EX and accessories
 

Saw some pictures of the EX at the NYC event with a Mattebox and FF attached, think it was Chrosziel if my memory serves me well.

Anyone have any thoughts about alternative makes (I'm more interested in FF rigs than MBs right now but would like to buy everything together. I've seen a couple of of those in other reviews and Cavision just posted a yet-to-be shipped clamp-on model).

The Chrosziel gear is nice of course but painful on the wallet.

BTW, can anyone here who used the camera tell me something about the auto-focussing (and I am certain I know the answer to this borderline-foolish question but I'd like to be sure). In auto-focus mode, does the focus ring actually remain stationary like it would on a regular servo lens?

That's true for every camera I owned but as this lens has fixed stops in manual mode, I was just curious.

Reason-is, I'd like to have the camera permanently set-up with a FF but still have the option to pull it off the tripod and do the occasional run and gun action shot in auto-focus mode (I do a lot of travelogue filming, with many of my shots carefully set-up but every once and a while something spontaneous happens close by, which I want to grab and I find myself running down a street or through a market to capture it).

Depending on how easy it is to disengage/re-engage the FF cog, remembering to do so in the heat of the moment etc. I wouldn't want the auto focus mechanism driving the FF, no matter how light the torque was. AFAIK, the amount of 'travel from manual to auto mode is only a few MMs, so it probably won't let you 'push' it forward and off the FF cog.

Probably a silly question but heck, you've gotta ask.

Also, seen some commenatry on a Sony wide angle adapter that the camera will dod CAC for, anyone have any more info or pricing on this? Presumably this correction is callibrated just for the Sony glass?

TIA

Have a look at page 1 of this pdf doc:

http://tvbeurope.com/pdfs/TVBE_downl...P53-73_IBC.pdf

Hawk-Woods have come out with an interesting product. We can now continue using all our 12V PAG and AB lights, powered by the relative light weight Sony NPF compatible batteries. Very useful for low light filming on the run (without any tripod). The only minus point in this product is the fact that it cannot take the new 12v batteries of the EX. It would be nicer if we had to buy only one type of battery and use them either way. ...maybe someone knows any of these Hawk-Woods guys and can pass on this request...?

That seems interesting enough, but... what's it got to do with follow focus, matte boxes and whether or not the focus ring moves when in AF mode?

Nothing really - I've just put this link to this accessory since this thread is dedicated to the EX and accessories. I just wanted to share this seemingly interesting accessory with you all.

In view of the (current) high cost of solid state media, does anyone know anything, or heard any whispers, about a hard-drive add-on (such as Firestore, or Sony's own, etc.) for the EX1?

According to this thread - http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=105283 - you may be in luck.

"20. Can the EX1 record to DR60 (in SP mode, of course) without any SxS card inserted (or with them both 100% full)?

Good news here – the EX can both communicate with and record to the DR60 (in SP mode only) without any SxS cards inserted. And can record when both SxS cards are full, or as a backup whilst they’re recorded to."

Alternatively there's the XDR from Convergent Design. Still solid state, but (in 35/50Mbs mode) can use medium spec (and much cheaper than SxS) Compact Flash. (And much faster boot up time than hard drive based devices.)

"SP Mode only" - shame - rather a waste: not really good enough.

Much more interesting - thanks! I must follow that up.

A lot of discussion and manufacturer feedback at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=102312

and a spec pdf at http://www.convergent-design.com/dow...lash%20XDR.pdf

The long GOP MPEG streams (100Mbs, as well as 50 and 35) can be written to fairly cheap CF cards like Extreme III, the 160Mbs I-frame only rate requires higher spec like Extreme IV. Stll a lot cheaper per GB than P2 or SxS though.

Speaking of accessories: one essential and obvious accessory to order along the EX1 (apart from large battery and other basics) is a shotgun microphone. One of the renowned European online stores suggests the short ECM-673 shotgun. I know nothing about the quality of Sony shotguns, except that the one that came with my V1 has been rather poor (well, at least not sensitive enough).

Do you think the ECM-673 is an appropriate choice for the EX1? Or - to stay within the same price range - would the Rode NTG1 be better (it's a bit longer and thinner, and one would need to device some rubber sleeve for it to fit the holder; the ECM-673 seems to be better fit to mount straight from the box).

Rode Mic
 

I bought a Rode NTG2 for my Z1 and all I can say it was a PIA to not be able to use the onboard Sony "shock mount" for the mic. Not only was the mic too small ( or hole to big), as you mentioned about the adapter, but even after trying that route it still picked up the motor noise EASILY.

