Archiving XD Cam EX Footage

Chris Leong · December 18th, 2007, 03:46 PM

FWIW, most of the people who attended the recent High Definition Summit in Los Angeles use LTO3s for their back up systems. (we're talking networks and high end production entities here, mostly in sports and other high memory / bulk storage arenas)

They were also talking about wavelet compression based technology (redcode, pro res, jpeg 2000 etc) and so-called intermediate mezzanine formats, and the current "best method" seems to be a dual one of HDD RAIDs plus the LTO3s.

However, the times, they are a-changing, and much faster than before. The newest compression technologies could mean emailing a movie, or near-VOD in full HD over the internet, within a year.

So a reasonable solution for the smaller operation may well be LTO2 technology. It's not the latest flavor of the month, is very well rated for long term storage, and the $1k plus LTO3 drives will read the media.

Trouble is that most of the LTO drives I've seen are SCSI devices...

Here we go again :-)

Piotr Wozniacki · December 18th, 2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Vaughan

Hmmm, didn't know that was possible with tape.

I have never transfered Data to Tape as a back up... other than the tape used for capturing footage in my camera of course.

In my old days with Unix workstations some 15-20 years ago, SCSI tape streamers were the only backup choice...

Ray Bell · December 18th, 2007, 04:10 PM

Tape is still the main storage for data in larger companies....

Kevin Shaw · December 18th, 2007, 04:32 PM

Out of curiosity, how much does it cost to buy a drive which can read/write XDCAM discs?

P.S. It seems funny that we're all excited about finally getting cameras which record to something other than tape, then talking about backing up to tape... :-)

Brad Vaughan · December 18th, 2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

In my old days with Unix workstations some 15-20 years ago, SCSI tape streamers were the only backup choice...

Very interesting Piotr. I appreciate you offering this information. It seems like this is the route I will go when I get my EX1 early next year!

Peter Wright · December 18th, 2007, 06:42 PM

I remember reading a while back about digital VHS as a data storage medium.
Could that have any relevance here?

Kevin - I agree, there's considerable irony in welcoming tapeless acquisition then using tape for back up ...

Andrew Wilson · January 2nd, 2008, 03:41 AM

Does anyone have experience with iomega's REV70?

I'm comparing mac-friendly archiving solutions.

I don't think hard drives are a good long term on-the-shelf archive solution.

LTO drives are crazy expensive and most seem to be SCSI but the media is only about .12 a gig for LTO-3. Plus, I'm having trouble finding a mac-friendly LTO drive... anyone?

The drive for Sony's U1 is $2800 and the media costs about 1.40 per gig (and for now, the firmware doesn't support the EX1's full raster). Plus, I think it will only back up video files. It's not a solution for backing up everything else associated with a project.

The REV70 is 70 gigs, the drive is under $400 but the media is about .85 a gig. Plus you can use the REV70 for backing up other data, unlike the U1.

So unless I can find a mac-friendly, affordable LTO solution, I think I'm going with the REV70 firewire drive.

opinions?

Peter Kraft · January 2nd, 2008, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Leong

Trouble is that most of the LTO drives I've seen are SCSI devices...

Chris, as far as have seen lately on the net there are quite a few SCSI cards für Desktop Macs as well as for Powerbooks or MacBooks Pro for that matter.
Unfortunately I can't tell you how reliable these work but if you buy an LTO drive from a system dealer ask him to provide the SCSI cards that fits. If it does not you can give back the whole bunch of useless gear. If its fits, be happy :-)

Peter Kraft · January 2nd, 2008, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson

opinions?

As long as Sony offers their XDCAM drives and similar expensive solutions, don't expect them to come up with something with a lower price. If you want a lower priced solution, go to the IT people and look how big companies make secure backups that saveguard data at least decade or even longer (as required by law). There is no cheap and at the same time secure data backup.

BTW, Piotr, with digital video, all the workflow is about data, nothing else.

