What would you do??

Tim Kindler · November 2nd, 2003, 08:08 AM

It depends on the applications you're using the camera for aswell. How professional are the productions you're doing etc... and do you need a compact camera. I own a vx2000 so im probably biased towards it, however for the kind of work i do, i'll be looking at a pd soon aswell (for a water housing).

Basically, the vx2000 produces some amazing images. When i bought it i expected a lot from the reviews i had heard/ read. I dont think i can remember a time when it hasnt lived up to those expectations. Sure, it'd be really nice to have XLR imputs and DVCAM option but thats really they're the only downsides to the VX. If image quality is the main deciding factor then definately go for the VX. The PD is a nice camera, especially because of the XLR imputs, DVCAM and true 16:9 but fact is the VX has the bigger chips and im sure you know what that means. However if a compact camera is what you need then go the PD.

Im in Sydney too so if you really need convincing I can try orgainse a way to show you some footage ive shot, night, low light and bright daylight comparisons. I knew exactly what u meant when you said you couldnt help but like the VX when you picked it up for the first time. Really, if you can get the VX for the same price as the PD, i would go the VX for sure. Thats just me anyways.....

Can anyone answer me why Sony didnt combine the PDX10 with the VX2000 for the camera upgrade??? That would be one sweet setup....

Anthony Milic · November 2nd, 2003, 11:09 PM

Tim, Tom, Mark & Chris. - thank you. It's comments like these that help inexperienced users like myself, cement decisions and confidently commit and invest...err.. nice words make Anthony buy cam-cam.
Yes Mark, I'm definitely going to wait for the vx2100. The only concern is that the opportunity to buy a VX for the same price as the PDX10 (which Tim can appreciate, is a good thing here in Oz) through a Sony contact may be gone by the time the vx2100 is available (he's resigning). I'll just have to cross my fingers and hope that in approx 4 weeks, he'll still have contacts who can help out - which he claims is a possibility..

I'm Glad to hear that Chris, it's good to know that there are professionals out there, in a sense, 'backing-up' procedures that I know I'll have to utilise. I always had the impression that anything but native 16:9 was bad juju.
Tom: Golden advice as advise as always. addresstome@hotmail.com - appreciate it.
Tim, I'm awaiting that magical camera as well.. you never know.. maybe if we click our heels three times..

Again, thanks a lot guys. I've finally decided that I'm going with the vx2100 - With the decision making out of the way(and weight of my poor shoulders), I just have to worry about getting it for the same 'sony insider' price.
I suppose I'll know in a month or so.

cheers.

Anthony Milic · November 3rd, 2003, 01:32 AM

p.s. Tim (or anyone else), have you heard anything about release dates for the 2100 in Aust.? I can't find anything official. Retailers seem to jump from mid November to December, depending on whether or not they think they've got a sale out of you.
Also, a q from out of nowhere - I was sitting and staring at the moon on a particularly clear night over the weekend. The thought came to me; '..could I film this?..'
Is that possible? Just out of interest, what would happen if you tried to film a bright moon in the middle of the night sky? (with 2000)

Gints Klimanis · November 3rd, 2003, 01:53 AM

Regarding VX2100 low light rating, there is another thread in which one of the dvinfo.net people spoke to a Sony rep. at a trade show and learned the the vx2100 1 lux rating was achieved through digital signal processing, not an improved CCD.

Tom Hardwick · November 3rd, 2003, 04:22 AM

Could you film the moon? Sure thing. The moon and our earth are illuminated by the same light source. It's 93 million miles away and as the light reflected by the moon and the earth is very similar, the bright side of the moon should be given exactly the same exposure as you'd give on a sunny day out in your garden. But I'd bracket downwards if anything because the lack of atmosphere means more light reaches the moon's surface (and is reflected from it) than our earth.

tom.

Frank Granovski · November 3rd, 2003, 04:35 AM

Tom, you do have a sense of humour. :)

Tom Hardwick · November 3rd, 2003, 05:04 AM

How do you know Frank? Or do you find my posts amusing? :-)
anthonymilic@hotmail.... is it? Bounces, so can't send you the PDX frames.

Frank Granovski · November 3rd, 2003, 05:49 AM

Well, I found that post humorous, Tom---with those facts and observations. It's also way past my bed time. :)

Tim Kindler · November 3rd, 2003, 06:08 AM

Anthony, were you talking about the moon two nights ago? It was pretty large. I was thinking the exact same thing on my drive home from work along the Gore Hill freeway. The shot would have been: The road curving away from the bottom left of screen underneath an overpass, foliage and shrubs just illuminated on either side of the road by the moon and my headlights and the half moon sitting there just above the traffic lights on the overpass. A car driving past in the opposite direction with its headlights shining through the light fog.... ahhhhh. I havent had enough sleep obviously but yes, in theory, with the moon I think you are talking about, it would be possible to get it decently exposed. post me ur email and i'll send you some grabs i got from my cam of the moon when it was gold. Otherwise if anyone else knows how i could post them for you all to see??

