Sony DCR-PC-330 How good is it?

Ignacio Rodriguez · June 29th, 2004, 01:54 PM

Does it not have Firewire on the cradle? Oh my... so they had to mess up somehow, didn't they? ;-)

Seriously though, we did you get that info from, about it not having Firewire? The PAL PC107E and 109E, which have similar cradles, have Firewire, although Sony likes to call it iLink.

Norm Couture · June 29th, 2004, 02:01 PM

The same announcement made by Sony was echoed in all the industry websites with different rings...

http://www.dvspot.com/
says there's no FireWire nor USB connector on the newly announced DCR-PC350...
but I should have read correctly:

"Includes Handycam Station (cradle), used for charging the battery or connection to a television or your PC; the camcorder only has power and A/V ports on it -- no Firewire or USB!"

Ignacio Rodriguez · June 29th, 2004, 02:07 PM

Actually it does, on the cradle. Here is the info from Sony:

"Like a cell phone or PDA cradle, the accompanying Handycam Station charges the DCR-PC350 camcorder and connects it to a TV or PC, while keeping the camcorder easily accessible. The Handycam Station comes fully loaded with all the necessary inputs, including S-video and an audio/video terminal for connecting the unit to a TV, as well as a USB 1.1 port and an i.LINK® (IEEE-1394) digital interface for connection to compatible PCs."

The press release also mentions "30 fps" as the cinematic effect mode. So no 24p, sorry. Still 30p, if it really is progressive, would be awesome!

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/4994

Norm Couture · June 29th, 2004, 02:13 PM

You're right, Ignacio, they are on the cradle.
Sorry, false alarm.
But I wouldn't have been surprised if Sony, once again, had tried to inforce a newly patented transfer standard to replace iLink or BlueTooth...

Ignacio Rodriguez · June 29th, 2004, 04:36 PM

Most unfortunately, it seems the 24p rumor was a false alarm too. Oh well, back to DVFilm Maker... ;-)

Boyd Ostroff · June 29th, 2004, 05:01 PM

The camcorderinfo article cites an interview with Adam Wilt as the source of the 24p info. One wouldn't expect him to distort the facts, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see how this plays out. But anyway, it looks awfully "consumery" to me. Don't sell your PDX-10 quite yet ;-)

Ignacio Rodriguez · June 29th, 2004, 07:56 PM

> The camcorderinfo article cites an interview with Adam Wilt
> as the source of the 24p info.

Well not exactly... it seems to me that they ask him about the camera and he speculates about how good it would for it to have 24p especially if it was done a-la-DVX100, but he also says that without diagrams and specs there is not much to say... he seems to be commenting on the rumor.

Anyway, for it to have 30p, with the "p" standing for real proscan, is almost enough for me to want to sell my PDX10 :S

Michael Struthers · June 30th, 2004, 10:30 AM

I suspect there will be lots of pdx10's and xl1's on sale very soon.

Kevin A. Sturges · June 30th, 2004, 10:43 AM

The first poster here was asking about the Canon Xi. Well, I can’t compare it to the new Sony, but I bought the Xi about three weeks ago, upgrading from my 3 year old TRV820 D8 model.

I am REALLY picky about choosing a camcorder (even with my small budget) and spent months researching everything available before I made my move. On my CRT HDTV, the Xi’s video looks fantastic. It is several times better than what I was getting from the old Sony D8. I did prefer the color of the Sony, but now I’m getting used to, and really like the “warm” palette of the Xi. Besides, it’s so easy to shift the color curves to your own preference in an editor like Vegas Video.

Bottom line, despite a few things that I would change, I love this little camera. It has it’s own look, which is almost more like film than video. It does not blow out the edges of things the way I’ve seen every other camcorder do. Contrasting edges in bright light retain a soft “filmlike” effect, which is what made me buy it. It has manual control over everything including the audio, and is just the right solid weight and size. It’s a little smaller than you would expect in person, but still has that pro look to it, compared to many of the new dinky cams. Also, the price was half to a third lower than anything else I was considering.

Has a huge lens. The optical stabilizer works almost like a glide cam. Better than anything else I’ve ever tried. Sound quality is very clean.