I tried the shock mount that the Rode came with but that took up the shoe mount and made the cam really unbalanced. I was hoping on hope that we would be able to mount a mic right on the cam and not have motor noise on the EX but there may be noise from the internal fans.

Sony will need to make a mic that kills that noise somehow. I never bought the Sony shotgun so I don't know if this was an issue with that mic.

I spoke to Sony about this very issue (mic/camera noise) at HD World Expo in NYC. The internal fan is quiet but keep in mind the other noises (zoom for example) make noise. They said like any other situation, the best way to mic is near the subject (lav, boom). Of course they said the Sony shotgun (ECM-673) is fine for on camera use with the above caveat.

I've always considered getting an ECM-674 or ECM-678 though I can never find reviews online. People always go for the Rode or the AT, or the Sennheiser. But I like the idea of this fitting nicely into my V1U mic-mount.

I've tried using an NT3 with a Rode SM3 shock-mount but it's a nuissance for run and gun.

I agree
 

I agree that the shock mount is a nuisance for run and gun.

I bought a fuzzy wind screen for the Z1 onboard mic and have been using that more and more. Obviously I get much closer to the subject but the convenience factor is HUGE. Maybe a switch on the EX can narrow the pic up pattern :) That would be nice :) hehe ala Steve Jobs.. one more thing..

I'm happy with the Sony UWP lav systems. I find the handheld mic too directional and if people don't point it right at thier voice it is way worse than the onboard mic.

"OK now please point the mic at your voice....." and then they start flailing thier arms thanking all the people who could make it.... :) lovely.

Ranting, sorry.

I want to see what the wide angle lens looks like and if it weighs a TON.

Mike

Hi there
I've not found the diametre of the mic an issue with the Z1...(I used an AT897 as the mounted mic) you just bind some gaffer tape around it until it's as thick as a Sony mic... works fine.

That said it these mounts aren't the best and some handling and zoom noise is inevitable, but I've not found it unacceptable as most of the onboard mic stuff I use is ambient anyway...For speech, and general audio I'm using a boom or lavs... then adding different backing, music and sound effects tracks.. I'd be surprised if the Sony mics have less noise pick up than either the Rode or the AT.

I suppose its the same mount on the EX as on the Z1 or very similar?
Cheers
Gareth

The RedRock follow focus is really good. Only $600.

They are coming out with a matte box for $500 that looks like it will be a must have as well.

Cavision follow focus units get good online reviews from people. While not build to Arri standards, the units are supposed to have zero play, making them ideal for professional productions.

light for the EX1
 

Sorry guys, you're discussing some high-end stuff here and here I am again with another basic one (after the microphone): an on-camra light.

Of course the choice of solutions is huge out there, but what do you think of the PAG systems? A Paglight M can accomodate a 35W halogen, or 100W-equivalent PowerARC bulb in the future...I can see the batteries come with several voltages flavours - 12, 13.2 or 14.4V - so, if I wanted to power both a light and the camera from a PAGbelt for instance, which voltage should I choose?

Or do you suggest other, more obvious solutions?

Don't be sorry Piotr, be glad that Sony is stepping up with a camera that has such a wide range of potential applications. That means you can use the camera for whatever you are using it for, and then later you have the flexibility to shoot a film style production on the same base platform.

I don't think I've ever had occasion to use an on camera light, so you can see how different potential users productions might be.

In the meantime we both learn from the discussion- and that makes us better at our jobs!

OK, so - after the microphone and a light - here I go with yet another basic accessory inquiry: a monopod. Yeah, I know this should probably go to another forum, but read on - this *IS* EX1-specific!

I'd appreciate someone's opinion on which Manfrotto monopod to choose:

- the MN 561B (heavy, but with tilting head and arm)
- the MN 562B (not so heavy, but without tilting head)

Both have panning "head" at the base.

If I could use my 501Pro LANC with the EX1, I'd certaily go with the 561B; I could fix the controller on the handle and use it almost like a tripod. However, the LANC is most probably out of question and one needs to hold the camera by the hand-grip most of the time, using the left hand for operating the lens rings and all the buttons. Therefore, I wonder if because of this, the 562B is more optimal for the EX1?

I never used a monopod before, so will really apreciate your advice on how practical tilting is. I imagine that in order to tilt down or up with a monopode w/o a tilting head, one needs to move the whole monopod forth and back to tilt it around its base pivot; the needed movement distance being quite considerable for even slightest lens tilting angle - is it convenient enough, or should I go with the heavier 561B version that does have a tilting head - even though it's heavier?

The whole matter may sound trivial, but add to it the EX1's hand-grip rotation capability and you have quite a decision problem to solve!