Good choice with the VX2100... if you can get it for the same price.... But im sure if you cant, the VX2000 will drop in price significantly after a few months.

Anthony, I heard the release date for the VX2100 and PD170 is sometime in December (maybe just before Chrissy????) but that may not be correct of course....

Gints: Thats a shame if that is true about the 1 lux rating being achieved through digital signal processing... especially considering that the upgrade was a tiny bit of a let down as i expected quite a bit more... oh well, i guess we'll see when it comes out!

Mike Rehmus · November 3rd, 2003, 09:46 AM

Why do you care about how Sony achieved the 1 lux rating? No matter where in the chain they were able to reduce noise, the system works.

The rating means we can shoot in less light with the same amount of noise or in the same light with less noise (assuming they are 'telling the truth').

Anthony Milic · November 3rd, 2003, 05:42 PM

no Tom literally.. : 'addresstome@hotmail.com'

hey'all. get some sleep!
or stay off the 'moon'shine.
'ar 'ar... *sigh

Tim Kindler · November 3rd, 2003, 07:00 PM

nah its just generally an assumption that there are more noise problems when electronic systems are introduced to camera imaging. ie- why optical image stabilisers are better than electronic image stabilisers and 3 chips are better than one etc....

just an assumption though, if the system works then it works, no arguments from me

Mark Goodsell · November 3rd, 2003, 07:00 PM

Anthony, if your buddy will work you up a really good deal on the VX2000, you won't be dissappointed. It's a great cam and the VX2100's improvments are noteworthy, but not earthshattering. Still, I would rather have the 2100 ... it would have to be a really good deal.

I was also going to say that the Vx2000 works very well in Auto mode. That lets you get good shots starting out, and let's you progress to more manual modes as you learn.

Anthony Milic · November 3rd, 2003, 08:57 PM

Thanks Mark, it seems the more I hear, the more I like!

these are the evil Oz prices I've come across:

US$4880 - RRP through Sony
US$3840 - best retail I could find.
US$3280 - sony insider.
eeek

Boyd Ostroff · November 4th, 2003, 08:19 AM

That's fascinating... are all 3 chip DV cameras priced in that range, or is Sony especially expensive? How about accessories like lenses, filters, batteries, etc... are they also priced higher than in the US? Well at least Miller tripods are made in Australia... right? Maybe you get a break on these? I paid about $800 for a DS-5 with aluminum legs at B&H.

November 2nd, 2003, 08:08 AM	#16
Tim Kindler New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 17	VX2000 It depends on the applications you're using the camera for aswell. How professional are the productions you're doing etc... and do you need a compact camera. I own a vx2000 so im probably biased towards it, however for the kind of work i do, i'll be looking at a pd soon aswell (for a water housing). Basically, the vx2000 produces some amazing images. When i bought it i expected a lot from the reviews i had heard/ read. I dont think i can remember a time when it hasnt lived up to those expectations. Sure, it'd be really nice to have XLR imputs and DVCAM option but thats really they're the only downsides to the VX. If image quality is the main deciding factor then definately go for the VX. The PD is a nice camera, especially because of the XLR imputs, DVCAM and true 16:9 but fact is the VX has the bigger chips and im sure you know what that means. However if a compact camera is what you need then go the PD. Im in Sydney too so if you really need convincing I can try orgainse a way to show you some footage ive shot, night, low light and bright daylight comparisons. I knew exactly what u meant when you said you couldnt help but like the VX when you picked it up for the first time. Really, if you can get the VX for the same price as the PD, i would go the VX for sure. Thats just me anyways..... Can anyone answer me why Sony didnt combine the PDX10 with the VX2000 for the camera upgrade??? That would be one sweet setup.... __________________ "Forever Ends"

November 3rd, 2003, 06:08 AM	#24
Tim Kindler New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 17	the moon Anthony, were you talking about the moon two nights ago? It was pretty large. I was thinking the exact same thing on my drive home from work along the Gore Hill freeway. The shot would have been: The road curving away from the bottom left of screen underneath an overpass, foliage and shrubs just illuminated on either side of the road by the moon and my headlights and the half moon sitting there just above the traffic lights on the overpass. A car driving past in the opposite direction with its headlights shining through the light fog.... ahhhhh. I havent had enough sleep obviously but yes, in theory, with the moon I think you are talking about, it would be possible to get it decently exposed. post me ur email and i'll send you some grabs i got from my cam of the moon when it was gold. Otherwise if anyone else knows how i could post them for you all to see?? Good choice with the VX2100... if you can get it for the same price.... But im sure if you cant, the VX2000 will drop in price significantly after a few months. Anthony, I heard the release date for the VX2100 and PD170 is sometime in December (maybe just before Chrissy????) but that may not be correct of course.... Gints: Thats a shame if that is true about the 1 lux rating being achieved through digital signal processing... especially considering that the upgrade was a tiny bit of a let down as i expected quite a bit more... oh well, i guess we'll see when it comes out! __________________ "Forever Ends"

