BBC audio fix for VX2100? at DVinfo.net

Frank Granovski · October 21st, 2003, 01:55 AM

Will the BBC VX2000 audio fix work with the VX2100? Or will the BBC have to come up with a new fix? :)

---------------------------------------------
I guess the old Glenbox will continue to be a hot seller in Europe. :)

Bryan Beasleigh · October 21st, 2003, 10:09 AM

The audio was said to be improved on the VX2100. Why put the cart before the horse.

An XLR adapter with a preamp may be all that is required. That is all the Glen Sound is.

Frank Granovski · October 21st, 2003, 03:10 PM

The Glenbox is just part of the fix. :)

Bryan Beasleigh · October 21st, 2003, 03:36 PM

The Glen sound is a preamp as well as a balaced to unbalanced XLR adapter. It functions just fine on it's own. It wasn't produced just for the BBC fix, it was an existing high quality adapter.

The VX2100 may not be broken so why fix it? Sony did qnnounce the audio as a key upgrade, so lets wait and see.

Even the unaltered VX2000 will benifit from an amplified signal. Most DV cameras don't have what you'd call a high quality audio setup. A preamplified signal will net a better quality audio track. In the VX2K , the internal preamp lacks ballz, hence the dreaded hiss when too much gain is applied.

For example I input a signal from my Sound Devices mixer with the gain set at 30% on my VX2K. My meter is reading -12 to 0 on peaks.

If I was to input a weak signal and drive the VX2K's gain to 60 or 70% I get the dreaded hisssssssssssssssssssssss . Also, if you monitor the audio through the camera headphone jack, the audio will sound worse than it really is. the headphone amp bites as well.

With all it's warts I still love the VX2000. For the money you can't go wrong.

Jay rose recently tested the VX2K audio.
http://www.dv.com/forums/showReplies...&tid=118600016

A side note:
It seems the older I get the more my spelling sucks, and the less it actually bothers me. Oy Vey the pain of Dyslexia!

Frank Granovski · October 21st, 2003, 03:46 PM

Interesting VX2000 audio test. Thanks Bryan.

Dave Largent · October 22nd, 2003, 12:59 AM

A little tidbit that many may not know is that the BBC, when setting out to configure their "fix", tested the VX and found that
the best signal-to-noise ratio in manual audio mode is at 5-6 notches down from half. What they did then is permanently disable the the cam's on-board stereo mic. Then they permanently fixed the cam to record only at this 5-6 down position. In fact the only control over audio volume is the preamp bolted to the bottom of the VX. (I belive there is a whole drilled into the bottom of this Glen Sound box so that the whole thing can be tripod mounted.) This box has a limiter set at a fixed position. It does *not* supply phantom power because, it was said, they wanted to keep cost and size down.
The only other bolt-on preamp that I know of is the PSC Mjr.
Two mic inputs, fixed limiter, threaded hole on bottom for tripod mounting, 48V phantom power plus more. It's a good quality unit.
I looked at both these but got a Sound Devices. I liked the PSC
but it bulks up the bottom of the VX; seemed okay for tripod use but I wondered about handheld.

Bryan Beasleigh · October 22nd, 2003, 01:26 AM

I use a beach with an ME66 or if i can't use that i have a Sound devices 302. It's odd, but where you describe the sweet spot is where i have my gain set for use with the SD302.

I'm trying to rig a cable setup so that i can use my marzpak and velcro a double cable runfrom the mic and returning to the camera input. So far the beach works best.

I do have several mini stereo to xlr and TA3 cables. I'llbget it right one of these days.