Further to Piotr's remark about LANC controllers:

Could we gather here any information about those controllers that will work with the EX1 (via an adapter if necessary), given that the EX1 has anything BUT a standard LANC socket?

The very odd response I got from the Sony rep at HD World Expo in NYC was that they don't know yet what will work with their connector.

At IBC, the camera was apparently shown with the Libec ZC-9 Pro 8-pin Fujinon lens controller - but nobody seems to know about the adaptor, plugged in between the Libec and the EX's proprietary socket.

Manfrotto has also introduced an 8-pin Fujinon controller (524FN), and a 8-12 pin adaptor, but the EX'1 socket is not 12 pin or the standard Fujinon 8-pin!

Well, I should get some news from Manfrotto soon; I'l keep you posted.

EDIT BTW, what does the Angenieux 8-pin socket look like? Have been trying to google for it, but haven't found any pictures...

PS Please disregard - Chris has enlightened me in the other thread that the EX1's socket is NOT the Angenieux type, either.

Programable
 

I wonder if the extravagant lens controller plug is for a more complex "programable" device that can be preprogramed to rack and zoom etc.

Mike, that's the exact same question (in almost the exact same words) that I asked Sony at their U.S. press event held for this camera last month in New York; the answer was simply a smile telling me that we'd have to wait and see.

Hmmm, maybe I'll stop digging around for a follow-focus.

:)
 

Wait n see ........ hmmm. It would be rather cool to have a new set of gadgets that could all run "in series" like the light that comes on when you hit the start button, a wireless timecode sync thingy for two cam shoots, all sorts of cool stuff.

How about a little more to look forward to?

Mike

Keep dreaming, Mike.... on the other hand, perhaps they learned that they shouldn't take their customers for granted. After Panasonic and JVC made some serious gains in the lower end HD/HDV market, Sony is offering a bit more than they have in a while. Quite a bit more, actually!

I wish Avid learned from their example...

I have posted questions about 3 rather basic accessory dilemmas in this thread; would appreciate it very much if someone cared to address them with some advise :) TIA

Accessories . . .
 

For years I used the Sennheiser ME66 short shotgun with my PD-150, which has the same mic mount as the V1 (and maybe the Z1?). Just wrap a couple of rubber bands around the appropriate end and it will fit in the mount just fine, without the residue of gaffer's tape.

I owned a V1 briefly (the low light performance was unacceptable for what I do), but the Sennheiser worked great, far better than the included mic. Almost too good, as I wouldn't mind a bit more ambient sound sometimes.

I also switched to using the Sony HVL-LBP on-cam LED light, after years of using a dimmable Frezzi with soft box and battery belt. Love the new light, the ability to use batteries I've already got, and no more lower back pain. I keep it on all the time now and use it for fill outdoors when I never would have in the past.

And I'm always mounted on a monopod (Bogen/Manfrotto 681B, to be exact), or the "poor man's Steadicam," as I call it. With no head, just mounted on a quick release plate for easy on/off. I found the ability to pan/tilt on a monopod more trouble than it was worth, and have become adept at all the usual moves without. It's great for crane shots, too.

HVX200 - sold. Low light was an issue, and the LCD not good enough.
V1U - I wanted to love that camera, so close in design to my beloved PD150 as it is, but after one night shoot with limited light -- sold.
The XDCam EX? Hoping the third time is the charm.

Gosh Michael,

Your history reads a lot like mine, except I use the consumer versions of your cameras with attached audio mixers to save me money.

Have used monopods with quick releases since I started 12 years ago, and dislike my FX 7 for it's low light. Now use an FX 1 (much better camera) while I wait for the EX.

Cheers Vaughan

www.vwvideo.com.au

BTW I went to the EX demo today - the reason that only SP mode can go to a hard disk is that is all the F/W connection will output: HDV @ 25Mb/s. It is not used for FAM mode - they have a USB port for that.

John,
So what do you think of the EX? How was the show?

Steven - the EX will be the right answer for a lot of people out there. I think the workflow to backup on BluRay data is solid and reliable, and I can imagine things like automated backup software (from the cards) appearing pretty quickly for longer form producers. The demo itself was informative but dry and poorly set up for display (we were in a lit theatre without native 1080P display facilities), but the Sony guys were very accomodating and more than prepared to answer questions.

Technically I think Sony have kicked a lot of goals here- the parallel processing from the chips, the uncompressed HD-SDI I/O, the better LCD, focus assist which pixel remaps the LCD to the camera chip resolution, exposure features, express card interface, multi-format capability etc. BTW I read in another thread that the camera will only do specific frame rates - this is not true. It will work in one frame increments to the maximum speed for the resolution in 1080i (1-60) and 1080P(1-30) mode. I'm not sure about 720P.

