Opinions on V1U to PMW-EX1 (for sports)
 

I currently use a V1U and a 1.5x extender.

I am thinking about getting an EX1. The only extender I can find is the to-be-released 1.6x extender from Schneider.

Range is important to me - I shoot surfing so can't get closer to my subject... but image quality is paramount and slow motion is also a priority. From what I understand the EX1 has better image quality and will produce better slo-mo but its zoom is shorter (12x) compared to the v1u (20x).

I am leaning towards the EX1 due to the better image quality.

What do you think?

I have just checked up on the zoom length of the EX1 and its only 12x - thats pretty short - shame!

The zoom on the EX1 is 14x, not 12, so the extender you're considering will get you even closer to your surfers.

I could write a couple of paragraphs as to why the EX1 will be better than the V1U for your shooting needs. Probably the biggest advantage will be the increased exposure latitude of the EX1, meaning there will be more detail in the highlights and the shadows, which is a huge plus when working outside with large contrast differences.

- Don

What actually matters is the max. telephoto focal length. the zoom "ratio" (10x or 12x or whatever) does not indicate, directly, any maximum telephoto focal length.

By memory (you can look up the stats to check) the EX1 max. wide is 31.4mm so with a 14x zoom, that gives about a 440mm max.tele.
The V1 is 37.4mm max wide and a 20x zoom gives about 748mm max. tele.

So basically the V1 has a tele about 1.7x more than the EX1. So yes, if you want an image of comparable size then you will need to get a tele attachment for the EX1.
- It would not surprise me greatly, though, that if you just did a digital crop in your editing package of EX1 footage, that may well give you what you need, while retaining sufficient quality to serve your purposes. Something to experiment with perhaps.

Yes this is something I read about but didn't consider enough. Breaking waves (white water) but dark water in sunlight is a pretty wide exposure range!!

Yes of course - its not the zoom but the max focal length so I checked up (although i didn't need to as you a have pretty good memory!!):

EX1: 439mm V1U: 748mm (equiv to 35mm film)

Although most of my work will be ending up on normal dvds (not HD). I wonder how much imagine quality I will loose by cropping?
Really I would like a 2x not just a 1.6x extender.

About the EX1 and add on lenses (wide or tele). From what I read they need contacts to tell the cam they are there (to deal with CA etc)? Is not possible to use a screw on lens and set the amount of OIS manually in the menus? I beleive Schiender make a nice 2x screw on extender. The EX1 has a 77mm thread on the frount of it, doesn't it??

You can get a Letus Extreme and this lens ;)
H

Herm's got a point. You could always buy a 35mm adapter like the Letus Extreme or Brevis Flip, and then you could attach any camera lens to it that you own. Then you could get any lens that would fit your purposes, AND, you get to use that lens with your DSLR camera as well. Two birds with one stone.

That sounds like a long camera with all of the adaptors and tele lenses.

The use of a long lens for video without a servo motor might be tricky as well.

yep! Nice idea but with no autofocus, in sports, it's a non-starter.

I put a 200-400mm lens on the adapter and discovered significant vignette and chromatic aberration issues, together with any bump and wobble is easily transferred through the rig, as it is long and heavy and much of the weight extends away from the pivot point on the tripod. Start thinking about getting a solid head. At 400mm, I was only achieving the same range as the camera lens. I strongly recommend testing/renting before anyone entertains the idea of using extremely long lenses with 35mm lenses adapters. btw, I understand that Herminio was kidding.

That's one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time! Hilarious. Can you guys imaging the EX1 with a Letus and that Lens?! That would be one funky looking setup.

so why go to the ex1, choose the Z7 that has removable lense or a XL1H that has very nice 1440 sensor.

Christopher, are the aberrations so bad they're unusable? I've had my heart set on this camera and only been waiting for the first run kinks to be over before buying one. I don't have the ability to test one, any chance you could post some footage of stuff you've had problems with? My primary need for this camera would be for doing movie shorts but I also do alot of wildlife videography and it sounds like the Ex1 is just simply not designed for that. . . but I thought I might at least be able to cheat a little.

The main reason to consider the EX1 over the V1U is the higher bitrate of the codec on the EX1.

The V1U is a great camera, I have one, but I can tell you that its very easy to 'break' the codec with a any high rate of change in the subject matter. Moving water is a torture test for HDV. If you are going to maximum image quality then you have no choice but to buy an EX1 or other higher bitrate camera. None of the HDV cameras will give you the clean results you most likely want regardless of any interchangeable lenses or other great features.