Piotr Wozniacki · January 2nd, 2008, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kraft

BTW, Piotr, with digital video, all the workflow is about data, nothing else.

Sure it is Peter - I was just trying to realize that to Brad...

Matt Gottshalk · January 2nd, 2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kraft

Chris, as far as have seen lately on the net there are quite a few SCSI cards für Desktop Macs as well as for Powerbooks or MacBooks Pro for that matter.
Unfortunately I can't tell you how reliable these work but if you buy an LTO drive from a system dealer ask him to provide the SCSI cards that fits. If it does not you can give back the whole bunch of useless gear. If its fits, be happy :-)

SCSI to firewire adapter:

http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/FR1SX.html

Andrew Wilson · January 2nd, 2008, 04:48 PM

So far nobody is anti REV70?

Peter Kraft · January 2nd, 2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Gottshalk

SCSI to firewire adapter:

http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/FR1SX.html

Matt, now that's a most welcome information. Thanks.

Phil Bloom · January 3rd, 2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson

So far nobody is anti REV70?

I have returned mine as it isn't mac 10.5 compatible.

Andrew Wilson · January 3rd, 2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

I have returned mine as it isn't mac 10.5 compatible.

Was it the firewire only mac version or the USB version?

December 18th, 2007, 03:46 PM	#31
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Archiving FWIW, most of the people who attended the recent High Definition Summit in Los Angeles use LTO3s for their back up systems. (we're talking networks and high end production entities here, mostly in sports and other high memory / bulk storage arenas) They were also talking about wavelet compression based technology (redcode, pro res, jpeg 2000 etc) and so-called intermediate mezzanine formats, and the current "best method" seems to be a dual one of HDD RAIDs plus the LTO3s. However, the times, they are a-changing, and much faster than before. The newest compression technologies could mean emailing a movie, or near-VOD in full HD over the internet, within a year. So a reasonable solution for the smaller operation may well be LTO2 technology. It's not the latest flavor of the month, is very well rated for long term storage, and the $1k plus LTO3 drives will read the media. Trouble is that most of the LTO drives I've seen are SCSI devices... Here we go again :-) Last edited by Chris Leong; December 18th, 2007 at 07:26 PM.

December 18th, 2007, 04:10 PM	#33
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	Tape is still the main storage for data in larger companies....

December 18th, 2007, 04:32 PM	#34
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	Out of curiosity, how much does it cost to buy a drive which can read/write XDCAM discs? P.S. It seems funny that we're all excited about finally getting cameras which record to something other than tape, then talking about backing up to tape... :-)

December 18th, 2007, 06:42 PM	#36
Peter Wright Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 193	I remember reading a while back about digital VHS as a data storage medium. Could that have any relevance here? Kevin - I agree, there's considerable irony in welcoming tapeless acquisition then using tape for back up ...

January 2nd, 2008, 03:41 AM	#37
Andrew Wilson Tourist Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vermont, USA Posts: 123	Does anyone have experience with iomega's REV70? I'm comparing mac-friendly archiving solutions. I don't think hard drives are a good long term on-the-shelf archive solution. LTO drives are crazy expensive and most seem to be SCSI but the media is only about .12 a gig for LTO-3. Plus, I'm having trouble finding a mac-friendly LTO drive... anyone? The drive for Sony's U1 is $2800 and the media costs about 1.40 per gig (and for now, the firmware doesn't support the EX1's full raster). Plus, I think it will only back up video files. It's not a solution for backing up everything else associated with a project. The REV70 is 70 gigs, the drive is under $400 but the media is about .85 a gig. Plus you can use the REV70 for backing up other data, unlike the U1. So unless I can find a mac-friendly, affordable LTO solution, I think I'm going with the REV70 firewire drive. opinions?

January 2nd, 2008, 04:48 PM	#42
Andrew Wilson Tourist Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vermont, USA Posts: 123	So far nobody is anti REV70?