Dave Largent · October 22nd, 2003, 02:22 AM

Ya, I noticed the coincidence, too, when I saw your comment about the 30% of max setting and how that's where " 5-6down" is. Interestingly, I read where a guy submitted his VX to an audio testing lab for analysis. This was a while back when all this talk of "hiss" was the rage. He reported that they, same as the BBC, found the manual signal-to-noise to be best at the same spot as the BBC. Must be true. By the way,
that's a funny one about having a Marzpak! Looks more like a "Mars pack", hey? For a moment you had me believing you really had one of those. I can't believe people really walk around with those things.
Sorry, Bryan, couldn't resist.
Actually, people probably wonder what's up the way I have my preamp wired up. See, I liked that PCS Mjr but it was too bulky. With the Sound Devices preamp, I have the pre clipped to my waist. I have the the camera-mounted mic's XLR cable running down my arm to the pre's mic-in. Then I have the pre's mic-out running up my arm to the cam's line-in. Then from the cam I have headphone-out cable running back down my arm to the pre's headphone-in. Then I plug my headphones into the pre's headphone-out. (Sometimes I think I shouda bought a PD150.)

Bryan Beasleigh · October 22nd, 2003, 08:02 AM

The marzpak is a 10 in nerd effect but still the very best money i ever spent. The harness and pack board are perfect for routing cable or for that matter carrying or securing any kind of gear.

The highlight is when i mount my disco ball to the shock cord , set the mast high and go dancing down the street. The fanny pack with it's two open side loops for bottled water handle any cocktail storage.

Seriously, I can carry my VX2k with mattebox (4x4 bellowswith support rods), Optex wide angle, mic and mixer with no problem at all. Any type of handheld shot is a breeze with absolutely no physical stress be it at arms length , waist high or at eye level.

People laugh before hand but never after they see that puppy in action.

You want a break, then just let go of the camera. All of the weight stays on your hips. The fanny pack will hold 8 beers, with 2 king cans in the side pockets.

Dave Largent · October 22nd, 2003, 08:11 AM

From the pictures I saw of it it looks like you couldn't really sit down with it on. What's that one joke about it though? Don't stand in one place too long or someone will hang a coat on the end.

Bryan Beasleigh · October 22nd, 2003, 10:14 AM

It really isn't all that funny. the marzpak is a whole lot better than some (most) of the mickey mouse shoulder braces that are available. They "look cool' yet serve little or no benefit. The marzpak costs the same as the higher priced doo-dads.
Who's the clown? The hero with the shaky footage that goes home with a back ache or the Marzpak user.

October 21st, 2003, 01:55 AM	#1
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	BBC audio fix for VX2100? Will the BBC VX2000 audio fix work with the VX2100? Or will the BBC have to come up with a new fix? :) --------------------------------------------- I guess the old Glenbox will continue to be a hot seller in Europe. :)

October 21st, 2003, 10:09 AM	#2
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	The audio was said to be improved on the VX2100. Why put the cart before the horse. An XLR adapter with a preamp may be all that is required. That is all the Glen Sound is.

October 21st, 2003, 03:10 PM	#3
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	The Glenbox is just part of the fix. :)

October 21st, 2003, 03:36 PM	#4
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	The Glen sound is a preamp as well as a balaced to unbalanced XLR adapter. It functions just fine on it's own. It wasn't produced just for the BBC fix, it was an existing high quality adapter. The VX2100 may not be broken so why fix it? Sony did qnnounce the audio as a key upgrade, so lets wait and see. Even the unaltered VX2000 will benifit from an amplified signal. Most DV cameras don't have what you'd call a high quality audio setup. A preamplified signal will net a better quality audio track. In the VX2K , the internal preamp lacks ballz, hence the dreaded hiss when too much gain is applied. For example I input a signal from my Sound Devices mixer with the gain set at 30% on my VX2K. My meter is reading -12 to 0 on peaks. If I was to input a weak signal and drive the VX2K's gain to 60 or 70% I get the dreaded hisssssssssssssssssssssss . Also, if you monitor the audio through the camera headphone jack, the audio will sound worse than it really is. the headphone amp bites as well. With all it's warts I still love the VX2000. For the money you can't go wrong. Jay rose recently tested the VX2K audio. http://www.dv.com/forums/showReplies...&tid=118600016 A side note: It seems the older I get the more my spelling sucks, and the less it actually bothers me. Oy Vey the pain of Dyslexia!

