What Zebra Settings are you Using? at DVinfo.net

Michael H. Stevens · January 27th, 2008, 01:14 PM

I'm going to start with 75 for skin and 95 for blow-out. What are you guys using?

Sami Sanpakkila · January 27th, 2008, 01:22 PM

I find myself only using the histogram. Its very good and isnt as disturbing on the image as the zebras. Especially with Peaking on it can get quite cluttered.

sami

Erwin van Dijck · January 27th, 2008, 02:06 PM

At the moment Zebra1 80% and Zebra2 100%.
I thought setting 2 is fixed at 100%?

regards,
Erwin

Michael H. Stevens · January 27th, 2008, 02:11 PM

No. Both Zebras are programable

Michael H. Stevens · January 27th, 2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sami Sanpakkila

I find myself only using the histogram. Its very good and isnt as disturbing on the image as the zebras. Especially with Peaking on it can get quite cluttered.

sami

Interesting Sami. What is your technique? Do you just ajust to get the max dynamic range without clipping?

Ola Christoffersson · January 27th, 2008, 04:37 PM

I use the histogram a lot as well + 100% zebra to prevent overexposure. I find that the LCD not only is very high res but actually also gives a very accurate indication of exposure; Unlike my old PD150 that looked about the same if you exposed right or underexposed two stops.

Leonard Levy · January 27th, 2008, 07:21 PM

Generally 70% zebra is used for caucasian skin. You want to just begin to see it appear. In HD though I often drop it down to 65 or even 60. because there is more room to pick it up and it just seems to look nicer to me.

Ola - I am mystified by the histogram. i understand how it works but don't see how it tells you anything except a very general idea of whether your levels are high or low. How do you use it?

lenny levy

Clark Peters · January 27th, 2008, 08:18 PM

I don't think both zebras are adjustable. I had that impression from reading about the EX1, but the one in my hands will only let me set zebra 1. Zebra 2 is 100 only.
Pete

Sami Sanpakkila · January 28th, 2008, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael H. Stevens

Interesting Sami. What is your technique? Do you just ajust to get the max dynamic range without clipping?

Yeah, and I agree with Ola that the LCD gives a very accurate indication of exposure.

-EDIT-
I was just on a two day shoot and I remember looking at a white wall and thinking it doesn't look overexposed but extremely near to being so and in the histogram and the LCD it also looked like its just on the verge of overexposing. I decided to trust the histogram and when I got back and looked at it on Vegas preview window it was exactly as I saw it on the shoot. Just on the verge of overexposure but not overexposed.
-EDIT-

Sami

Craig Seeman · January 28th, 2008, 07:59 AM

Only one Zebra programable. If you look in status and have both on, 1 will show your setting and 2 will simply be on.

Not sure if 2nd zebra is 100 or 107. I need to check that.

If you're using zebra for clipping rather than subject than keep in mind gamma's setting can impact that. That's the reason Doug Jensen on the Vortex DVD uses 95.

Personally I find setting the zebra at 70 or so for subject too important to ignore. I want to avoid clipping of course but more important is that the subject look good and I may live with a little clipping. For example, if you're shooting into the shadows on a bright day you may have to live with sun/bright clouds clipping so subject doesn't disappear into the shadow.

Ideally I'd like both zebras on but that can get a bit confusing given one zigs right and the other zags left. I wish I could color them or do something else to make them more obviously different.

Randy Strome · January 28th, 2008, 09:20 AM

Possibly a very basic question, but one that I do not understand. What is the value of a potential reading 107% on the center brightness indicator and as a possible setting for the Zebra 1 reading. If some picture information still exists over 100%, what is the nature of this info?

I am having good luck with setting the zebras to 95 and 100, using the center spot for faces, and getting the big picture with the histogram. Also agree that so far the LCD seems trustworthy.

Clark Peters · January 28th, 2008, 09:25 AM

The reason (?) to set zebra 1 high is that it shows a ranges of levels that are 5 points over and 5 points under the actual setting. If you have zebra 1 at 95%, the zebras will show all areas that range from 90 -100%.

I'm not sure what the advantage would be for setting it at 107. I have been told that some data exists above 100%.

Clark

Michael H. Stevens · January 28th, 2008, 09:33 AM

The camera will shoot to 108% without clipping (this may be what is often called super white) but you do not want this unless there really is a strong super illuminated white in the shot. A white cloud on a regular day is probably best recorded at around 95. You want the histogram as wide as possible for the scene but you do not want it to be wider than reality else you will have too much contrast and it will look like amature video. This is my is my take on things - do you guys agree with me?

Randy Strome · January 28th, 2008, 09:49 AM

Hi guys,

In terms of digital still photography, there is a great benfit to pushing the histogram way to the right for images that you intend to tweak in post. In that realm, the sensor is recording way more info in the brights than in the darks, and lowering the histogram back down (left) in post results in much cleaner darks. This of course, requires that you know exactly where your boundary is.

Very interesting that the zebra is a 10% range centered on the slected #. Is this a convention in videography?