OK – here’s the kicker: I’ve posted about this on several other forums, but nobody seems to have an answer. I have discovered that in the shutter speed mode if you set it to 1/30, when viewing it’s output on a computer monitor SUDDENLY ALL THE INTERLACING DISSAPEARS. I can’t figure out what’s going on in there, bit it looks almost exactly like the 30P motion from the JVC HD10U. It does not appear to be doing this by cutting the vertical resolution in half and just using every other line. The resolution remains very sharp. Motion takes on that slightly liquidy quality, more like film, and is not jerky as in the Frame mode I’ve seen on other camcorders. It seems I made a really lucky choice with this camera. When viewing single frames in any other mode, the interlacing is very distracting and apparent do to the cameras high resolution. In 1/30 TV Mode, any trace of interlacing is GONE and instead you get beautiful whole frames at a time, where fast horizontal motion just slightly blurs softly like a frame of film. People who see my video (who aren’t techno camera types) just say, “Wow, it doesn’t look like any video I’ve ever seen before. This is sharper than broadcast TV. It looks like a movie on a DVD”.

That’s my experience I have to share. I hope someone else can try this out, and post what they think. I don’t believe for the price, you can go wrong with the Optura Xi.

Bill Lapson · June 30th, 2004, 11:19 AM

Kevin, thanks for your comments on the Optura Xi. I was attracted to this camcorder by its superior ergonimics, i.e. lots of manual controls, no need to open the LCD for altering settings. My concern was low level light performance and I haven't seen what stills look like. Is there reason to be concerned?

How is the autofocus? I tried out an Optura 10 and it seemed to be very slow in focussing and occasionally imprecise.

Bill Lapson · June 30th, 2004, 11:49 AM

I just called B&H regarding the Optura Xi. It has been discontinued. No replacement at this moment.

Kevin A. Sturges · June 30th, 2004, 01:02 PM

Wow, that's too bad this little gem has been discontinued. Yes, the auto focus is slow. Much slower than my old Sony, and it hunts around a bit when you move the camera around or zoom. That is the main thing I don't like about it.

I've gotten used to it now, and have learned to give it a full second before pushing the button. Most broadcast footage doesn't pan around alot, they frame first then shoot. If you use it like that it's fine.

I am happy with the low light ability of this camera. I don't think I had unrealistic expectations going in (even with it's big 1/3" chip size). It's more senstive than what I had, there is very little noise present, and the color stays OK down to a decent level. Things improve a lot if you white balance on a sheet of paper, even in low light. No orange cast then.

Here's a web page I made of VIDEO frame grabs, from the first couple days of using it. Most of the shots from halfway down were done with very low lighting at night. I used the night shot on the closeups of my cats, and the Spotlight mode works fantastic of city shots at night with streetlights. Very sharp detail and color, with NO noise in the blacks.

http://home.wi.rr.com/kevinsturges/opturaxiframegrabs.html

Bill Lapson · June 30th, 2004, 01:27 PM

Thanks for posting the stills. Nice pictures!

Boyd Ostroff · June 30th, 2004, 01:43 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : I suspect there will be lots of pdx10's and xl1's on sale very soon. -->>>

You are joking, right? This Sony is a tiny consumer level camera that doesn't even allow you to control shutter speed. Now I'm sure other cool stuff is on the way (who knows when), but it an't this one...

Bill Lapson · June 30th, 2004, 06:19 PM

I just went to look at a Sony 330. Watched the nth salesperson fumble with the LCD touch screen.

Does anyone have good words for the touchscreen? I like to think of myself as open-minded and very adept with most gadgets but this seems like a pretty poor human interface. How about you Apple users? Do you accept this interface?

By comparison, the Canon cameras have an inelegant but simple interface. You fumble with it a few times and then you have it. All items on the menus are quickly accessible via a button and scroll wheel. All adjustments can be made either in the viewfinder or on the LCD. The Optura Xi (now discontinued) was especially simple.

After several weeks of shopping for a camcorder, I am a bit appalled at their poor user interfaces. Also, I'm surprised to see that from cheapest to most expensive, all the camcorders have blurred video images during panning.

