New cameras or stick with PDX10? at DVinfo.net

Alex Vandenberg · February 11th, 2004, 07:08 AM

I've made up my mind a while back that I'd be using my tax return this year to buy a video camera finally. After all the research I've done I've been leaning towards the PDX10 for it's 16:9 ability and it's audio capabilities. I really like everything about the camera. My only hesitation is that NAB is coming up pretty soon and I of course would like to have a camera that wont be replaced in the next two months. Is it likely at all that Sony will release anything in the price level of the PDX10 at NAB? I have a feeling they're more likely to release something to compete with the DVX100a which would be a higher price than I want to go right now. I probably wont get my taxes filed for a week or so and then the return takes a while but I'm just trying to get a feel of what other people think could happen at NAB. Thanks.

Boyd Ostroff · February 11th, 2004, 08:51 AM

This is a classic question, and the truth is that nobody knows, or if they do they can't say anything. If you need a camera and the PDX-10 fits your needs then buy it. If you are unsure, or if you fear buyers remorse, then wait for NAB. But there is always one more hill off in the distance that might conceal a pot of gold...

Alex Vandenberg · February 11th, 2004, 09:56 AM

I'll probably just wait till the money from Mr. IRS comes over and then make a decision. I'll most likely get the pdx10 since it seems to do everything I want for the price I want.

Jim J. Donaldson · February 11th, 2004, 01:32 PM

I used my Tax Return to get my PDX10, money well spent. I have not been using my camera for as long as Boyd but I have been putting it through it's paces. If you are taking your time and setting up your shots (allowing for adjusting to the few short comings) this camera is great. If you want something to just whip out and start filming you may run into the light level and vertical smear issues; but I have to say they can be managed. Video Maker magazine tested it at +530 lines of Horz. resolution, one of the few cameras that have made it over 450 in the last two years of reviews I have read. I am doing all of my video in 16:9 format, I just really love the opportunities the wide framing gives you. Your video doesn’t seem so boxed in like in 4:3. I am looking for a good light kit to really make use of all this camera has to offer. One that is looking interesting is the Smith-Victor K77.

Good luck.

JimJohnD

Shawn Mielke · February 11th, 2004, 03:00 PM

I'll second everything they said: get the PDX10 if you want a camera now. I have two and they're lovely and functional instruments. And besides, a miraculous upgrade seems highly improbable to me, or at least premature.

Boyd Ostroff · February 11th, 2004, 05:12 PM

It's kinda funny how you guys call it "money from my tax return"... actually it's an interest-free loan that you never should have given to the government. But I understand the sentiment, it does seem like Christmas when you get something back. And of course that's just the mindset the IRS wants you to have ;-)

Shawn Mielke · February 11th, 2004, 11:06 PM

Or at least we should not be giving that money up without knowing where it goes and, more importantly, having a direct say in where it goes.

Shawn Mielke · February 11th, 2004, 11:13 PM

And at this point in the thread, Mike Rehmus would be telling us to scram ("Cameras, anyone?" :-] ) with our extremely off-topic politico-economic musings, and I respect that, so I'll swing us back by saying,

What do you guys shoot, Jim and Alex?

Alex Vandenberg · February 12th, 2004, 07:56 AM

Probably the main thing I will shoot will be basic life stuff. Trips hiking, friends goofing off, tennis shooting outdoors. I'm also wanting a high quality camera for capturing video to be used in a dvd producing project I've been starting.

Jim J. Donaldson · February 12th, 2004, 09:19 AM

Hi there,
Well, at this point I have just been getting used to the camera. I have been doing some training type videos at work using a Hi8 and capturing to computer for editing. I have the same camera so we have had the ability to do matched two camera shots. For me, I wanted to upgrade to digital for the ease of use. I like to shoots lots of video so I have material to work with when editing. But with the Hi8 I would capture large chunks of video. I then would have to take these (well I guess I wouldn't HAVE too but I like working with trimmed shots when editing) and trim them down to individual shots. Now with the digital I use WinDV and have it split the shots off the timecode all right at capture. Now I can go right to the fun stuff in editing. I'll have to convince them at work that this is really the way to go. The time savings alone are worth going digital. As far as what I have been shooting with the camera I'd have to say a bit of everything.

I have done some shots of/from a river crosswalk that were simply vivid. I took some facing away from the sun, looking down river just before dusk/sunset. You can see the detail of the frozen water and tiny branches on trees along the bank. I then turned around and got the sun dropping in the sky. The yellow into the reds into the blues of they sky are a perfect background to the silhouetted trees with all of the detail of the branches. These are the shots where the width of the 16:9 frame really make it worth while.

I have the opportunity later this month to shoot some music/concert type video of a friends group at a local club, "just for fun and maybe see what we can get out of it". They are looking for something they can hawk around with that doesn’t look like home movies. I've told them I won't guarantee anything but it will be fun, and educational. We'll do some video before the crowds show up so I can get some close-ups and such of the songs they want covered, but the main video will be shot from front of house.