Matt, I apologise if my explanation was not clear. The issue does not pertain to the EX1 (I am still waiting for mine), it is with regard to a video camera, a 35mm lens adapter and a long 35mm lens. As for footage, I recently deleted it all, as it failed for my intended use. Here is an early configuration of "The Weapon", pre-support lock off for the 400mm lens, and has a 2x extender inserted (and imagine I added the Extension Tube(s)). http://www.siliconcine.net/Brevis/Th...licon_Cine.jpg

Correction to previous post, Sigma 135-400mm f4.5-5.6 D, with a 2x teleconverter added, making it effectively an 800mm mess. Part of the CA issues may pertain to the Sigma being a "D" class lens, whereas "EX" lenses are superior build and optical quality. Chaining that much glass together is the biggest problem.

Thanks Chris, looking back, I see that I should have read your post a second time more carefully. Truly though, your pic was worth my error. Success or not, that is a fantastic looking set-up. Reminds me of seeing the Apollo 13 at Cape Canaveral. If you fail at your adapters I bet at least nasa will give you a job.

Does the EX1 have a thread on the front of it? If so what size is it?

I beleive it does so why couldn't I use a Schneider 2x extender on the front of it?

The EX1's filter thread size is 77 mm, so use that number when you're looking for filters, adapters, etc.

- Don

Matt, for now, my adapter use on the long end does not exceed a 200mm prime T3.1 (f2.8) lens. Tranquility Base...

Brendan, as a comparison, check out the 2x Tele-Converter Schneider makes for, say, an HVX. It has a bayonet mount for Pana. Looking at the chunk of glass, I would be concerned about the amount of weight and potential damage that may occur if I stripped the 77mm thread on an EX1. It is 1.3kg/47oz. A thread mount and support connecting to rails would suit me, but not everyone has/wants rails, so I think Schneider is designing for that aspect.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/Ecomm...=1074&IID=5905

Having a thread mounted Tele would certainly provide the prospect of longevity, if you were to change camera brand, etc. I similarly was trying to setup a rig for surfing footage, using an adapter and long lenses. Perhaps Schneider will also release a 2x Tele, however, even then, I am sure you are hoping for more, as I would. I live on the Gold Coast, we have 'The Superbank', Snapper Rocks.

Good point Chris. The weight of the Schneider 2x is an issue and rails is probably the way to go.

I am totally into no tape - i use the Sony HDR-60 with my V1U and it's great. I find shooting in windy, sandy conditions terrible with tapes. But having the HDR-60 as well as the cam means there is more out there in the wind, combine that with a long lens and its hard not to get camera shake even with a solid head & tripod. So when I saw the EX1 with compact form factor and its SxS cards I started to get interested. So i don't really want to use rails...

I currently own a 16x9 inc 1.5x extender and I find its optical quality to be good. It 'only' weighs 595g so I feel fairly confident with it on a thread mount.

I wonder if Schneider will make 2x for the EX1 - they have a listed a 1.6x for march release - with a bayonet fixing but as yet no 2x.

I think I am going to get a EX1 and see how I get on with the shorter telephoto (compared to the V1U). As previously mentioned fast moving surfers, combined with the moving water around them really tests the HDV standard and I think I will get better results from XDCam.

Brendan,

We do not currently manufacture a 2x with a 77mm screw mount. We avoid using screw mount particularly due to weight issues and the corresponding durability of the manufacturer's filter threads. All the camera manufacturers never intended for a 3 pound chunk of glass to be hanging off of thier filter threads. A screw mount will wear unnecessarily on the threads of your camera. the bayonet system we use is exclusive and the best way to attach heavier accessory optics.

We might be producing a 2x for the EX1 but that is pending design and quality testing on the existing lens. We do not produce a 2x for the Canon XH-A1 due to the extreme telephoto existing on the camera. When magnifying the image on the camera, we discovered too much camera shake and image quality factors to make it usable.

I will keep you all posted if we do any 2x for the EX1. We do have our exceptional 1.6x available for the EX1 in March.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Thanks alot of the info.
I had one of your 1.6 extenders for my FX1 and it was really good.
However, at the time, I could not get a lens hood for that lens.
I beleive that you now make one - part# 0VS-TCSS-00 do you have any details on it? Like how long it is, what type of fitting (is it screw mounted) and what it's made of? I pretty much always use a polarising filter and like to mount the lens hood onto the filter and then i can just turn the hood to turn the filter...

The 0VS-TCSS-00 Sunshade comes is a 105mm clamp-on shade that clamps to the outside diameter of most of our teleconverters. All my engineers are on holiday so I unoffically measured it to be 66mm (2.6") tall and 120mm (4.75") in diameter at the top of the shade (that's the side that doesn't clamp on to the lens). Of course, it is 105mm at the bottom of the shade.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecomm...=1391&IID=6252

If you want to shade it and hold a filter order this one:

http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecomm...=1391&IID=1341

This one requires a 4x4 filter tray and is not as tall as the other because it is meant to work on both the tele and the wide angle attachments.

You can order these parts from our dealers who sponsor this site.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Ryan sent you a message - i am not sure how it works - i hope you received it.

thanks.