June 29th, 2004, 01:54 PM	#16
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Does it not have Firewire on the cradle? Oh my... so they had to mess up somehow, didn't they? ;-) Seriously though, we did you get that info from, about it not having Firewire? The PAL PC107E and 109E, which have similar cradles, have Firewire, although Sony likes to call it iLink. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

June 29th, 2004, 02:01 PM	#17
Norm Couture Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Quebec, QC, Canada Posts: 123	The same announcement made by Sony was echoed in all the industry websites with different rings... http://www.dvspot.com/ says there's no FireWire nor USB connector on the newly announced DCR-PC350... but I should have read correctly: "Includes Handycam Station (cradle), used for charging the battery or connection to a television or your PC; the camcorder only has power and A/V ports on it -- no Firewire or USB!" __________________ Norm :)

June 29th, 2004, 02:07 PM	#18
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Actually it does, on the cradle. Here is the info from Sony: "Like a cell phone or PDA cradle, the accompanying Handycam Station charges the DCR-PC350 camcorder and connects it to a TV or PC, while keeping the camcorder easily accessible. The Handycam Station comes fully loaded with all the necessary inputs, including S-video and an audio/video terminal for connecting the unit to a TV, as well as a USB 1.1 port and an i.LINK® (IEEE-1394) digital interface for connection to compatible PCs." The press release also mentions "30 fps" as the cinematic effect mode. So no 24p, sorry. Still 30p, if it really is progressive, would be awesome! http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/4994 __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

June 29th, 2004, 02:13 PM	#19
Norm Couture Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Quebec, QC, Canada Posts: 123	You're right, Ignacio, they are on the cradle. Sorry, false alarm. But I wouldn't have been surprised if Sony, once again, had tried to inforce a newly patented transfer standard to replace iLink or BlueTooth... __________________ Norm :)

June 29th, 2004, 04:36 PM	#20
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Most unfortunately, it seems the 24p rumor was a false alarm too. Oh well, back to DVFilm Maker... ;-) __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

June 29th, 2004, 05:01 PM	#21
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	The camcorderinfo article cites an interview with Adam Wilt as the source of the 24p info. One wouldn't expect him to distort the facts, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see how this plays out. But anyway, it looks awfully "consumery" to me. Don't sell your PDX-10 quite yet ;-)

June 29th, 2004, 07:56 PM	#22
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	> The camcorderinfo article cites an interview with Adam Wilt > as the source of the 24p info. Well not exactly... it seems to me that they ask him about the camera and he speculates about how good it would for it to have 24p especially if it was done a-la-DVX100, but he also says that without diagrams and specs there is not much to say... he seems to be commenting on the rumor. Anyway, for it to have 30p, with the "p" standing for real proscan, is almost enough for me to want to sell my PDX10 :S __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

June 30th, 2004, 10:30 AM	#23
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	I suspect there will be lots of pdx10's and xl1's on sale very soon. __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com

June 30th, 2004, 10:43 AM	#24
Kevin A. Sturges Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	The first poster here was asking about the Canon Xi. Well, I can’t compare it to the new Sony, but I bought the Xi about three weeks ago, upgrading from my 3 year old TRV820 D8 model. I am REALLY picky about choosing a camcorder (even with my small budget) and spent months researching everything available before I made my move. On my CRT HDTV, the Xi’s video looks fantastic. It is several times better than what I was getting from the old Sony D8. I did prefer the color of the Sony, but now I’m getting used to, and really like the “warm” palette of the Xi. Besides, it’s so easy to shift the color curves to your own preference in an editor like Vegas Video. Bottom line, despite a few things that I would change, I love this little camera. It has it’s own look, which is almost more like film than video. It does not blow out the edges of things the way I’ve seen every other camcorder do. Contrasting edges in bright light retain a soft “filmlike” effect, which is what made me buy it. It has manual control over everything including the audio, and is just the right solid weight and size. It’s a little smaller than you would expect in person, but still has that pro look to it, compared to many of the new dinky cams. Also, the price was half to a third lower than anything else I was considering. Has a huge lens. The optical stabilizer works almost like a glide cam. Better than anything else I’ve ever tried. Sound quality is very clean. OK – here’s the kicker: I’ve posted about this on several other forums, but nobody seems to have an answer. I have discovered that in the shutter speed mode if you set it to 1/30, when viewing it’s output on a computer monitor SUDDENLY ALL THE INTERLACING DISSAPEARS. I can’t figure out what’s going on in there, bit it looks almost exactly like the 30P motion from the JVC HD10U. It does not appear to be doing this by cutting the vertical resolution in half and just using every other line. The resolution remains very sharp. Motion takes on that slightly liquidy quality, more like film, and is not jerky as in the Frame mode I’ve seen on other camcorders. It seems I made a really lucky choice with this camera. When viewing single frames in any other mode, the interlacing is very distracting and apparent do to the cameras high resolution. In 1/30 TV Mode, any trace of interlacing is GONE and instead you get beautiful whole frames at a time, where fast horizontal motion just slightly blurs softly like a frame of film. People who see my video (who aren’t techno camera types) just say, “Wow, it doesn’t look like any video I’ve ever seen before. This is sharper than broadcast TV. It looks like a movie on a DVD”. That’s my experience I have to share. I hope someone else can try this out, and post what they think. I don’t believe for the price, you can go wrong with the Optura Xi.

