control. today was a party full of teens, but I only had about 7 show up and so I tried to make it look like more by changing hats and coats, moving them around so you couldn't see their faces. now I have a host of greenscreen to do, mattes to paint, lightsaber or two, holoprojections, amputations, sand crawler and a jawa, and giant 100 pound garbage bags to create digitally. plus a few electically bolts for good measure wasn't suppose to be this much work, but a few friends balked on the "work" part so I'm heading this one alone. I must say the PDX10 and Century .65 wide is working great, even my poor attempt at learning to light is easliy fixed with some color curve tweaks. the Tiffen .9 nd works wonders outside, althought I still had to pull it down a bit, wish they made a 1.2 or 1.3 so you wouldn't have to stake a .9 and .3 shot for a few hours outside. it's very hard to make an untrained dog pee on you leg. so I fixed that with a cut of his leg going up, helped by a hand, and then a cut to a stream of fake dog pee (care of minutemaid lemonade and a pump water pistol) it was little cold and sticky, I think I almost would have rather had real pee, at least it would have been warm! :) oh let's add the fact that one of my backup drives on my server died last night, oh, forgot, along with it's backup mirrored raid. so what are the odds on that? I don't know, both drives in a mirror raid dying at once. I didn't loose the project, but I lost all my emails for the last year, system install backups, last 4 months of photos, all the photos of my dog (sniff sniff) receipts, bookmarks, scripts, some client work (web sites), and all that jazz. take it from me, I have batteries, fans, and mirrored raided everything with hardware raids to keep those harddrives happy, MAKE BACKUPS at all cost. 20 years of computer owning, 2nd time I've lost a drive, worst one yet.

May 16th, 2004, 09:15 PM	#27
Michael Brumback Jr. New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago Subs Posts: 19	oh I'm shooting in DVCAM for that extra little protection of running the tape back and fourth, not using Sony's new DVCAM tapes using the DVM-40Ns. Also shooting in 16x9. I have a few 500watt Smith Victors along with all my homemade stands and light I welded together. I use a big piece of poster board to do as much bouce lighting as I can when doing close ups. Helps fill in some shadows and smooth out the lights a bit. I tried my hand at colored lighting, but it didn't come out to well, I guess it was ok, but I think with some color timing tweeks it will be much better. Also recording audio straight to he camera using a AT shotgun mic on a stand set off camera. For voice over recording I use my AT studio mic and pop filter in a walk in closet. (closet thing I have to a sound proof room, really good) Everything is being edited on a custom AMD system with a MatroxRTx100 and Premiere Pro. It sucks, but right as I am finishing this PPro 1.5 will come out with all these new realtime things for the RTx100!!!! oh well. Compositing and effects are being done in Combustion 3 and 3dsMAX 6. I just hope I can do some good clean greenscreen mattes next week!!