I am working on my web site so I can put up some screen shots of what I have been working on. If you really want to see some great shots (where you can tell they actually took the time to compose their shots) check out Boyd's site at http://greenmist.com/

Tavis Shaver · February 12th, 2004, 02:56 PM

Canada didn't have any income tax until WWI, even then it was supposed to have been abolished after the war...guess it turns out that NO taxes are temporary, once the govt gets a taste it doesn't like to give it up.

Julian Luttrell · February 13th, 2004, 12:06 PM

Tavis,

I'm always sceptical about claims that the "government" doesn't want to give up taxes because it's "used to them".

IMHO new taxes are introduced at a time that the country/state/society needs them to fund some expense or another - this particular expense is seen to be temporary. During the time of the expense, the structure of the country's economy and society adapts to there presence, with the result that the society and economy would break if the taxes were then removed - it's not the government, but the society (= the people) who need them.

Just my opinion.

Julian

Tavis Shaver · February 13th, 2004, 06:02 PM

While i agree with what you are saying, there is a flip side to it, for example our ruling party here is, as we speak, going through a scandal that alleges the misappropriation of anywhere from 100 to 250 MILLION dollars through a federal "sponsorship" program. That's just part of it, the Canadian govt is full of money wasters (is that even a word?). Our Governor Genreral being a prime offender.

Anyway, income tax was supposed to be temporary here.

(i now return this thread to it's rightful owners)

Jim J. Donaldson · February 13th, 2004, 10:41 PM

Hi All,
Just to follow up I put together a few shots I took off of some DVD material I have done.

http://www.bright.net/~jimjohnd/photo.htm

I used PowerDVD to capture the screen and Paint Shop to do a bi-cubic resize. I used an 8meg VBR video data rate for this DVD source material editing with Ulead Media Studio Pro. The camera was set for default and full auto for all controls. I'm sure the images could be tweeked some but I figured I'd see what the camera could do 'out of the box'.

The shot of the cars was taken from about 4 stories up and two blocks away. All shots are using available lighting. Once things start to warm up (soon I hope) I'll have some more shots to share.

Marco Leavitt · February 14th, 2004, 08:58 AM

"Video Maker magazine tested it at +530 lines of Horz. resolution, one of the few cameras that have made it over 450 in the last two years of reviews I have read."

I find this confusing. Don't all NTSC camcorders have a horizontal resolution of 720?

February 11th, 2004, 07:08 AM	#1
Alex Vandenberg Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 3	New cameras or stick with PDX10? I've made up my mind a while back that I'd be using my tax return this year to buy a video camera finally. After all the research I've done I've been leaning towards the PDX10 for it's 16:9 ability and it's audio capabilities. I really like everything about the camera. My only hesitation is that NAB is coming up pretty soon and I of course would like to have a camera that wont be replaced in the next two months. Is it likely at all that Sony will release anything in the price level of the PDX10 at NAB? I have a feeling they're more likely to release something to compete with the DVX100a which would be a higher price than I want to go right now. I probably wont get my taxes filed for a week or so and then the return takes a while but I'm just trying to get a feel of what other people think could happen at NAB. Thanks.

February 11th, 2004, 03:00 PM	#5
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	I'll second everything they said: get the PDX10 if you want a camera now. I have two and they're lovely and functional instruments. And besides, a miraculous upgrade seems highly improbable to me, or at least premature. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

February 11th, 2004, 11:06 PM	#7
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Or at least we should not be giving that money up without knowing where it goes and, more importantly, having a direct say in where it goes. __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

February 11th, 2004, 11:13 PM	#8
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	And at this point in the thread, Mike Rehmus would be telling us to scram ("Cameras, anyone?" :-] ) with our extremely off-topic politico-economic musings, and I respect that, so I'll swing us back by saying, What do you guys shoot, Jim and Alex? __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

February 13th, 2004, 12:06 PM	#12
Julian Luttrell Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 164	Taxes Tavis, I'm always sceptical about claims that the "government" doesn't want to give up taxes because it's "used to them". IMHO new taxes are introduced at a time that the country/state/society needs them to fund some expense or another - this particular expense is seen to be temporary. During the time of the expense, the structure of the country's economy and society adapts to there presence, with the result that the society and economy would break if the taxes were then removed - it's not the government, but the society (= the people) who need them. Just my opinion. Julian

February 11th, 2004, 08:51 AM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	This is a classic question, and the truth is that nobody knows, or if they do they can't say anything. If you need a camera and the PDX-10 fits your needs then buy it. If you are unsure, or if you fear buyers remorse, then wait for NAB. But there is always one more hill off in the distance that might conceal a pot of gold...

February 11th, 2004, 09:56 AM	#3
Alex Vandenberg Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 3	I'll probably just wait till the money from Mr. IRS comes over and then make a decision. I'll most likely get the pdx10 since it seems to do everything I want for the price I want.

