Snow Sledding & Basketball footage at DVinfo.net

John Hamlik · January 3rd, 2008, 01:30 AM

I received my EX1 last week and took the opportunity this weekend to shoot my son's basketball game and some sledding we did over New Years. The basketball footage was in a moderately lit gym, gain was set to +3 to obtain a larger f-stop for greater depth of field (I could have shot at -3). I own two canon xh-a1's and have shot in this gym before. They required at least 6 db of gain and were at least a full stop slower at that. I shot the footage in 720p60 just because I wanted to test some SD down conversion and also some slow motion in post. No picture profiles were enable on any of the footage. Used ATW for white balance, everything else I believe was camera defaults.

All the footage are in XDCAM .mov quicktime format (MAC) from using the XDCam Transfer tool, I didn't save the raw mp4's. Still debating on that for workflow. Whether to transfer using the viewer, then converting with the plugin, or just using the transfer tool. The basketball footage was shot on a tripod the snow footage was handheld. For those wondering about handheld, I shot about 1 hr. per day on the sledding footage. First day of sledding was blue sky and sunny, second day was overcast.

Again nothing really special about the footage, just showing a couple of things I haven't seen posted. The sledding footage includes some quick pans for those worried about rolling shutter.

Anyway, check it out.

Basketball 720p60 228MB
Sledding Sunny 720p60 38MB
Sledding Overcast 720p60 58MB

Larry Silverberg · January 3rd, 2008, 07:27 AM

hi John,

do you know what I need in addition to quicktime to play the clips? all i get is sound.

thanks

Dennis Schmitz · January 3rd, 2008, 08:26 AM

I have the same problem.

Tried Quicktime, Quicktime alternative, Zoomplayer and VLC.
Nothing :(

regards Dennis

Craig Seeman · January 3rd, 2008, 09:14 AM

Downloading now. Keep in mind that although wrapped in Quicktime .mov one probably needs to have the Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 XDCAM codec also to play these (which I do have so I'll test).

This means that archival of such FCP XDCAM mov files are not "universally" transferable. I have a hunch it might be better to archive original media off the SxS cards since this would mean anyone with Sony's free Clip Browser which is PC and Intel Mac compatible but not PPC Mac compatible, would be able to view the files. I've also noted that VLC but not Quicktime can play the .mp4 files that come from the SxS cards.

Craig Seeman · January 3rd, 2008, 09:27 AM

Basketball clip plays fine on my system so others may need FCP 6.0.2 XDCAM codec to play in addition to Quicktime.

I noticed my Dual 2.3 G5 couldn't play every frame of the 60fps source with Quicktime. Turning on Play All Frames got about 10fps. Just a comment on the CPU power needed to play such a clip.

Clips play just fine in FCP though as I have been editing my own.

I'm guessing you have shutter off (as I have in most of my p60 tests). I can see where going to a higher shutter speed would reduce the motion blur in slo-mos. That would of course mean throwing more light on somehow.

Thanks for posting the clips!

John Hamlik · January 3rd, 2008, 01:04 PM

These will require the XDCAM codec to play correctly, they are directly from the camera using XDCam transfer software. The shutter was 60, I have played with higher with good results. Seems like 125+ for best results. I will make some pc viewable versions tonight.

John Hamlik · January 3rd, 2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

This means that archival of such FCP XDCAM mov files are not "universally" transferable. I have a hunch it might be better to archive original media off the SxS cards since this would mean anyone with Sony's free Clip Browser which is PC and Intel Mac compatible but not PPC Mac compatible, would be able to view the files. I've also noted that VLC but not Quicktime can play the .mp4 files that come from the SxS cards.

I debated this myself. Benefits of keeping the mp4's using the viewer vs. just XDCAM transfer. I just don't like the double hit time wise using the viewer. You have to transfer the files then use the plugin import. Faster to just use XDCAM transfer. So what are the real benefits of keeping mp4's ?

Dennis Schmitz · January 3rd, 2008, 01:22 PM

That's really strange.
I can play Xdcam EX files in .mp4 or .mxf container with VLC without any problems.

mhh...

regards Dennis

Craig Seeman · January 3rd, 2008, 01:43 PM

When you say "viewer" I assume you mean Sony Clip Browser?

What one choses may well depend on workflow. I've found dragging the BPAV to the desktop fastest when using USB. I haven't tried with Clip Browser yet but I will.

Using Sony XFER tool is slower than dragging the BPAV folder to the desktop.

If you're going straight into FCP than using Sony XFER tool makes sense. If you just want to get the clips off the card and clean it for editing at a later date, dragging or maybe Clip Browser would be faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Hamlik

I debated this myself. Benefits of keeping the mp4's using the viewer vs. just XDCAM transfer. I just don't like the double hit time wise using the viewer. You have to transfer the files then use the plugin import. Faster to just use XDCAM transfer. So what are the real benefits of keeping mp4's ?

Craig Seeman · January 3rd, 2008, 01:47 PM

Dennis do you have Final Cut Pro with XDCAM codec or another NLE with XDCAM codec?

VLC plays the source .mp4 just fine but I have FCP with XDCAM codec on both my Macs.

Keep in mind the files posted here were converted on an FCP system so the MOVs may require the FCP's XDCAM specifically.

