Avid, G5 and EX1 footage at DVinfo.net

Joachim Hoge · November 11th, 2007, 04:37 PM

Since the clip browser only work on Intel Macs, how will a Avid on G5 Mac handle them?

How can you view clips on a G5? Do you view them directly in Avid?

The reason I´m asking is that a lot of my clients are still running G5´s and I had hoped I could just ask them to download the free viewer to look at footage I would hand over to them

Jiri Bakala · November 11th, 2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joachim Hoge

Since the clip browser only work on Intel Macs, how will a Avid on G5 Mac handle them?

It works only on Intel Macs? Does it say somewhere? Why?

Joachim Hoge · November 12th, 2007, 01:34 AM

I can´t remember where it says, I think it´s on Sony´s web site when at the download page

Craig Seeman · November 12th, 2007, 08:37 AM

The Clip Browser manual says Intel Mac as part of it's specs.

David Parks · November 12th, 2007, 10:26 AM

Avid test on MP@HL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

25p; MPEG2HD35_1920_1080_MP@HL The first clip!!!

Avid Liquid: Tried importing the unconverted MP4 in. It looked like the app saw it as mp4 but on import it locked up on 3 tries. So, using the clip browser I rewrapped to MXF. So fast I thought that it screwed up. Then it imported very quicky. Was able to setup a 1080p/25 timeline and it dropped right with no problems. So, Liquid works fine after MXF rewrap and the import took less than 5 seconds.

Avid Xpress Pro: Tried importing the MXF clip into a 1080p/25 project. It saw the clip, and looked like it imported as DNXHD 120. But all I got was a green screen on playback.

I tried converting using MPEGstreamclip and versdion 1.1 would not recocgnize the mp4, So I downloaded the new beta Win version and it saw the mp4 but said it had no video or audio. So with Xpress/Media Composer, you would have to find a way to convert to a QT DNXHD.

I'll keep playing with a possible conversion routine. But, I can confirm Avid Liquid works great with MXF at the MPEG codec..

Joachim Hoge · November 12th, 2007, 01:06 PM

Thanks David
I´m specialy concerend about one project were the camera could be perfect, but I´m not sure if the client use Liquid or Express. I have a feeling it´s express and maybe they finish on Liquid.

Steve Mullen · November 12th, 2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Parks

Avid test on MP@HL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

25p; MPEG2HD35_1920_1080_MP@HL The first clip!!!

Avid Xpress Pro: Tried importing the MXF clip into a 1080p/25 project. It saw the clip, and looked like it imported as DNXHD 120. But all I got was a green screen on playback.

i can confirm the same with Media Composer on the Mac. In this case, any attempt to actually display 1920x1080 caused a crash.

We are seeing the differences between NLEs that were designed -- to meet MPEG-2 specs (Liquid) and NLEs that have MPEG-2 grafted on that only meet the specs of camcorders that were shipping 6- to 12-months before support was added. So Avid and FCP support HDV as it was in the first year or so. Not how it is today. I fully expect no support for the EX untill after NAB.

I have a FullHD MPEG-2 camcorder that is supported perfectly by all but Apple, Adobe, and Avid. FCP, for example, turns off RT as soon as the frame size goes to 1920x1080. (Of course, Apple always provides immediate support for anything Panasonic ships.)

Joachim Hoge · November 12th, 2007, 03:51 PM

Thanks Steve.
I ahve to decide by tomorrow if I want to keep my pre-ordered EX1 or let it pass.
I usually hand over footage to editors and don´t do much editing myself.
I started shooting a documentary on a H1 and was hoping to be able to "switch" over to the EX1 as we have only shot 2 days (out of 25), but I´m hessitating now.
We had to use small cameras, hence th H1, but the lens is driving me crazy (not the images, but the handeling) and I thought the EX1 would fit the bill perfectly. I´m not so sure anymore. Too early days I think
I´m considering getting the old 16* Manual lens and use that instead.

Paul Ramsbottom · November 12th, 2007, 05:49 PM

Given the attention this camera is getting I suspect you might see broad NLE compatibility quite quickly. The problem is (as anyone who is in big-league software/hardware development will tell you) is that you cannot finish development and start a full qualification-pass until the 3rd-party product you want to be compatible with, is truly shipping.

