Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Full press release at Sony grows large sensor camera family with new 4K camera systems at DVInfo.net

See also Sony | Showcase

Re: Sony - The Future, Ahead of Schedule | October 30, 2012 #TheNewF
 

Wow! Way cool. I'm sure the prices will be out of this world for us 99 percenters ;)
But they hit it out of the ballpark this time!

Re: Sony - The Future, Ahead of Schedule | October 30, 2012 #TheNewF
 

Sony F55 and F5 | Film and Digital Times

Great tech overview. Great tech!

Re: Sony - The Future, Ahead of Schedule | October 30, 2012 #TheNewF
 

The F5 will offer high speed rates (120fps 4k RAW / 180fps HD) but only record internally in HD/2k and much like the FS700 require external recorder to allow any 4k codec or RAW recording. It's an upgraded F3 with 422 50mbps and capable of 4k out the back including RAW.

The F55 will record internally 2k (180fps), 4k (60fps) to current SXS card and can go fully RAW (2k RAW up to 120fps) to external recorder. The F55 uses the F65 sensor featuring color gamut exceeding film, and the F55 has a GLOBAL shutter equiv. to mechanical shutter for ZERO image distortion.

Both have 14 stops of dynamic range. ISO is 1250 on F55, and 2000 on F5. Both are very modular and will require separate module for XLR inputs and other future planned features. Both will record to Sony's new AXS-R5 recorder that uses a new AXS Memory Card. Both are pretty exciting.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Sounds great on paper. Now how long do we have to wait? What is the cost?

If the cost is really $25K for the F55 and it is on the market this winter it would be come my A-Cam, if it is up to the Sony marketing HYPE!

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

We should know more tonight apparently, either at 3pm or 8pm EST. Or who knows, maybe delayed until tomorrow...

As for delivery I heard Jan 2013 but again, don't take it as gospel.

Exciting times,

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Thanks Dennis,

Completely understand if they are delayed. Tough storm in RI and they were hit hard in NYC.

Jan delivery would be very nice.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

The quoted prices 15K and 25K probably exclude the VF, which will not come cheap and the 4K recorder. The F55 looks a far better deal, because it can record 4K without the external recorder, albeit not raw.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

F55 global Shutter is a huge breakthrough. Yea I bet the VF are at least $10K. I had a C35W on my F800 and PMW-500 and that was $10K new. 4K viewfinder won't be cheap.

Looking at a F5 all up I am sure you will spend $25-30K minimum with out glass. F55 I bet that will be $50-60K.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

According to this European dealer the prices are more than reasonable:

Sony PMW-F55 - Creative Ventures BVBA

Sony PMW-F5 - Creative Ventures BVBA

Probably without VF though...

Re: Sony - The Future, Ahead of Schedule | October 30, 2012 #TheNewF
 

I'm still trying to digest the information, but there are some anomalies starting to appear. In that link they say:
The first thing to say is that the F65 does not have a Bayer pattern - it's Q67. Main features of that are that photosite rows are at 45degrees to H&V, and there is one green photosite for each pixel of output resolution. So for 4k, there are 2x4096x2160 photosites total - about 20 megapixel.

As far as I can make out, the pattern for the F5 and the F55 seems to be the same - traditional Bayer at 4k. Which means 4096x2160 effective photosites, or close to 10 megapixel - half the count of the F65.

I suspect many people are surprised by how wide ranging the announcement is - far from just the new camera that was generally expected. As such it's probably one of the most significant single announcements I can remember in the industry.

Two cameras for a start. An obvious commitment to making 4k a "BIG THING", in a similar way to HD announcements about 10 years ago. And new codecs. The latter has been maybe a little overshadowed by everything else, but I think that would be wrong.

XDCAM422 50Mbs is likely to remain significant for some while to come, certainly in the broadcast TV world. But it's been becoming evident that there is room for something inbetween it and RAW to satisfy those for whom RAW is too much post hassle - but want more post grading flexibility than XDCAM422 allows. The new codec allows for 10 bit (and these cameras do seem to have front ends noise free enough to make that worthwhile) and such as 50p and 4k modes.