Try the files John uploaded and do post back as well as any info about your system/NLE (which may impact the codecs you have installed).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Schmitz

That's really strange.
I can play Xdcam EX files in .mp4 or .mxf container with VLC without any problems.

mhh...

regards Dennis

John Hamlik · January 3rd, 2008, 02:21 PM

I will test the drag and drop method to see what speed difference is. I use my macbook pro to download the footage then I transfer via gig ethernet to my desktop. Using the XDCAM transfer tool on the laptop I get 4x realtime.

Craig Seeman · January 3rd, 2008, 02:46 PM

Express slot on MacBookPro using XDCAM transfer tool at 4X?
Some are reporting about 10x. I suspect that's drag and drop method of the folder from the card (keeps the file integrity). Can you check that?

I know from my own tests with USB (I don't have MacBookPro yet) I can get as much as 4x drag and drop and 1.5 to 2x using XDCAM transfer too. The Transfer tool's wrapping the mp4 to mov really seems to slow things down.

It's a must when you're ready to edit but when you just need to get stuff off the card for shooting, drag and drop seems much faster.

I wonder how using the Clip Browser impacts speed coming from the SxS card.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Hamlik

I will test the drag and drop method to see what speed difference is. I use my macbook pro to download the footage then I transfer via gig ethernet to my desktop. Using the XDCAM transfer tool on the laptop I get 4x realtime.

January 3rd, 2008, 01:30 AM	#1
John Hamlik Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Longview Washington Posts: 26	Snow Sledding & Basketball footage I received my EX1 last week and took the opportunity this weekend to shoot my son's basketball game and some sledding we did over New Years. The basketball footage was in a moderately lit gym, gain was set to +3 to obtain a larger f-stop for greater depth of field (I could have shot at -3). I own two canon xh-a1's and have shot in this gym before. They required at least 6 db of gain and were at least a full stop slower at that. I shot the footage in 720p60 just because I wanted to test some SD down conversion and also some slow motion in post. No picture profiles were enable on any of the footage. Used ATW for white balance, everything else I believe was camera defaults. All the footage are in XDCAM .mov quicktime format (MAC) from using the XDCam Transfer tool, I didn't save the raw mp4's. Still debating on that for workflow. Whether to transfer using the viewer, then converting with the plugin, or just using the transfer tool. The basketball footage was shot on a tripod the snow footage was handheld. For those wondering about handheld, I shot about 1 hr. per day on the sledding footage. First day of sledding was blue sky and sunny, second day was overcast. Again nothing really special about the footage, just showing a couple of things I haven't seen posted. The sledding footage includes some quick pans for those worried about rolling shutter. Anyway, check it out. Basketball 720p60 228MB Sledding Sunny 720p60 38MB Sledding Overcast 720p60 58MB

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January 3rd, 2008, 07:27 AM	#2
Larry Silverberg Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: St. Petersburg, Florida Posts: 27	hi John, do you know what I need in addition to quicktime to play the clips? all i get is sound. thanks

January 3rd, 2008, 08:26 AM	#3
Dennis Schmitz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Viersen, Germany Posts: 120	I have the same problem. Tried Quicktime, Quicktime alternative, Zoomplayer and VLC. Nothing :( regards Dennis

January 3rd, 2008, 09:14 AM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Downloading now. Keep in mind that although wrapped in Quicktime .mov one probably needs to have the Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 XDCAM codec also to play these (which I do have so I'll test). This means that archival of such FCP XDCAM mov files are not "universally" transferable. I have a hunch it might be better to archive original media off the SxS cards since this would mean anyone with Sony's free Clip Browser which is PC and Intel Mac compatible but not PPC Mac compatible, would be able to view the files. I've also noted that VLC but not Quicktime can play the .mp4 files that come from the SxS cards.

January 3rd, 2008, 09:27 AM	#5
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Basketball clip plays fine on my system so others may need FCP 6.0.2 XDCAM codec to play in addition to Quicktime. I noticed my Dual 2.3 G5 couldn't play every frame of the 60fps source with Quicktime. Turning on Play All Frames got about 10fps. Just a comment on the CPU power needed to play such a clip. Clips play just fine in FCP though as I have been editing my own. I'm guessing you have shutter off (as I have in most of my p60 tests). I can see where going to a higher shutter speed would reduce the motion blur in slo-mos. That would of course mean throwing more light on somehow. Thanks for posting the clips!

January 3rd, 2008, 01:04 PM	#6
John Hamlik Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Longview Washington Posts: 26	These will require the XDCAM codec to play correctly, they are directly from the camera using XDCam transfer software. The shutter was 60, I have played with higher with good results. Seems like 125+ for best results. I will make some pc viewable versions tonight.

January 3rd, 2008, 01:22 PM	#8
Dennis Schmitz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Viersen, Germany Posts: 120	That's really strange. I can play Xdcam EX files in .mp4 or .mxf container with VLC without any problems. mhh... regards Dennis

January 3rd, 2008, 02:21 PM	#11
John Hamlik Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Longview Washington Posts: 26	I will test the drag and drop method to see what speed difference is. I use my macbook pro to download the footage then I transfer via gig ethernet to my desktop. Using the XDCAM transfer tool on the laptop I get 4x realtime.