Anything before that (up to and including the last couple of hours before ship) is legally considered 'pre-release'. Companies can and do delay shipment at the 11th hour because a completely unexpected flaw is caught at the very last moment, it happens all the time. There are a whole bunch of reasons why this is so closely managed, not leastly revenue and cost accounting, which has to be defined very carefully (because of Sarbox and alike) and I've actually seen manufacturing facilities where they had a yellow 'ship-line' painted across the final warehouse floor. Only when merchandize is forklifted across this line and onto the trucks going to retail, does the legal/accounting definition of 'shipped' begin.

Actually you can do it of course but it carries a risk, and the bigger you are, the bigger the legal ramifications of saying you 'work' but finding out you actually don't because you QAed against something that was only 99.99% there. I expect many small guys wing it all the time and obviously Sony can do things internally with Vegas that partners cannot (not necessarily because they get access to GM hardware quicker but rather, I expect, because they've got no-one but themselves to point the 'you told us you were done' finger at (and no-one to blame if they are simply just slow).

Everyone says "but surely company XYZ must have given you a fully finished model weeks ago?" but the reality is that it doesn't happen like that. You can get most of of the work done with a pre-release model for sure but no-one with a half decent attorney will declare GM / claim full compatibility until they have their hands on a model that is unequivocably the same as you would get if you walked into a retailer and bought one off the shelf.

Manufacturing/retail cycles being tight as they are, I expect all those beasts are currently in Sony's final QC inspection.

Jiri Bakala · November 12th, 2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joachim Hoge

Thanks Steve.
I ahve to decide by tomorrow if I want to keep my pre-ordered EX1 or let it pass.
I usually hand over footage to editors and don´t do much editing myself.
I started shooting a documentary on a H1 and was hoping to be able to "switch" over to the EX1 as we have only shot 2 days (out of 25), but I´m hessitating now.
We had to use small cameras, hence th H1, but the lens is driving me crazy (not the images, but the handeling) and I thought the EX1 would fit the bill perfectly. I´m not so sure anymore. Too early days I think
I´m considering getting the old 16* Manual lens and use that instead.

Why don't you take the EX1 anyway but shoot for now in the HDV mode? You would still reap the benefits of the 1/2" CMOS chips, nice lens, file-based acquisition but you would remain compatible with the NLEs and other HDV camcorders.

Am I correct here?

Paul Ramsbottom · November 12th, 2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala

Am I correct here?

Providing the HDV-compatible mode is precisely that.

It's 1080x1440 XDCAM not 1080x1440 HDV.

Probably fine but I'd like to see it myself and do a Firewire capture first.

Don't "ASS of U and ME" as a very irritating old boss of mine used to constantly say :)

Correction, the Firewire port on the camera is even marked 'HDV' but I'd still like to see FCP device detect and do a HDV capture.

Steven Thomas · November 12th, 2007, 07:30 PM

Directly from Sony's brochure:

"SP mode supports
1440 x 1080 resolution at 25 Mb/s, which provides compatibility
with HDV 1080i products. Footage recorded in SP mode can be
seamlessly integrated into HDV-compatible editing systems by
connecting the camcorder via the i.LINK™* (HDV)
interface. It can also be recorded on XDCAM HD’s optical
disc through the use of the supplied Clip Browser software."

David Parks · November 13th, 2007, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ramsbottom

Providing the HDV-compatible mode is precisely that.

It's 1080x1440 XDCAM not 1080x1440 HDV.

Yes and no. Out of the HDV port provides a m2t while going to the card it is mp4. Current XDCAM is MXF which is the reason for the clip browser rewrap. So out of the port m2t. To card mp4, but you can rewrap to MXF then import. So if your your edit program supports HDV2 and the framerate that your shooting (24, 30, or 60) you will be able to edit the SP mode.

The clip test I did was at 1920x1080 HQ at 35mbit. So that is main profile but a different bit rate and rez.

I'm pretty sure that the brochure said the FCP would require a downloadable plug in from Sony(probably for the HQ mode). Avid Liquid and from what I can tell from these boards Adobe cs3 work. I also read the most recent version of Edius works.