October 21st, 2003, 03:46 PM	#5
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Interesting VX2000 audio test. Thanks Bryan.

October 22nd, 2003, 12:59 AM	#6
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	A little tidbit that many may not know is that the BBC, when setting out to configure their "fix", tested the VX and found that the best signal-to-noise ratio in manual audio mode is at 5-6 notches down from half. What they did then is permanently disable the the cam's on-board stereo mic. Then they permanently fixed the cam to record only at this 5-6 down position. In fact the only control over audio volume is the preamp bolted to the bottom of the VX. (I belive there is a whole drilled into the bottom of this Glen Sound box so that the whole thing can be tripod mounted.) This box has a limiter set at a fixed position. It does not supply phantom power because, it was said, they wanted to keep cost and size down. The only other bolt-on preamp that I know of is the PSC Mjr. Two mic inputs, fixed limiter, threaded hole on bottom for tripod mounting, 48V phantom power plus more. It's a good quality unit. I looked at both these but got a Sound Devices. I liked the PSC but it bulks up the bottom of the VX; seemed okay for tripod use but I wondered about handheld.

October 22nd, 2003, 01:26 AM	#7
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I use a beach with an ME66 or if i can't use that i have a Sound devices 302. It's odd, but where you describe the sweet spot is where i have my gain set for use with the SD302. I'm trying to rig a cable setup so that i can use my marzpak and velcro a double cable runfrom the mic and returning to the camera input. So far the beach works best. I do have several mini stereo to xlr and TA3 cables. I'llbget it right one of these days.

October 22nd, 2003, 02:22 AM	#8
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Ya, I noticed the coincidence, too, when I saw your comment about the 30% of max setting and how that's where " 5-6down" is. Interestingly, I read where a guy submitted his VX to an audio testing lab for analysis. This was a while back when all this talk of "hiss" was the rage. He reported that they, same as the BBC, found the manual signal-to-noise to be best at the same spot as the BBC. Must be true. By the way, that's a funny one about having a Marzpak! Looks more like a "Mars pack", hey? For a moment you had me believing you really had one of those. I can't believe people really walk around with those things. Sorry, Bryan, couldn't resist. Actually, people probably wonder what's up the way I have my preamp wired up. See, I liked that PCS Mjr but it was too bulky. With the Sound Devices preamp, I have the pre clipped to my waist. I have the the camera-mounted mic's XLR cable running down my arm to the pre's mic-in. Then I have the pre's mic-out running up my arm to the cam's line-in. Then from the cam I have headphone-out cable running back down my arm to the pre's headphone-in. Then I plug my headphones into the pre's headphone-out. (Sometimes I think I shouda bought a PD150.)

October 22nd, 2003, 08:02 AM	#9
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	The marzpak is a 10 in nerd effect but still the very best money i ever spent. The harness and pack board are perfect for routing cable or for that matter carrying or securing any kind of gear. The highlight is when i mount my disco ball to the shock cord , set the mast high and go dancing down the street. The fanny pack with it's two open side loops for bottled water handle any cocktail storage. Seriously, I can carry my VX2k with mattebox (4x4 bellowswith support rods), Optex wide angle, mic and mixer with no problem at all. Any type of handheld shot is a breeze with absolutely no physical stress be it at arms length , waist high or at eye level. People laugh before hand but never after they see that puppy in action. You want a break, then just let go of the camera. All of the weight stays on your hips. The fanny pack will hold 8 beers, with 2 king cans in the side pockets.

October 22nd, 2003, 08:11 AM	#10
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	From the pictures I saw of it it looks like you couldn't really sit down with it on. What's that one joke about it though? Don't stand in one place too long or someone will hang a coat on the end.

October 22nd, 2003, 10:14 AM	#11
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	It really isn't all that funny. the marzpak is a whole lot better than some (most) of the mickey mouse shoulder braces that are available. They "look cool' yet serve little or no benefit. The marzpak costs the same as the higher priced doo-dads. Who's the clown? The hero with the shaky footage that goes home with a back ache or the Marzpak user.