February 11th, 2004, 01:32 PM	#4
Jim J. Donaldson New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Findlay, Ohio Posts: 21	I used my Tax Return to get my PDX10, money well spent. I have not been using my camera for as long as Boyd but I have been putting it through it's paces. If you are taking your time and setting up your shots (allowing for adjusting to the few short comings) this camera is great. If you want something to just whip out and start filming you may run into the light level and vertical smear issues; but I have to say they can be managed. Video Maker magazine tested it at +530 lines of Horz. resolution, one of the few cameras that have made it over 450 in the last two years of reviews I have read. I am doing all of my video in 16:9 format, I just really love the opportunities the wide framing gives you. Your video doesn’t seem so boxed in like in 4:3. I am looking for a good light kit to really make use of all this camera has to offer. One that is looking interesting is the Smith-Victor K77. Good luck. JimJohnD

February 11th, 2004, 05:12 PM	#6
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	It's kinda funny how you guys call it "money from my tax return"... actually it's an interest-free loan that you never should have given to the government. But I understand the sentiment, it does seem like Christmas when you get something back. And of course that's just the mindset the IRS wants you to have ;-)

February 12th, 2004, 07:56 AM	#9
Alex Vandenberg Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 3	Probably the main thing I will shoot will be basic life stuff. Trips hiking, friends goofing off, tennis shooting outdoors. I'm also wanting a high quality camera for capturing video to be used in a dvd producing project I've been starting.

February 12th, 2004, 09:19 AM	#10
Jim J. Donaldson New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Findlay, Ohio Posts: 21	Hi there, Well, at this point I have just been getting used to the camera. I have been doing some training type videos at work using a Hi8 and capturing to computer for editing. I have the same camera so we have had the ability to do matched two camera shots. For me, I wanted to upgrade to digital for the ease of use. I like to shoots lots of video so I have material to work with when editing. But with the Hi8 I would capture large chunks of video. I then would have to take these (well I guess I wouldn't HAVE too but I like working with trimmed shots when editing) and trim them down to individual shots. Now with the digital I use WinDV and have it split the shots off the timecode all right at capture. Now I can go right to the fun stuff in editing. I'll have to convince them at work that this is really the way to go. The time savings alone are worth going digital. As far as what I have been shooting with the camera I'd have to say a bit of everything. I have done some shots of/from a river crosswalk that were simply vivid. I took some facing away from the sun, looking down river just before dusk/sunset. You can see the detail of the frozen water and tiny branches on trees along the bank. I then turned around and got the sun dropping in the sky. The yellow into the reds into the blues of they sky are a perfect background to the silhouetted trees with all of the detail of the branches. These are the shots where the width of the 16:9 frame really make it worth while. I have the opportunity later this month to shoot some music/concert type video of a friends group at a local club, "just for fun and maybe see what we can get out of it". They are looking for something they can hawk around with that doesn’t look like home movies. I've told them I won't guarantee anything but it will be fun, and educational. We'll do some video before the crowds show up so I can get some close-ups and such of the songs they want covered, but the main video will be shot from front of house. I am working on my web site so I can put up some screen shots of what I have been working on. If you really want to see some great shots (where you can tell they actually took the time to compose their shots) check out Boyd's site at http://greenmist.com/

February 12th, 2004, 02:56 PM	#11
Tavis Shaver Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada Posts: 209	Canada didn't have any income tax until WWI, even then it was supposed to have been abolished after the war...guess it turns out that NO taxes are temporary, once the govt gets a taste it doesn't like to give it up.

February 13th, 2004, 06:02 PM	#13
Tavis Shaver Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada Posts: 209	While i agree with what you are saying, there is a flip side to it, for example our ruling party here is, as we speak, going through a scandal that alleges the misappropriation of anywhere from 100 to 250 MILLION dollars through a federal "sponsorship" program. That's just part of it, the Canadian govt is full of money wasters (is that even a word?). Our Governor Genreral being a prime offender. Anyway, income tax was supposed to be temporary here. (i now return this thread to it's rightful owners)

February 13th, 2004, 10:41 PM	#14
Jim J. Donaldson New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Findlay, Ohio Posts: 21	Hi All, Just to follow up I put together a few shots I took off of some DVD material I have done. http://www.bright.net/~jimjohnd/photo.htm I used PowerDVD to capture the screen and Paint Shop to do a bi-cubic resize. I used an 8meg VBR video data rate for this DVD source material editing with Ulead Media Studio Pro. The camera was set for default and full auto for all controls. I'm sure the images could be tweeked some but I figured I'd see what the camera could do 'out of the box'. The shot of the cars was taken from about 4 stories up and two blocks away. All shots are using available lighting. Once things start to warm up (soon I hope) I'll have some more shots to share.

February 14th, 2004, 08:58 AM	#15
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	"Video Maker magazine tested it at +530 lines of Horz. resolution, one of the few cameras that have made it over 450 in the last two years of reviews I have read." I find this confusing. Don't all NTSC camcorders have a horizontal resolution of 720?