November 11th, 2007, 04:37 PM	#1
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	Avid, G5 and EX1 footage Since the clip browser only work on Intel Macs, how will a Avid on G5 Mac handle them? How can you view clips on a G5? Do you view them directly in Avid? The reason I´m asking is that a lot of my clients are still running G5´s and I had hoped I could just ask them to download the free viewer to look at footage I would hand over to them

November 12th, 2007, 10:26 AM	#5
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Fyi Avid test on MP@HL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25p; MPEG2HD35_1920_1080_MP@HL The first clip!!! Avid Liquid: Tried importing the unconverted MP4 in. It looked like the app saw it as mp4 but on import it locked up on 3 tries. So, using the clip browser I rewrapped to MXF. So fast I thought that it screwed up. Then it imported very quicky. Was able to setup a 1080p/25 timeline and it dropped right with no problems. So, Liquid works fine after MXF rewrap and the import took less than 5 seconds. Avid Xpress Pro: Tried importing the MXF clip into a 1080p/25 project. It saw the clip, and looked like it imported as DNXHD 120. But all I got was a green screen on playback. I tried converting using MPEGstreamclip and versdion 1.1 would not recocgnize the mp4, So I downloaded the new beta Win version and it saw the mp4 but said it had no video or audio. So with Xpress/Media Composer, you would have to find a way to convert to a QT DNXHD. I'll keep playing with a possible conversion routine. But, I can confirm Avid Liquid works great with MXF at the MPEG codec.. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

November 12th, 2007, 05:49 PM	#9
Paul Ramsbottom Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 85	Given the attention this camera is getting I suspect you might see broad NLE compatibility quite quickly. The problem is (as anyone who is in big-league software/hardware development will tell you) is that you cannot finish development and start a full qualification-pass until the 3rd-party product you want to be compatible with, is truly shipping. Anything before that (up to and including the last couple of hours before ship) is legally considered 'pre-release'. Companies can and do delay shipment at the 11th hour because a completely unexpected flaw is caught at the very last moment, it happens all the time. There are a whole bunch of reasons why this is so closely managed, not leastly revenue and cost accounting, which has to be defined very carefully (because of Sarbox and alike) and I've actually seen manufacturing facilities where they had a yellow 'ship-line' painted across the final warehouse floor. Only when merchandize is forklifted across this line and onto the trucks going to retail, does the legal/accounting definition of 'shipped' begin. Actually you can do it of course but it carries a risk, and the bigger you are, the bigger the legal ramifications of saying you 'work' but finding out you actually don't because you QAed against something that was only 99.99% there. I expect many small guys wing it all the time and obviously Sony can do things internally with Vegas that partners cannot (not necessarily because they get access to GM hardware quicker but rather, I expect, because they've got no-one but themselves to point the 'you told us you were done' finger at (and no-one to blame if they are simply just slow). Everyone says "but surely company XYZ must have given you a fully finished model weeks ago?" but the reality is that it doesn't happen like that. You can get most of of the work done with a pre-release model for sure but no-one with a half decent attorney will declare GM / claim full compatibility until they have their hands on a model that is unequivocably the same as you would get if you walked into a retailer and bought one off the shelf. Manufacturing/retail cycles being tight as they are, I expect all those beasts are currently in Sony's final QC inspection. Last edited by Paul Ramsbottom; November 13th, 2007 at 03:55 PM.

November 12th, 2007, 01:34 AM	#3
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	I can´t remember where it says, I think it´s on Sony´s web site when at the download page

November 12th, 2007, 08:37 AM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	The Clip Browser manual says Intel Mac as part of it's specs.

November 12th, 2007, 01:06 PM	#6
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	Thanks David I´m specialy concerend about one project were the camera could be perfect, but I´m not sure if the client use Liquid or Express. I have a feeling it´s express and maybe they finish on Liquid.

November 12th, 2007, 03:51 PM	#8
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	Thanks Steve. I ahve to decide by tomorrow if I want to keep my pre-ordered EX1 or let it pass. I usually hand over footage to editors and don´t do much editing myself. I started shooting a documentary on a H1 and was hoping to be able to "switch" over to the EX1 as we have only shot 2 days (out of 25), but I´m hessitating now. We had to use small cameras, hence th H1, but the lens is driving me crazy (not the images, but the handeling) and I thought the EX1 would fit the bill perfectly. I´m not so sure anymore. Too early days I think I´m considering getting the old 16* Manual lens and use that instead.

November 12th, 2007, 07:30 PM	#12
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Directly from Sony's brochure: "SP mode supports 1440 x 1080 resolution at 25 Mb/s, which provides compatibility with HDV 1080i products. Footage recorded in SP mode can be seamlessly integrated into HDV-compatible editing systems by connecting the camcorder via the i.LINK™* (HDV) interface. It can also be recorded on XDCAM HD’s optical disc through the use of the supplied Clip Browser software."