I just noticed the 0% financing for 24 months on the sony Europe site.

This will be a major incentive to go with Sony.

I hope they offer this in the US.

That's a debatable statement given that the EX1 records full-raster 1080p video while the HVX200 uses horizontal recording compression. The trade-off betweeen GOP-based and frame-based recording will also be a factor here, plus as Jason noted the overall 'look' of the footage will probably be different. My guess it that people who like footage from the HVX200 will still like it after the EX1 ships, and people who are happy with the Sony look will really like the EX1.

I think the statements about the memory cards may be off. These cards are specifically made for Sony by SanDisk, with proprietary insides connected to an industry standard interface (expresscard). Not sure if you can use off the shelf SSD cards, or if there are any with native expresscard interface besides these.

Sanddisk is selling 32gig cards with SATA HD interface, and hooking up 2 to a standard SATA Raid 0 gets you pretty good performance.

With all due respect, I don't think this new camcorder is going to slacken the use of 35mm adapters. I personally can't wait to try my Brevis adapter on the EX...though with a 77mm front thread, I think adapters are going to need a redesign, or a new achro at very least.

But then that's comparing the European price for the EX1 to the US price for the HVX200, so don't be too sure it's going to work out that way. And don't forget to factor in the price of memory cards when comparing those two cameras, which should quickly even out any cost difference without memory.

The brochure says 50 minutes with a 16 gig card at the HQ, ie., the 35mbs mode. So you'd get 100 minutes with two of the cards, 140 minutes at the 25mbs rate. With two 32 gig cards you could shoot for over 3 hours at top quality. If 32 gig cards are only 500 bucks, you spend around $2K on media and you have a camera that you can use for a lot of shooting situations, plus the advantages of larger chips. What's not to like.

I shoot a lot of interviews with a 2/3" chip camera, and I can always blur the background if I can control the lighting. With a 1/3" chip camera I can get that kind of depth of field only on the head and shoulder shots. The 1/2" chips will be between those two and should provide a reasonable level of depth of field control for many things. I like to keep the background soft for interviews in public places because some dork always walks by in the background and looks at the camera. Blur him and nobody notices. It's not going to be as good as 2/3" chips obviously, but better than 1/3".

I also like the fact that Sony has made the tapeless workflow actually reasonable with the bigger capacity cards and the little portable XDCAM disc burner. The capacities of the cards are enough so you don't have to stop while you're shooting and download footage. And when you do download it, it should be relatively easy to burn XDCAM discs so you can file it for later use. I personally still perfer tape because of that time it takes after the fact to make a permanent copy of the footage, but at least this system is getting much closer to practicality for me than other tapeless things. I've seen and handled the XDCAM HD 350 in person and really liked it. But if this one is close in image quality, which it should be, it's about 1/3 the price. Lots of small production companies could handle the after-the-shoot time to make discs for that kind of money.

I misstated my thoughts. What I should have written was essentially what Sony appears to be claiming, i.e. a more film-like DOF look than other camcorders in the EX's class.

I agree with your comments. I don't see significant prospects for diminished use of adapters on the EX (assuming re-designs to accomodate the front thread are in fact forthcoming).

Actually all you would need is a 77mm to 72mm stepdown ring to make this work with most adapters (the HVX200 uses a 82mm to 72mm stepdown ring).

Todd

todd,

forgive me if I am wrong, but i thought all of the 35 mm adapter out there were optimized for 1/3 ccds only and that you would need something similar to the P+S Technik pro 35 for the sony EX.


rand

In my understanding, the way the 35mm adapters work should not matter if you have 1/4", 1/3" or 1/2" or larger sensors.

Basically, the 35mm lens is projecting an image on a piece of 'ground glass'.

An achromat allows the camera to zoom in, focus on, and only capture the image on the ground glass.

So, in my opinion, having a 1/2" sensor should give me a better image using my Redrock M2.

I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

Actually most 35mm will work with the EX1. I know that the problem really has little to do with the imager size, but rather the position of the larger cameras in relation to rod placement (M2 for example; there has been discussions on the redrock micro site). People have successfully mounted to the Panasonic HPX500 (2/3rds imagers) with their M2's.

Brian Valente over at redrock posted this after I asked about mounting the M2 to the EX:

"The M2 etc. looks promising to fit onto that camera. The issue has never been one of image sensor size, but more form factor and lenses. The 2/3" and 1/2" cameras are huge and have rods that are far below them. They also have really big complex lenses. This little EX looks like the kind of form factor that could be a real winner with the M2."

Hope that helps!

Definitely would be helpful from the stand point of light gathering capabilities. Sounds like the the 1/2" chips might giving about two stops or so more exposure capability, which would be a tremendous boon to the 35mm adapter technology. One thing we fight all the time is the grain associated with gain needed in many of the adapter shooting situations.

Maybe out of topic, but i know i would be looking to put a 35mm adapter to the EX (if its not $8000), anyways,

The m2 is a light hog. Watch this test http://www.richard-darge.com/m2brevis.htm

I hope the EX have an image flip function. But thinking like Sony, i dont think it will happen.

It may well mean something similar to the blurb in Sony''s pre-NAB press release regarding XDCAM HD regarding chip size. They indicated that the 1/2 chips they are using make full use of the face of the sensor, giving their 1/2 chips performance that is more like 2/3.