XDCAM422 was certainly a good solution when memory was expensive, and to an extent that's still the case. It also allows consumer media in such as the Canon cameras. But memory costs are falling year on year, so it's not the problem it was.

It remains to be seen exactly what the cost of these cameras are when equipped with viewfinder etc, but certainly the specs are likely to have got Canon worried so far. First impressions are very good. And for once they seem to listened to users regarding ergonomics........

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

There's an enormous amount to like about these cameras at this stage.

For obvious reasons (F65, F3) I have a lot of confidence that the image quality will be world class.
The cameras themselves are still in development as is the price structure.

But Sony has the opportunity to craft the finished cameras and pricing in tune with the 21st century market and so far they've been listening like no other camera company in the past decade.

For us the new Fs are the cameras worth investing in for our new upgrades and for the next few years (maybe longer looking at the F55)
The C's weren't, although we would have liked them to be.
If Sony finishes off their potential coup with genuinely competitive pricing then they'll get our multi-camera purchase as soon as they're available.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

So far, this is the best info regarding Sony's PMW-F55 and PMW-5.
Den Lennie from f-stop academy posted a hands-on introduction to the cameras.
Worth reading & Watching video included within the link!
Click below!

Sony F5 and F55 (From the horses mouth - not speculation...) - F-Stop Academy

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Thanks Trell good to see some of the options.

Still have not found pricing?

Is it true that SXS Pro only?

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

I believe that in the FB discussionwhere it was stated that the lowest bit rate setting would work with old SXS cards, but all others required the Pro version.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Thanks Philip.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Here's another link direct from Sony U.K.
Topic: PMW-F55
Video clip: 18 minutes in length!
Enjoy!

Introducing the PMW-F55 : Sony Professional

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

SxS Pro and SxS-1 will both work for 50Mbps 4:2:2 (and I think for XAVC at normal framerates).

Everything else (high-framerates, SRMaster recording) will require a new type of SxS card called "SxS Pro+".

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Thanks Mark, got it after viewing the video Trell posted.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Do not forget that a 32Gb SxS Pro card is $700. Not inexpensive, especially considering the high bit rates the F5/55 have.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

If I was to buy the F5 or F55 I would go for their new SxS Pro + 128GB cards. Cards are cheap when you look at these type of cameras. Always amazes me when people skimp and buy cheap cards.

Looking at the UK video the cameras will be very power hungry. Not sure what size battery he was using but it only last one hour. Maybe 90 W/h.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

I've not seen pricing on the new SxS Pro PLUS cards yet. Do you know the price range for the new ones?

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

No I do not know, but if you spend $75-90K on the F55 and $35-45K on the F5 the cards are the cheap part.

Remember the prices that have been push around on the web are body only. VF mostly likely will cost $10-15K, and then batteries, and the 4K unit. Still amazing for the price and I really hope we are proven wrong and the price comes in lower.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

regarding cards I think the pro+ cards will be priced around the same as current pro cards maybe slightly more.

Regarding AXS cards however, what we know are that for high speed cards capable of RAW data transfer whether it be RED, SRMaster, or Convergent Designs SSD media is that 512GB goes anywhere from $1500 to $4000 dollars. (1TGB = 60 minutes of RAW by the way.)

The F55 is definitely no average camera for average use. I think it is great Sony packed so much into it that made it compete with high end lines from RED and heck even the Alexa camera but people need to realize the cameras the F55 will compete with are in the $50k-$100k range. The best thing about the F55 is 4k with codec but it won't be long before 4k ext. recorders become available for even RED cameras again evening out the playing field.

4k is not going to be "cheap" by any stretch. FS700 owners will need a firmware upgrade (maybe free may not) and then a HXR-IFR5 for $2000 interface module unit in order to attach the AX5 recorder. Not cheap this stuff, not cheap.

I really can't wait to see pricing on all this stuff.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Right there with you Dennis, amazing gear for the cost.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

It's nice they have an integrated shoulder pad with rod support, but that external viewfinder plug that sticks out 90 degrees from the body seems like a suspect design issue.

In any kind of handheld situation, that viewfinder socket in the body is going to take some serious abuse.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Seriously Paul, you actually think Sony is going to charge $10 - $15k or more for a VF?

