Turning a VX2100 Into A PD170 (sort of) at DVinfo.net

Eliot Goshman · April 29th, 2004, 12:21 PM

So, I got this brainstorm.....I'll just order the handle assembly for a PD170 from Sony and replace the handle assembly on my VX2100, to get the XLRs and channel switches.

They're backordered two weeks on the part (must be on a slow boat from Japan)....but now I'm thinking...what if Sony put different internal connectors on each camcorder? Or some other problem....I'd be out $150.00....anybody try this yet??

Matt Stahley · April 29th, 2004, 04:49 PM

I would think there would be more to it than slappin on a new handle.Also $150 seems cheap for the phantom xlr box and all considering sony charges you $50 just for a lens hood.I would not reccomend you do this on your own unless you are a master of electronics and circuit boards.
Do you have a link where the handle is available?

Eliot Goshman · April 29th, 2004, 05:31 PM

Go to

https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/partsPLUS.aspx

and do a search based on the Model Number DSR-PD170, then select the country you're in, then select "exploded views", then select "upper handle section". Look for "handle assembly" in the parts list; you can also click on an icon on the right side of the page to show an exploded diagram of the parts contained in the handle assembly.

Eliot Goshman · April 29th, 2004, 05:45 PM

Hey, I screwed up! I checked the diagrams again and the handle assembly is just one part of the whole handle section....and the whole thing is a lot more than $150!! Oh well, back to the drawing board....

Bryan Beasleigh · April 29th, 2004, 07:54 PM

For a basic understanding of the PD150 vs VX2000 audio differences visit http://www.gregjwinter.com/modification2.htm

Greg explains the differences in as much detail as he dare. Regretably, good audio cost some bucks, no way around it.

If there was an easy way it would've been done a few years ago.

Greg J. Winter · April 30th, 2004, 04:11 PM

I looked at doing this myself about a year ago. Yes, you can order all the parts to make a handle, like the PD150. Came to about $1,200 in parts if I recall correctly... and to top that it will not even work! The connector is pin for pin match except that the V2k version of the VC-242 mainboard looks for certain signals that are present on the V2k handle. You might get sound, but it would not be what you expect!

Bottom line is that neither the PD150, PD170, VX2000 or VX2100 have great sound (like what you can record on a DAT recorder) for 3 reasons:

1. because the power supply voltages are not large enough to get good signal to noise ratio that you need for professional sound.

2. inexpensive parts used to save a few dollars per camera. Sony did upgrade the volume control to get 6 dB inprovement in S/N ratio - OK Sony that's a start.....

3. long, convoluted signal path and shared grounds pick up lots of noise - added to the lower voltages these audio signals run between only 0-6.3V as compared to professional -15V to +15V (see reason #1.)

So that is why I decided the best way to FIX this problem was to modify the camera to bypass all this and use a professional mixer/preamp.

Greg J. Winter
www.gregjwinter.com

Eliot Goshman · April 30th, 2004, 05:54 PM

Very interesting reading your site, Greg. Thanks for the insight.

Andrew Shrigley · May 3rd, 2004, 11:28 PM

How do you bypass to a mixer on a VX2100?

Bryan Beasleigh · May 3rd, 2004, 11:45 PM

So far you don't. I believe Greg Winters is trying to get a schematic for the VX2100. that mod is only for the tres picky.

The best is to input a higher level signal to your VX2100, keeping the internal gain on manual and at 25 - 40%. Otherwise you're stuck with battery operated high gain mics.

Read the posts on the mixers and the Beach DXA-8. Any of the units discussed wil give you Balanced inputs (XLRs) Phantom power, Limiters and preamplification.

Greg J. Winter · May 4th, 2004, 06:56 AM

I have schematics for the PD170/VX2100 now.... the audio section of the mainboard is exactly the same as the PD150/VX2000 with the exception of a new electronic volume control chip that is not as noisy as the one they use on the PD150/VX2000 - this is how they claim a 6 dB improvement in S/N ratio. The AGC sound is exactly the same between models. My mod is much better S/N at an improvement of 20 dB.

There is probably no change in the harmonic noise specs or the frequency response since there are no changes to the circuitry between camera releases (with the exception of the volume chip used only in manual gain mode - Jay Rose is planning on doing a comparision tests on a PD170 in the article he has planned on my modification in a upcoming article in DV magazine.

If anyone is unhappy with the noise and/or quality of audio with their new PD170 or VX2100.... wait until the year warranty expires and send the camera to me for modification. If you want to preview the sound you can expect, hook a mixer (even an inexpensive wall plug mixer will work) to the RCA jacks of an UNmodified PD150/170 or VX2000/21000 and record sound to the camera in VTR mode (does not work in CAMERA mode) and listen to the sound with headphones. You are limited to AGC mode only, but gives a good idea of what to expect.