For people who are used to shooting on these larger format handycams, the ergonomics of riding focus and adjusting iris without some kind of shoulder brace is going to be a challenge, but I'd rather have that challenge than say the Z1's focus ring.

The lens is the best I've seen in a handycam, and for a similar ENG lens you would probably be up for at least 60 -70% of the cost of the camera alone. My wide angle (13x) for the GY-HD101E cost approx $US7K - it's better than the glass on the Sony and also a touch wider but it's marginal. The bokeh was actually quite pleasing.

The pricepoint seems very good, but I'm sure some will hesitate at the lack of an SD format, the new wrapper which most NLE's are supporting by re-wrapping to MXF (on ya Sony - develop a professional wrapper for 3 years with widespread NLE support and then drop it in favour of an unsupported consumer format).

The demo footage looked pretty damn good, but as with all long GOP encoding, I could see the odd MPEG artifact on the 1920x1080P LCD they had. One thing to remember though is this was playing of one of the professional BD players that sony has, so everything would have been re-wrapped to 1440x1080 mxf , so the screen would be doing some processing of the signal, rather than pixel for pixel display.

I'm sure this camera will sell and may even encourage a lot of higher end users to migrate to Sony's XDCAM-HD format. A total XD-CAM workflow now seems to fit a multitude of budgets. Bottom line is you can't beat those 3 x 1/2" CMOS sensors, at that pricepoint. It's a no brainer for anybody who produces in HD that requires a prosumer-level handycam. Will I buy one? hmmm; I really need ENG with SD capability so I'll probably go XD-CAM HD for my next cam, but it's going to hurt the wallet a whole lot more.

Thanks for the great info John.

The only concern I have is probably the MPEG artifacts you mentioned. Based on what I'm hearing, the 35Mbit footage has virtually no artifacts. I imagine the BD stuff might of been through the mill..Although, one would think that the demo stuff should of been at its best.

I'm not sure I'm tracking you on this point.

When I spoke with the XDCAM people at the Pro Products show today they indicated that the format was the same as XDCAM HD - just on SxS.

Now, maybe I asked the wrong questions, or didn't understand you. Could you clarify? What is this new unsupported consumer format you mention?

Just to make sure: you are talking about the standard lens that came with the JVC HD100 (Th16x5.5BRMU)? You review this lens is better than the glass on the Sony EX?


Kind regards,
Erwin

No, that lens is a 16x lens. It is available as a replacement part from JVC for $2300USD.

I bet he's talking about the th13x3.5brmu, which lists around $6500 USD without a camera.

So, he's saying that a lens that sells for about the same as the EX is "marginally" better than the lens on the EX. Quite a compliment actually.

I bet that the lens optics aren't as good by a long shot- but a camera with a fixed lens like this has a huge advantage, the engineers can set up the entire camera to support that specific lens. So, it wouldn't surprise me if there was correction for any lens flaws as part of the design of the imager block, and even in the electronics like the HPX500's CAC feature.

OK- to answer myself...

Sony isn't using .mxf, they are instead using .mp4

I'd hardly call .mp4 an unsupported format though.

Overall I think this is a good idea, but I agree it can cause issues with a XDCAM workflow.

According to the B&H specs the Rode NTG-1 and 2 mics are fatter than the Sonys: .87" versus .78" for Sony ECM-674.

On my Sony HVR-A1U the Mic mount comes with a little rubber gasket, maybe the EX will include one as well.

On the topic of accessories: does anyone have any intel on the first places to have SxS cards in stock? I have a camera on order at B&H but they don't have the cards set-up for pre-order yet, and I am going to need a second card on day one.

Please don't post a list of retailers in response to this, as they may not be DVInfo sponsors. The link below has an email addy at the very end, if anyone reading would care to send me some suggestions :)

THinking of mics, I was looking for ones to match up with the EX1.

I was considering the Sony ECM-680S for general on camera use, but was wondering if you guys had some input on this matter.

I also need a pair of mics for use via wired XLR on boom poles, and I am considering a wireless setup as well. (Yes I am replacing just about everything in my studio this year.)

Matte-box for EX
 

Has anyone looked at what's involved in transferring matte-boxes made for the Z1 to the EX? I've got a Chrosziel with the rail mounting designed for the Z1/FX1 and I'm betting that the EX will need something a bit different. I didn't measure up the camera in the brief time I had to look at other things. Anyone have real information? Maybe a Chrosziel mounting kit? Couldn't find anything on various websites. Obviously adapters can be made, if necessary.