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Jim have you ever purchased a VF for a PDW F800, 700, or PMW 500? I had a C35W with my XDCAM Line. The C35W is $11K retail and that is not up to what they will offer with these cameras. So yes $10K is what I think the VF will cost.

Happy to be proven wrong but these are not budget cameras.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Yes, I've always had the best VFs on our cameras but there's a big difference between "not budget cameras" and a $10-15k evf in this market.

For instance the Red Bomb OLED is less than $4k, everyone loves the VF on the C300 and it's no extra charge, and you can mount a great Small EVF on any camera today for less than $1k, so no, I don't think Sony would charge anything like that today.

There's still an absolute lack of information on pricing, but if the school of "these are meant to be C300/C500 killers" is right, then Sony's not going to charge the price of a C300 for the evf on an F5.

If on the other hand you're right, and the F5 is going to be $35k+ camera, then Sony has missed the boat, and the majority of the market that's so excited right now will walk away.

I think you'll see a basic F5, directly aimed, as they say, at the corporate, doc and indie market, in the $15k+ range. The basic setup for that would be sans 4k recorder and with the basic EVF of their 3 options.

Sony isn't going to release the F5 for a price that would be equal to more than 2 fully rigged Red Scarlets.
The Scarlet full EF package is $16k, with everything and more than the F5 is offering (direct to disk 4K, no additional module.) And Red isn't dropping there prices because they think Sony is going to be charging more than them.

The F5 will compete with the Scarlet and the C300 pricing. That's the new benchmark for an affordable, professional film making rig. And Sony knows that they can own that market because the F5 offers so much more than the C300.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Jim I hope you are correct. If so I would keep my C300 and buy a F5.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

I hope so too Paul.
We were going to get a pair of Scarlet packages for an upcoming project after we realized there was not going to be any 60p on the C300s (our first choice.)
We've put all decisions on hold until we get the full info on the F5s.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

I was also looking at getting a Scarlet this month but put that on hold. The C300 was purchased the end of Sept and has worked hard and will work hard till the second camera shows up. I think the C300 now that I own it will be a nice B-Cam for the Scarlet or F5. Does not look like the C500 is even in my sights anymore.

I do find the C300 image quality matches or exceeds the PMW500, F800, 700 range of XDCAM, in a much smaller package and loads of lens choices for a fraction of the cost.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Sony are incredible. It seems hardly a month goes by without a major new release. Meanwhile i've heard nothing from Panasonic for what seems like aeons. No doubt they'll be back with new gear at some point, but in the Sonycentric UK at least, it's hard to see how they'll pick up much of the market share.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

You are not restricted to Sonys EVF options, you can use third party EVF's like the new Cineroid or Alphatron,. I think Sony realise that for the F5 in particular to really be a hit the package price is crucial hence the small 720p EVF.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

If you can go out and buy an ipod touch with a retina display for $299- why would you need to spend 10K on a viewfinder?
If you can get a display that good that cheaply, what's the other $9700- going to be spent on?

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

"The next big thing is already here."

I'm sure the ipod touch retina is a great display for $299, but quite honestly, if you don't understand the value of having an optical viewfinder attached on your F5 or F55, you should probably go ahead and just record the video with the ipod as well.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Hard to find any faults with that F5 camera.

About the high speed feature, Juan Martinez of Sony had this to say;

"And even at high speed, there’s no limit to the recording time because the cameras are not recording to a buffer and then spooling off to the recorder. You can record high frame rate for as long as there’s room on the card or in the recorder..."

And it can take Canon lenses.

TVTechnology: New Sony Cameras Designed for 4K TV

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Mitch Gross points out the differences between the Colour Filter Array of the sensors used on the F5 ans F55.
Sony’s PMW-F5 and F55: Defining CFA | CineTechnica

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Great article, Brian. Thanks for pointing it out. I particularly liked the explanation as to why the F5 sensor is rated at 2000 ISO and the F55 at 1250 ISO.

Re: Sony announces new 4K camera systems PMW-F55 and PMW-5
 

Agree David a must read by Mitch Gross to learn about the two sensors.