June 30th, 2004, 11:19 AM	#25
Bill Lapson New Boot Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Danville CA Posts: 15	Kevin, thanks for your comments on the Optura Xi. I was attracted to this camcorder by its superior ergonimics, i.e. lots of manual controls, no need to open the LCD for altering settings. My concern was low level light performance and I haven't seen what stills look like. Is there reason to be concerned? How is the autofocus? I tried out an Optura 10 and it seemed to be very slow in focussing and occasionally imprecise.

June 30th, 2004, 11:49 AM	#26
Bill Lapson New Boot Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Danville CA Posts: 15	I just called B&H regarding the Optura Xi. It has been discontinued. No replacement at this moment.

June 30th, 2004, 01:02 PM	#27
Kevin A. Sturges Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	Wow, that's too bad this little gem has been discontinued. Yes, the auto focus is slow. Much slower than my old Sony, and it hunts around a bit when you move the camera around or zoom. That is the main thing I don't like about it. I've gotten used to it now, and have learned to give it a full second before pushing the button. Most broadcast footage doesn't pan around alot, they frame first then shoot. If you use it like that it's fine. I am happy with the low light ability of this camera. I don't think I had unrealistic expectations going in (even with it's big 1/3" chip size). It's more senstive than what I had, there is very little noise present, and the color stays OK down to a decent level. Things improve a lot if you white balance on a sheet of paper, even in low light. No orange cast then. Here's a web page I made of VIDEO frame grabs, from the first couple days of using it. Most of the shots from halfway down were done with very low lighting at night. I used the night shot on the closeups of my cats, and the Spotlight mode works fantastic of city shots at night with streetlights. Very sharp detail and color, with NO noise in the blacks. http://home.wi.rr.com/kevinsturges/opturaxiframegrabs.html

June 30th, 2004, 01:27 PM	#28
Bill Lapson New Boot Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Danville CA Posts: 15	Thanks for posting the stills. Nice pictures!

June 30th, 2004, 01:43 PM	#29
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : I suspect there will be lots of pdx10's and xl1's on sale very soon. -->>> You are joking, right? This Sony is a tiny consumer level camera that doesn't even allow you to control shutter speed. Now I'm sure other cool stuff is on the way (who knows when), but it an't this one...

June 30th, 2004, 06:19 PM	#30
Bill Lapson New Boot Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Danville CA Posts: 15	I just went to look at a Sony 330. Watched the nth salesperson fumble with the LCD touch screen. Does anyone have good words for the touchscreen? I like to think of myself as open-minded and very adept with most gadgets but this seems like a pretty poor human interface. How about you Apple users? Do you accept this interface? By comparison, the Canon cameras have an inelegant but simple interface. You fumble with it a few times and then you have it. All items on the menus are quickly accessible via a button and scroll wheel. All adjustments can be made either in the viewfinder or on the LCD. The Optura Xi (now discontinued) was especially simple. After several weeks of shopping for a camcorder, I am a bit appalled at their poor user interfaces. Also, I'm surprised to see that from cheapest to most expensive, all the camcorders have blurred video images during panning.