November 3rd, 2003, 09:46 AM	#25
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Why do you care about how Sony achieved the 1 lux rating? No matter where in the chain they were able to reduce noise, the system works. The rating means we can shoot in less light with the same amount of noise or in the same light with less noise (assuming they are 'telling the truth'). __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

November 3rd, 2003, 07:00 PM	#27
Tim Kindler New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 17	electronic low lux nah its just generally an assumption that there are more noise problems when electronic systems are introduced to camera imaging. ie- why optical image stabilisers are better than electronic image stabilisers and 3 chips are better than one etc.... just an assumption though, if the system works then it works, no arguments from me __________________ "Forever Ends"

November 3rd, 2003, 07:00 PM	#28
Mark Goodsell Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: WI Posts: 367	Anthony, if your buddy will work you up a really good deal on the VX2000, you won't be dissappointed. It's a great cam and the VX2100's improvments are noteworthy, but not earthshattering. Still, I would rather have the 2100 ... it would have to be a really good deal. I was also going to say that the Vx2000 works very well in Auto mode. That lets you get good shots starting out, and let's you progress to more manual modes as you learn. __________________ Mark Goodsell

November 2nd, 2003, 11:09 PM	#17
Anthony Milic Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 103	Tim, Tom, Mark & Chris. - thank you. It's comments like these that help inexperienced users like myself, cement decisions and confidently commit and invest...err.. nice words make Anthony buy cam-cam. Yes Mark, I'm definitely going to wait for the vx2100. The only concern is that the opportunity to buy a VX for the same price as the PDX10 (which Tim can appreciate, is a good thing here in Oz) through a Sony contact may be gone by the time the vx2100 is available (he's resigning). I'll just have to cross my fingers and hope that in approx 4 weeks, he'll still have contacts who can help out - which he claims is a possibility.. I'm Glad to hear that Chris, it's good to know that there are professionals out there, in a sense, 'backing-up' procedures that I know I'll have to utilise. I always had the impression that anything but native 16:9 was bad juju. Tom: Golden advice as advise as always. addresstome@hotmail.com - appreciate it. Tim, I'm awaiting that magical camera as well.. you never know.. maybe if we click our heels three times.. Again, thanks a lot guys. I've finally decided that I'm going with the vx2100 - With the decision making out of the way(and weight of my poor shoulders), I just have to worry about getting it for the same 'sony insider' price. I suppose I'll know in a month or so. cheers.

November 3rd, 2003, 01:32 AM	#18
Anthony Milic Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 103	p.s. Tim (or anyone else), have you heard anything about release dates for the 2100 in Aust.? I can't find anything official. Retailers seem to jump from mid November to December, depending on whether or not they think they've got a sale out of you. Also, a q from out of nowhere - I was sitting and staring at the moon on a particularly clear night over the weekend. The thought came to me; '..could I film this?..' Is that possible? Just out of interest, what would happen if you tried to film a bright moon in the middle of the night sky? (with 2000)

November 3rd, 2003, 01:53 AM	#19
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Regarding VX2100 low light rating, there is another thread in which one of the dvinfo.net people spoke to a Sony rep. at a trade show and learned the the vx2100 1 lux rating was achieved through digital signal processing, not an improved CCD.

November 3rd, 2003, 04:22 AM	#20
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Could you film the moon? Sure thing. The moon and our earth are illuminated by the same light source. It's 93 million miles away and as the light reflected by the moon and the earth is very similar, the bright side of the moon should be given exactly the same exposure as you'd give on a sunny day out in your garden. But I'd bracket downwards if anything because the lack of atmosphere means more light reaches the moon's surface (and is reflected from it) than our earth. tom.

November 3rd, 2003, 04:35 AM	#21
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Tom, you do have a sense of humour. :)

November 3rd, 2003, 05:04 AM	#22
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	How do you know Frank? Or do you find my posts amusing? :-) anthonymilic@hotmail.... is it? Bounces, so can't send you the PDX frames.

November 3rd, 2003, 05:49 AM	#23
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Well, I found that post humorous, Tom---with those facts and observations. It's also way past my bed time. :)

November 3rd, 2003, 05:42 PM	#26
Anthony Milic Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 103	no Tom literally.. : 'addresstome@hotmail.com' hey'all. get some sleep! or stay off the 'moon'shine. 'ar 'ar... *sigh

November 3rd, 2003, 08:57 PM	#29
Anthony Milic Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 103	Thanks Mark, it seems the more I hear, the more I like! these are the evil Oz prices I've come across: US$4880 - RRP through Sony US$3840 - best retail I could find. US$3280 - sony insider. eeek

November 4th, 2003, 08:19 AM	#30
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	That's fascinating... are all 3 chip DV cameras priced in that range, or is Sony especially expensive? How about accessories like lenses, filters, batteries, etc... are they also priced higher than in the US? Well at least Miller tripods are made in Australia... right? Maybe you get a break on these? I paid about $800 for a DS-5 with aluminum legs at B&H.