EX1 footage thread - keep it coming!

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 04:18 PM

Thank you Andreas for going out of your way and helping us understand the EX1 and any possible issues.

If you're up for it, here's a suggestion on capturing this data:

Please record while running the tests

1. Set the camera for manual operation on a tripod with the Aperture wide open, OIS on.

2. Adjust the room lighting and ND filters to get a fairly bright exposure, but not blowing out the highlights.

3. Hook up an external monitor and start by setting the focal length to 10mm. While keeping the camera stationary, carefully look for vignetting.
Note, based on what we've seen, It may show in the top left corner first.

4. Slowly zoom between 10mm through 25mm and look for the slightest problem.

5. If you see a problem, remember at what focal length the problem is viewed. Now shut off the OIS and determine if the problem still exists.

6. Now, turn back on OIS. Leave the camera's focal point set to where you think you may see the problem. Next pan the camera left to right at a moderate speed. Try this at several different focal point locations between 10mm and 25mm.

7. Ignore everything I've written and perform your own test. LOL

.

Andreas Johansson · November 25th, 2007, 04:41 PM

Would it work whit a green screen wall?

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 04:52 PM

It might be hard to see with the green screen, but you could try.
Also, when panning, you should not not have to pan much.
Just enough to make the OIS system have to work.

Paul Joy · November 25th, 2007, 04:53 PM

Certainly with the camera I had the Iris didn't seem to play any part in the problem, other than to make it easy to see as the image became brighter. On mine the worst effect was between 10mm and 25mm.

I would be happy with my camera if it were the same as Andreas' 720p clip, I can't see any problems there at all.

Paul.

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 05:07 PM

I hear you. It does not appear to have the normal vignetting issue. There has been some discussion about when the camera is jerked around.

I agree, I believe Andreas's camera is fine.
Chris, Barlow still thinks that the SDI captures are a tad softer than the internal. Do you concur?
He agrees it does not make sense, but he's seeing something.

Can you post two identical frames, one XDCAM, the other SDI?

Simon Wyndham · November 25th, 2007, 06:22 PM

I can't be arsed to read this thread. I have an EX here in front of me. Tell me what to do to solve whatever problem and I'll do it. :)

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 06:33 PM

Thanks a million Simon!

Actually, there's been some talk that the SDI out frames appears softer (or slightly blurred) compared to the internal XDCAM capture. We realize that this does not make sense, but if you would not mind providing a comparison between an SDI vs XDCAM captured frame?

Also, there's been some discussion regarding possible vignetting oddly happening between 10mm-25mm range. It's also been thought that the OIS under rapid camera movement may be aggrivating the condtion.

We know for sure one user has vignetting in this range. In his case, it's very obvious and he has returned his camera for exchange.

Any help would be appreciated.

Simon Wyndham · November 25th, 2007, 06:45 PM

I'll give it a look in the morning.

Can't understand it though. If it's vignetting at 10, it should be vignetting even more at 5.8. I can understand if the OIS is contributing though. But what are the results on the problem camera at 5.8?

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 06:49 PM

Well...
We didn't say it makes sense :), but Paul Joy sure proved it happens!
He provided a video of a white wall as he started wide and slowly ramped to full zoom. Oddly enough, at full wide it was not there!
Based on his video, it sure looks like he's right. he said the range was 10-25mm.
Very strange indeed.

Here's paul's small video clip showing his issue:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...2&d=1195761898

Chris Forbes · November 25th, 2007, 11:41 PM

One thing that logic tells us is that the camera is not the only fail point in the chain from Camera to SDI Capture to Critical evaluation.

But in order for us to say "this camera is doing this" we would have to, by process of elimination, verify:

the HDSDI connector, the first BNC cable, the barrel joining the two BNC cables to each other, the Second BNC cable, the capture card, the HDSDI connector on the capture card, the Sheer video codec that he was recoding in, the raid that he was capturing with, and the monitor that he was viewing the clips with.

He showed me what he saw on the clips. What he saw as softness I saw as motion blur due to the 24p 48 speed shutter. Either way more testing would have to take place before anything could be said one way or the other.

But I will say for my part I am completely happy with this camera.

Steven Thomas · November 26th, 2007, 08:02 AM

I hear you Chris.
That's why actual SDI vs internal frame grabs would solve this issue.

Your are right about all the other possibilities. Hopefully Simon will be able to "shed some light".

Barlow Elton · November 26th, 2007, 03:16 PM

Clips were taken down. Apparently they're not working right for others.

Steven Thomas · November 26th, 2007, 04:43 PM

Thanks Barlow.
I'm going to do some testing with detail on and off this Thursday.

It's possible it's doing something with NR with the detail parameter off.

Hey, This dang PC vs MAC is killing me.
I can't get your files to work in QT.
I downloaded the free SheerVideo reader codec for QT for Windows.

Barlow Elton · November 27th, 2007, 02:16 AM

Hmm, wonder what the problem is? It should work but I've never tried Sheer on a Windows system. ProRes should work for FCP6 users.

I've added a 10bit uncompressed QT frame. That should be available on Windows.

Steven Thomas · November 27th, 2007, 08:01 AM

Thanks Barlow, that frame also comes up black. I'm not sure what's up.

