PDW EX1 brochure discussion

Peter Jefferson · September 6th, 2007, 10:20 PM

"It would be reasonable to guess that the low-light ability will be at least similar to that of HD cameras with 1/3" chips containing fewer pixels,"

I posted about this before, but with the size of the CMOS relative to the pixel count vs. its SD cousins, it should, mathematically, come very close to SD sensitivity... I'd say close to what a DVX100 can pull off.

Theodore McNeil · September 6th, 2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

But that was comparing to the Panasonic HPX500 which costs several times as much and has even larger sensors; what's more relevant is how the EX1 will compare to other <$10K HD cameras.

My bad, the size comparison photos with the hvx200 confused me. Thanks Kevin.

See I told ya it is too early to throw your hands up.

Piotr Wozniacki · September 7th, 2007, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

Sensitivity is F10 at 2000 lx.

To put this in perspective:

JVC HD100/200/250 1/3" HD (720p) F8 @ 2000 Lux
Sony XDCAM HD 330 1/2" HD Camera F9 @ 2000 Lux
Sony XDCAM HD 350 1/2" HD Camera F9 @ 2000 Lux
Sony HDW-750P HDCAM 2/3" HD Camera F10 @ 2000 Lux
JVC DV500 1/2" SD Camera F11 @ 2000 Lux
Sony DSR450 2/3" SD Camera F11 @ 2000 Lux
JVC DV5100 1/2" SD Camera F13 @ 2000 Lux

For those not aware, the larger the F stop rating at 2000lux the more sensitive a camera is. Sony have never published these ratings on cameras such as the Z1, but taking it is very similar in sensitivity to the JVC HD100 it puts it a Z1 at around F8 @ 2000 lux.

One F stop represent double or half the amount of light. F stop numbers are not linear though, we have

f/1, f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6, f/8, f/11, f/16, f/22, f/32, f/45, f/64, f/90, f/128

So taking f/8 and f/11 as a single full stop difference, the EX1 is about 2/3 of a stop more sensitive than a Z1.

Guy, for comparison sake - how would the V1 be rated with this method? Is it F7@2000 lux, or lower?

Guy Barwood · September 7th, 2007, 04:26 AM

To be honest mate I have no idea. Sony don't publish the @2000lux specs on all other camcorders. I physically compared a HD101 to a Z1 when the HD101 came out so I was only estimating that rating on my approximation and the fact JVC do publish @2000lux ratings for the HD series.

David Heath · September 7th, 2007, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

Sensitivity is F10 at 2000 lx.

To put this in perspective:

JVC HD100/200/250 1/3" HD (720p) F8 @ 2000 Lux
Sony XDCAM HD 330 1/2" HD Camera F9 @ 2000 Lux
Sony XDCAM HD 350 1/2" HD Camera F9 @ 2000 Lux
Sony HDW-750P HDCAM 2/3" HD Camera F10 @ 2000 Lux
JVC DV500 1/2" SD Camera F11 @ 2000 Lux
Sony DSR450 2/3" SD Camera F11 @ 2000 Lux
JVC DV5100 1/2" SD Camera F13 @ 2000 Lux

For those not aware, the larger the F stop rating at 2000lux the more sensitive a camera is. .......

Guy, there is a big caveat in what you say there, and that is that such figures are only meaningful if the S/N ratios are specified. (And I believe Sony have said 54dB for the EX.) Unless you can be sure that all the cameras are the same, you can't draw any real conclusions from those figures.

If one camera had a S/N of 51dB say, but same stop at 2000lux, it would NOT be as sensitive as the EX, but rather a stop less sensitive - equivalent to an EX with 3dB of gain in! In practice, it gets even more complicated than that......

Guy Barwood · September 7th, 2007, 05:57 AM

Sure, but it means a hell of a lot more than those min lux ratings.

Peter Jefferson · September 7th, 2007, 06:16 AM

Like I've said a number of times, lux ratings mean nothing when it comes to camcorders considering the fact that each CCD is a different size (yup... i said SIZE), res, Image Processing (i.e. Digic II va Pana 12bit RGB), and above all of these... GAIN.

Don't bother trying to compare luminance sensitivity in this way. The only way to REALLY know is to line the cameras up side to side and film the same environment with the same lighting and find the optimal exposure whether its using gain on or not.

Much like res chart analysis, Lux readings can only be verified when you're out there and you're actually FILMING..

Scott Vystrcil · September 7th, 2007, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Speaking of zoom: can the the zoom ring also be detached from the servo motor, for that quick zooms that can only be done by hand? There is no hardware switch for that (like the two positions of the focus ring), but perhaps it can be chosen in the menu and hopefully assigned to a button. Wishful thinking?

I think it's there, but under all of the other switches. (NOTE...Sorry, I notice that this was already posted)

September 6th, 2007, 10:20 PM	#76
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	"It would be reasonable to guess that the low-light ability will be at least similar to that of HD cameras with 1/3" chips containing fewer pixels," I posted about this before, but with the size of the CMOS relative to the pixel count vs. its SD cousins, it should, mathematically, come very close to SD sensitivity... I'd say close to what a DVX100 can pull off.

September 7th, 2007, 04:26 AM	#79
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	To be honest mate I have no idea. Sony don't publish the @2000lux specs on all other camcorders. I physically compared a HD101 to a Z1 when the HD101 came out so I was only estimating that rating on my approximation and the fact JVC do publish @2000lux ratings for the HD series.

September 7th, 2007, 05:57 AM	#81
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	Sure, but it means a hell of a lot more than those min lux ratings.

September 7th, 2007, 06:16 AM	#82
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Like I've said a number of times, lux ratings mean nothing when it comes to camcorders considering the fact that each CCD is a different size (yup... i said SIZE), res, Image Processing (i.e. Digic II va Pana 12bit RGB), and above all of these... GAIN. Don't bother trying to compare luminance sensitivity in this way. The only way to REALLY know is to line the cameras up side to side and film the same environment with the same lighting and find the optimal exposure whether its using gain on or not. Much like res chart analysis, Lux readings can only be verified when you're out there and you're actually FILMING..