Anyone seeing any rolling shutter issues?

Steven Thomas · December 4th, 2007, 01:44 PM

If this is such a problem, how was Jody Eldred ever able to get decent footage from those planes at 10Gs?

You're right it's important to share information, but at the same time, also put it in respect to actual use.

Leonard Levy · December 4th, 2007, 02:08 PM

Do you see these CMOS shutter problems while shooting or only when looking at footage afterwards?

Greg Boston · December 4th, 2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

If this is such a problem, how was Jody Eldred ever able to get decent footage from those planes at 10Gs?

You're right it's important share information, but at the same time, also put it in respect to actual use.

G force alone won't be enough to induce wobble. You can pull 10Gs just by doing a straight up climb if your aircraft is capable. The 10G factor would kill a tape based camera as the the inertia would unspool the heads and cause drop outs. That's what Jody is attempting to show with that footage. The extreme conditions and g forces that the camera can endure without missing a beat.

-gb-

Steven Thomas · December 4th, 2007, 02:31 PM

True, but if you watch the footage she sure takes some quick spins! that's for sure!

Ali Husain · December 4th, 2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

True, but if you watch the footage she sure takes some quick spins! that's for sure!

:)

seriously though, there's no way a non-crashing aircraft like that can accelerate the ex1 image as quickly as you can be rotating it in your hand.

Nick Wilson · December 4th, 2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ali Husain

:)

seriously though, there's no way a non-crashing aircraft like that can accelerate the ex1 image as quickly as you can be rotating it in your hand.

If you are looking for wobble, it is not sustained acceleration but higher frequency vibration that will induce it. The speed and/or direction of the camera has to change at least once during the time the chips are being read. The Extra(?) with a large engine at high power and large control inputs will certainly not be free of vibration, but I was more impressed with the air to air footage from the back of the C130. No fisheye lens, and no sign of wobble.

Nick

Steven Thomas · December 4th, 2007, 04:26 PM

Honestly, I can't imagine those rides are that smooth. Very nice.

Greg Boston · December 4th, 2007, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Honestly, I can't imagine those rides are that smooth. Very nice.

Having been in a Pitts S2-A some years back as a passenger, I can say that it's smoother than a roller coaster. Just pure G-forces. The parachute on your back makes you sit somewhat more upright and the 5 point harness straps you down so well that you really become one with the aircraft and don't get thrown around like at your local amusement park.

-gb-

Alexander Ibrahim · December 4th, 2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonard Levy

People have reported bending verticals on pans but only at such a high speed pan that it wouldn't concern most people. No one has seen it on traffic or ordinary images so far as I have read.

That may have started with me. I did note the "wobble" issue with an EX1.

Of course in order to create the effect I had to whip pan the camera back and forth so hard and fast that my wrist eventually made an audible crack that drew attention on the GV Expo show floor.

Before some wisecracker says anything, I was a pro hockey player (very minor league) and coach before I started my video/film career.

Alexander Ibrahim · December 4th, 2007, 05:04 PM

I just watched some of the vids posted by users here.

Those results are very different from what my tests revealed on the camera.

Here is the thing... I was testing and monitoring live via SDI. I was not able to test footage on the SxS cards.

That means that either:
1)I had a special super spec EX1
2)The problem is in the XDCAM codec (can't see why that would happen)
3)Some people have bad EX1s
4)I've lost my damn mind and have no clue what I am talking about.

All of these possibilities are worrisome to me, especially number 4.

I hope to test the EX1 again for an extended period this weekend, and should receive mine shortly thereafter.

Could we get more tests done for this on different cameras?

Steven Thomas · December 4th, 2007, 05:54 PM

Alexander,
After seeing that utube video, last night I ran up and checked mine out.

Maybe I was not panning hard enough, but I tried it at 1080 24P and 720 60P and it looked OK to me. I saw nothing that was as bad as these examples.

I trust Paul's sample, I'm just not sure why I did not have as much error.
The utube is such poor quality I don't know what to expect from it.

I can see some on mine, but I can surely live with it, especially since I never plan on capturing rapid pan footage.

We captured some soccer stuff where we made a lot of camera moves and it looks great.

December 4th, 2007, 05:04 PM	#55
Alexander Ibrahim Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Washington D.C. Metro Area Posts: 384	I just watched some of the vids posted by users here. Those results are very different from what my tests revealed on the camera. Here is the thing... I was testing and monitoring live via SDI. I was not able to test footage on the SxS cards. That means that either: 1)I had a special super spec EX1 2)The problem is in the XDCAM codec (can't see why that would happen) 3)Some people have bad EX1s 4)I've lost my damn mind and have no clue what I am talking about. All of these possibilities are worrisome to me, especially number 4. I hope to test the EX1 again for an extended period this weekend, and should receive mine shortly thereafter. Could we get more tests done for this on different cameras? __________________ Alexander Ibrahim http://www.alexanderibrahim.net

December 4th, 2007, 01:44 PM	#46
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	If this is such a problem, how was Jody Eldred ever able to get decent footage from those planes at 10Gs? You're right it's important to share information, but at the same time, also put it in respect to actual use.

December 4th, 2007, 02:08 PM	#47
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Do you see these CMOS shutter problems while shooting or only when looking at footage afterwards?

December 4th, 2007, 02:31 PM	#49
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	True, but if you watch the footage she sure takes some quick spins! that's for sure!

December 4th, 2007, 04:26 PM	#52
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Honestly, I can't imagine those rides are that smooth. Very nice.

December 4th, 2007, 05:54 PM	#56
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Alexander, After seeing that utube video, last night I ran up and checked mine out. Maybe I was not panning hard enough, but I tried it at 1080 24P and 720 60P and it looked OK to me. I saw nothing that was as bad as these examples. I trust Paul's sample, I'm just not sure why I did not have as much error. The utube is such poor quality I don't know what to expect from it. I can see some on mine, but I can surely live with it, especially since I never plan on capturing rapid pan footage. We captured some soccer stuff where we made a lot of camera moves and it looks great.