November 25th, 2007, 04:53 PM	#49
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	Certainly with the camera I had the Iris didn't seem to play any part in the problem, other than to make it easy to see as the image became brighter. On mine the worst effect was between 10mm and 25mm. I would be happy with my camera if it were the same as Andreas' 720p clip, I can't see any problems there at all. Paul. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk

November 26th, 2007, 03:16 PM	#57
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Clips were taken down. Apparently they're not working right for others. Last edited by Barlow Elton; November 27th, 2007 at 02:30 PM.

November 27th, 2007, 02:16 AM	#59
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Hmm, wonder what the problem is? It should work but I've never tried Sheer on a Windows system. ProRes should work for FCP6 users. I've added a 10bit uncompressed QT frame. That should be available on Windows. Last edited by Barlow Elton; November 27th, 2007 at 02:31 PM.

November 25th, 2007, 04:18 PM	#46
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Thank you Andreas for going out of your way and helping us understand the EX1 and any possible issues. If you're up for it, here's a suggestion on capturing this data: Please record while running the tests 1. Set the camera for manual operation on a tripod with the Aperture wide open, OIS on. 2. Adjust the room lighting and ND filters to get a fairly bright exposure, but not blowing out the highlights. 3. Hook up an external monitor and start by setting the focal length to 10mm. While keeping the camera stationary, carefully look for vignetting. Note, based on what we've seen, It may show in the top left corner first. 4. Slowly zoom between 10mm through 25mm and look for the slightest problem. 5. If you see a problem, remember at what focal length the problem is viewed. Now shut off the OIS and determine if the problem still exists. 6. Now, turn back on OIS. Leave the camera's focal point set to where you think you may see the problem. Next pan the camera left to right at a moderate speed. Try this at several different focal point locations between 10mm and 25mm. 7. Ignore everything I've written and perform your own test. LOL .

November 25th, 2007, 04:41 PM	#47
Andreas Johansson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 93	Would it work whit a green screen wall?

November 25th, 2007, 04:52 PM	#48
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	It might be hard to see with the green screen, but you could try. Also, when panning, you should not not have to pan much. Just enough to make the OIS system have to work.

November 25th, 2007, 05:07 PM	#50
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	I hear you. It does not appear to have the normal vignetting issue. There has been some discussion about when the camera is jerked around. I agree, I believe Andreas's camera is fine. Chris, Barlow still thinks that the SDI captures are a tad softer than the internal. Do you concur? He agrees it does not make sense, but he's seeing something. Can you post two identical frames, one XDCAM, the other SDI?

November 25th, 2007, 06:22 PM	#51
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	I can't be arsed to read this thread. I have an EX here in front of me. Tell me what to do to solve whatever problem and I'll do it. :)

November 25th, 2007, 06:33 PM	#52
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Thanks a million Simon! Actually, there's been some talk that the SDI out frames appears softer (or slightly blurred) compared to the internal XDCAM capture. We realize that this does not make sense, but if you would not mind providing a comparison between an SDI vs XDCAM captured frame? Also, there's been some discussion regarding possible vignetting oddly happening between 10mm-25mm range. It's also been thought that the OIS under rapid camera movement may be aggrivating the condtion. We know for sure one user has vignetting in this range. In his case, it's very obvious and he has returned his camera for exchange. Any help would be appreciated.

November 25th, 2007, 06:45 PM	#53
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	I'll give it a look in the morning. Can't understand it though. If it's vignetting at 10, it should be vignetting even more at 5.8. I can understand if the OIS is contributing though. But what are the results on the problem camera at 5.8?

November 25th, 2007, 06:49 PM	#54
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Well... We didn't say it makes sense :), but Paul Joy sure proved it happens! He provided a video of a white wall as he started wide and slowly ramped to full zoom. Oddly enough, at full wide it was not there! Based on his video, it sure looks like he's right. he said the range was 10-25mm. Very strange indeed. Here's paul's small video clip showing his issue: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...2&d=1195761898

November 25th, 2007, 11:41 PM	#55
Chris Forbes Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Salt Lake City, Ut Posts: 155	One thing that logic tells us is that the camera is not the only fail point in the chain from Camera to SDI Capture to Critical evaluation. But in order for us to say "this camera is doing this" we would have to, by process of elimination, verify: the HDSDI connector, the first BNC cable, the barrel joining the two BNC cables to each other, the Second BNC cable, the capture card, the HDSDI connector on the capture card, the Sheer video codec that he was recoding in, the raid that he was capturing with, and the monitor that he was viewing the clips with. He showed me what he saw on the clips. What he saw as softness I saw as motion blur due to the 24p 48 speed shutter. Either way more testing would have to take place before anything could be said one way or the other. But I will say for my part I am completely happy with this camera.

November 26th, 2007, 08:02 AM	#56
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	I hear you Chris. That's why actual SDI vs internal frame grabs would solve this issue. Your are right about all the other possibilities. Hopefully Simon will be able to "shed some light".

November 26th, 2007, 04:43 PM	#58
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Thanks Barlow. I'm going to do some testing with detail on and off this Thursday. It's possible it's doing something with NR with the detail parameter off. Hey, This dang PC vs MAC is killing me. I can't get your files to work in QT. I downloaded the free SheerVideo reader codec for QT for Windows.

November 27th, 2007, 08:01 AM	#60
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Thanks Barlow, that frame also comes up black. I'm not sure what's up.