This accounts for the some of the wow factor that many grizzled 2/3 camera owners expressed when seeing what the full size XDCAM cameras were capable of.

-gb-

thanks guys for clearing that up,

I thought that I would have to just be satisfied with whatever DOF that the EX could give. Its good to know that there should'nt be any problems with 35mm adapters like the redrock micro
,sgpro or the brevis 35 working with a 1/2 inch image sensor.

rand

Well, they kinda all are...the Cinevate Brevis is one of the most light-efficient adapters on the market, and I still have a hard time shooting interiors without gaining up a touch, or breaking out a light kit. This is with fast glass. Another consideration is that most Nikon lenses are at optimum image quality when you stop them down further. And if I have to break out lights, it doesn't really matter how light-efficient the adapter is. I'm not complaining, but it's just the nature of the beast. I think shooting with a 35mm adapter forces you to slow down and shoot in more film-style, and take better care with lighting..be it P+S, M2, Brevis, or the SGPro. Anyway, Chris is probably poised to bring the smackdown as we get even further off topic (don't shoot boss, shaking the bush...) :-)

Oh please please please have a flip setting...

The price is EUR6,500 according to the IBC daily news email I just got..

Hmmm

Quick edit : heres the link: http://www.ibc.org/cgi-bin/enews_cms..._no=64&issue=8

Fortunately for you Matt, that endearing Cool Hand Luke reference gets you off the hook... this time.

Any man who loses his spoon spends a night in the box,

One of the biggest seller of this EX cam is the expectation that the cam can use generic Express Card as its recording medium. Meaning a lower prices compared to that of the Panasonic P2 card technology.

Now report from http://ibc.mikkowilson.com/ clearly stated that generic express card is not usable at all. With the current published prices, the SxS card is priced roughly the same as the P2 card.

We also see Sony's strong commitment of staying with optical discs on their higher end XDCAM cameras. Would this SxS suffers the same faith as many of Sony proprietary formats ? At least Panasonic is solid on P2 and moving all their higher end 2/3" ENG cams to P2, so we know P2 wont be abandoned just because of sluggish Hvx200 sales.

Panasonic also just announced their 32 gig p2 card for MSRP $1650 which might translate to street price of $1400 - $1500.

Not only the camera is (according to euro currency exchange rate) to be near $USD9000 with the SxS media at comparable price as the well established P2, suddently the EX is not an attractive option anymore.

Where have you read the price of the SxS cards? I've been wanting to know what they cost.

According to Nigel Cooper, Sony and Sandisk will be the first to make SxS cards, but others will follow. Although P2 and SxS prices currently look comparable (in fact SxS is at least 3 times cheaper minute for minute) it's likely that prices will drop on SxS once R&D costs have been recouped and other manufacturers get in on the act. Also the camcorder at IBF is preproduction, so it may not be a fair to assume generic cards won't work based on a quick play at a trade show. Earlier discussions pointed to the fact that there were two different types of bus technology in these flash memory cards (one of which will not be supported by the XDCAM EX) so if the generic card was a USB based card, it wouldn't work anyway.

According to Sony website: "The 8GB SBP-8 will be priced around €400 and the 16GB SBP-16 around €700." SO, that is roughly around $550 (8 gig) and $960 (16 gig). Now this is msrp and we have to wait till the thing is released to know the street price.

Again, you must remember that a straight currency conversion won't get you the real world price in US dollars. You'll have to wait and see what they cost in the US from US vendors.

-gb-

Greg's spot on with this.

I think US$600 or so for a 16Gb won't be too far off (streetprices, not MSRP).
So really quite a bit less than P2 cards (probably! like Greg said... let's see).

This is the only reason for pause with this camera.

Everything else looks like a homerun.

Even with a lower US price for the SxS, they are not at the price point where most buyers of this camera are going to go out and stock up on on cards to have ample recording time.

Although Sony prices for the F330 and F350 cameras have been LESS in Europe than they are in the US. So I think it's difficult to call either way until someone at Sony actually gives a price!

$6999 with 2x 8 gig (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=103089) SxS card is not that bad of a price. If it's 2x 16 gig card, i am preordering the cam ASAP.

Yea, 2x16GB would be sweet but I wouldn't start a wedding unless I knew I had at least 4 hours of record time up my belt.

I agree with you there Guy. The 2 8GBs are always usable for preparation or photo sessions but I would need for safety 2 hrs for the ceremony and 2 hrs for reception. So I need an additional 4x16GB cards. My only concern now is the cost and using other cards that'll work in place of Sony's SxS card. I just need to calm down from being overly excited.

I am with you there too. I can't really afford to buy one, yet I think I have too anyway. The real problem is I have to also find the money for cards, which if SxS only, is going to be a real problem, especially with the Nikon D3 I need (read want) to buy and all...

"Price is only a problem if you make it one" (car sales man)

Prices will drop rapidly - especially when Canon et al. have the same tech. I wouldn't buy one now, unless ROI = quickly.

This is true and having conducting my own survey with P2 users, memory price and difficulties to archive shot material is a major drawback (often under estimated...) in the production workflow. That said, XDCAM EX records much smaller files than P2 and that itself makes the format way more efficient, transportable and cost-effective.

Thierry.