I wonder if the recorded info above 100% could contain one or more blown channel. If full info is there, that would be beneficial to know.

Craig Seeman · January 28th, 2008, 10:07 AM

Michael, have you tested this. I'm finding that's not the case unless I'm overlooking something or maybe describing it differently.

For me, if I want to use BOTH zebras at the same time I can set one only. If you look at the Status page you'll see the number listed for zebra 1 and 2 simply listed as "On."

I also find that if I set the zebra to a number and switch between 1 and 2, that number does not change. It does not seem to store a separate number for 1 and 2 unless I'm doing something wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael H. Stevens

No. Both Zebras are programable

January 27th, 2008, 01:14 PM	#1
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	What Zebra Settings are you Using? I'm going to start with 75 for skin and 95 for blow-out. What are you guys using?

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January 27th, 2008, 01:22 PM	#2
Sami Sanpakkila Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 317	I find myself only using the histogram. Its very good and isnt as disturbing on the image as the zebras. Especially with Peaking on it can get quite cluttered. sami

January 27th, 2008, 02:06 PM	#3
Erwin van Dijck Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands Posts: 75	At the moment Zebra1 80% and Zebra2 100%. I thought setting 2 is fixed at 100%? regards, Erwin

January 27th, 2008, 02:11 PM	#4
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	No. Both Zebras are programable

January 27th, 2008, 04:37 PM	#6
Ola Christoffersson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 462	I use the histogram a lot as well + 100% zebra to prevent overexposure. I find that the LCD not only is very high res but actually also gives a very accurate indication of exposure; Unlike my old PD150 that looked about the same if you exposed right or underexposed two stops.

January 27th, 2008, 07:21 PM	#7
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Generally 70% zebra is used for caucasian skin. You want to just begin to see it appear. In HD though I often drop it down to 65 or even 60. because there is more room to pick it up and it just seems to look nicer to me. Ola - I am mystified by the histogram. i understand how it works but don't see how it tells you anything except a very general idea of whether your levels are high or low. How do you use it? lenny levy

January 27th, 2008, 08:18 PM	#8
Clark Peters Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Manhattan, Kansas Posts: 123	I don't think both zebras are adjustable. I had that impression from reading about the EX1, but the one in my hands will only let me set zebra 1. Zebra 2 is 100 only. Pete

January 28th, 2008, 07:59 AM	#10
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Only one Zebra programable. If you look in status and have both on, 1 will show your setting and 2 will simply be on. Not sure if 2nd zebra is 100 or 107. I need to check that. If you're using zebra for clipping rather than subject than keep in mind gamma's setting can impact that. That's the reason Doug Jensen on the Vortex DVD uses 95. Personally I find setting the zebra at 70 or so for subject too important to ignore. I want to avoid clipping of course but more important is that the subject look good and I may live with a little clipping. For example, if you're shooting into the shadows on a bright day you may have to live with sun/bright clouds clipping so subject doesn't disappear into the shadow. Ideally I'd like both zebras on but that can get a bit confusing given one zigs right and the other zags left. I wish I could color them or do something else to make them more obviously different.

January 28th, 2008, 09:20 AM	#11
Randy Strome Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Haiku, HI Posts: 203 Images: 12	Possibly a very basic question, but one that I do not understand. What is the value of a potential reading 107% on the center brightness indicator and as a possible setting for the Zebra 1 reading. If some picture information still exists over 100%, what is the nature of this info? I am having good luck with setting the zebras to 95 and 100, using the center spot for faces, and getting the big picture with the histogram. Also agree that so far the LCD seems trustworthy.

January 28th, 2008, 09:25 AM	#12
Clark Peters Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Manhattan, Kansas Posts: 123	The reason (?) to set zebra 1 high is that it shows a ranges of levels that are 5 points over and 5 points under the actual setting. If you have zebra 1 at 95%, the zebras will show all areas that range from 90 -100%. I'm not sure what the advantage would be for setting it at 107. I have been told that some data exists above 100%. Clark

January 28th, 2008, 09:33 AM	#13
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	The camera will shoot to 108% without clipping (this may be what is often called super white) but you do not want this unless there really is a strong super illuminated white in the shot. A white cloud on a regular day is probably best recorded at around 95. You want the histogram as wide as possible for the scene but you do not want it to be wider than reality else you will have too much contrast and it will look like amature video. This is my is my take on things - do you guys agree with me?

January 28th, 2008, 09:49 AM	#14
Randy Strome Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Haiku, HI Posts: 203 Images: 12	Hi guys, In terms of digital still photography, there is a great benfit to pushing the histogram way to the right for images that you intend to tweak in post. In that realm, the sensor is recording way more info in the brights than in the darks, and lowering the histogram back down (left) in post results in much cleaner darks. This of course, requires that you know exactly where your boundary is. Very interesting that the zebra is a 10% range centered on the slected #. Is this a convention in videography? I wonder if the recorded info above 100% could contain one or more blown channel. If full info is there, that would be beneficial to know.