Regards,
Greg J. Winter

April 29th, 2004, 07:54 PM	#5
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	For a basic understanding of the PD150 vs VX2000 audio differences visit http://www.gregjwinter.com/modification2.htm Greg explains the differences in as much detail as he dare. Regretably, good audio cost some bucks, no way around it. If there was an easy way it would've been done a few years ago. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"

April 30th, 2004, 04:11 PM	#6
Greg J. Winter New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 21	Turning a VX2k into PD150 I looked at doing this myself about a year ago. Yes, you can order all the parts to make a handle, like the PD150. Came to about $1,200 in parts if I recall correctly... and to top that it will not even work! The connector is pin for pin match except that the V2k version of the VC-242 mainboard looks for certain signals that are present on the V2k handle. You might get sound, but it would not be what you expect! Bottom line is that neither the PD150, PD170, VX2000 or VX2100 have great sound (like what you can record on a DAT recorder) for 3 reasons: 1. because the power supply voltages are not large enough to get good signal to noise ratio that you need for professional sound. 2. inexpensive parts used to save a few dollars per camera. Sony did upgrade the volume control to get 6 dB inprovement in S/N ratio - OK Sony that's a start..... 3. long, convoluted signal path and shared grounds pick up lots of noise - added to the lower voltages these audio signals run between only 0-6.3V as compared to professional -15V to +15V (see reason #1.) So that is why I decided the best way to FIX this problem was to modify the camera to bypass all this and use a professional mixer/preamp. Greg J. Winter www.gregjwinter.com __________________ Greg J. Winter Electronics Engineer www.gregjwinter.com

May 4th, 2004, 06:56 AM	#10
Greg J. Winter New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 21	VX2100 Schematics and Mod I have schematics for the PD170/VX2100 now.... the audio section of the mainboard is exactly the same as the PD150/VX2000 with the exception of a new electronic volume control chip that is not as noisy as the one they use on the PD150/VX2000 - this is how they claim a 6 dB improvement in S/N ratio. The AGC sound is exactly the same between models. My mod is much better S/N at an improvement of 20 dB. There is probably no change in the harmonic noise specs or the frequency response since there are no changes to the circuitry between camera releases (with the exception of the volume chip used only in manual gain mode - Jay Rose is planning on doing a comparision tests on a PD170 in the article he has planned on my modification in a upcoming article in DV magazine. If anyone is unhappy with the noise and/or quality of audio with their new PD170 or VX2100.... wait until the year warranty expires and send the camera to me for modification. If you want to preview the sound you can expect, hook a mixer (even an inexpensive wall plug mixer will work) to the RCA jacks of an UNmodified PD150/170 or VX2000/21000 and record sound to the camera in VTR mode (does not work in CAMERA mode) and listen to the sound with headphones. You are limited to AGC mode only, but gives a good idea of what to expect. Regards, Greg J. Winter __________________ Greg J. Winter Electronics Engineer www.gregjwinter.com

April 29th, 2004, 12:21 PM	#1
Eliot Goshman New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Deer Park, New York Posts: 22	Turning a VX2100 Into A PD170 (sort of) So, I got this brainstorm.....I'll just order the handle assembly for a PD170 from Sony and replace the handle assembly on my VX2100, to get the XLRs and channel switches. They're backordered two weeks on the part (must be on a slow boat from Japan)....but now I'm thinking...what if Sony put different internal connectors on each camcorder? Or some other problem....I'd be out $150.00....anybody try this yet??

April 29th, 2004, 04:49 PM	#2
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	I would think there would be more to it than slappin on a new handle.Also $150 seems cheap for the phantom xlr box and all considering sony charges you $50 just for a lens hood.I would not reccomend you do this on your own unless you are a master of electronics and circuit boards. Do you have a link where the handle is available?

April 29th, 2004, 05:31 PM	#3
Eliot Goshman New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Deer Park, New York Posts: 22	Go to https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/partsPLUS.aspx and do a search based on the Model Number DSR-PD170, then select the country you're in, then select "exploded views", then select "upper handle section". Look for "handle assembly" in the parts list; you can also click on an icon on the right side of the page to show an exploded diagram of the parts contained in the handle assembly.

April 29th, 2004, 05:45 PM	#4
Eliot Goshman New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Deer Park, New York Posts: 22	Hey, I screwed up! I checked the diagrams again and the handle assembly is just one part of the whole handle section....and the whole thing is a lot more than $150!! Oh well, back to the drawing board....

April 30th, 2004, 05:54 PM	#7
Eliot Goshman New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Deer Park, New York Posts: 22	Very interesting reading your site, Greg. Thanks for the insight.

May 3rd, 2004, 11:28 PM	#8
Andrew Shrigley Tourist Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 2	How do you bypass to a mixer on a VX2100?

May 3rd, 2004, 11:45 PM	#9
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	So far you don't. I believe Greg Winters is trying to get a schematic for the VX2100. that mod is only for the tres picky. The best is to input a higher level signal to your VX2100, keeping the internal gain on manual and at 25 - 40%. Otherwise you're stuck with battery operated high gain mics. Read the posts on the mixers and the Beach DXA-8. Any of the units discussed wil give you Balanced inputs (XLRs) Phantom power, Limiters and preamplification.