rolling shutter at DVinfo.net

Adam Forgione · February 27th, 2008, 11:00 PM

is there any mode (1080 60i, 1080 30p, 720 60p, etc.) in the ex1 that decreases or eliminates the camera flash problem

Charles Young · February 28th, 2008, 12:45 AM

No.

..........

Eric Pascarelli · February 28th, 2008, 02:32 AM

24p with shutter off (either 1080 or 720) reduces the probability of the partial exposure, but the probability is still pretty good that it will happen.

Adam Forgione · February 28th, 2008, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Pascarelli

24p with shutter off (either 1080 or 720) reduces the probability of the partial exposure, but the probability is still pretty good that it will happen.

i saw someone post a test, shooting flash into the camera and it was horrible. i mean ive done lots of weddings where the photographer shot 30 pictures (with flas) in less then 1 minutes during major moments like the first dance. how do you deal with something like that. im sure the client would say "theres something wrong with my video."

Bruce Rawlings · February 28th, 2008, 08:43 AM

I think as far as the client is concerned the problem is a general one. In fact there is no problem really as you cannot be responsible for other people's flash guns. When you see a press conference on the TV often the screen is solid flashes and picture disturbance. I don't think there an be a negative because other more expensive cameras such as Red (as reported elsewhere) will react in a similar way because of the CMOS chips.

Phil Bloom · February 28th, 2008, 08:46 AM

first off that video was slowed down so it looked worse. Is was shot 60fps. Yes it looks horrible. The only way round it is cover the whole frame with a flash using a plug in from red giant, a bit of a pain but works a treat

Adam Forgione · February 28th, 2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

first off that video was slowed down so it looked worse. Is was shot 60fps. Yes it looks horrible. The only way round it is cover the whole frame with a flash using a plug in from red giant, a bit of a pain but works a treat

phillip have you used the red giant plug in first hand, if so do happen to have a sample of before /after or do you know of anyone that posted a sample with that experiment.

PS-phillip i love your work, very talented.
im just concerned that the ex1 is not a suitable camera for weddings being that most weddings are under low light ambience forcing the photographers to cponstanly use flash

Steven Thomas · February 28th, 2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Forgione

phillip have you used the red giant plug in first hand, if so do happen to have a sample of before /after or do you know of anyone that posted a sample with that experiment.

PS-phillip i love your work, very talented.
im just concerned that the ex1 is not a suitable camera for weddings being that most weddings are under low light ambience forcing the photographers to cponstanly use flash

It may not be suitable. If you're concerned, you might look the other way.

As Philip mentioned, it's not that hard to replace the frame in post.
Also, not all flashes will cause partial exposure. It depends on the strength of the flash and conditions. I've shot stage footage with the EX1 where there was almost non-stop camera flashes. There were no partial exposures. Now, if one of them turned and aimed their camera at mine, it would of been an issue.

But replacing a few frames is no big deal, IMO.
Especially, with the amount of other stuff I'm working on in post.

Michael Maier · February 28th, 2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Rawlings

I think as far as the client is concerned the problem is a general one. In fact there is no problem really as you cannot be responsible for other people's flash guns. When you see a press conference on the TV often the screen is solid flashes and picture disturbance. I don't think there an be a negative because other more expensive cameras such as Red (as reported elsewhere) will react in a similar way because of the CMOS chips.

Yes but RED is not being marketed to the wedding crowd and I doubt anybody will use one for that. I really think the EX1 is the wrong camera for weddings. For that I would get a camera like the HD110 or even the XL-H1. It also helps they are shoulder cameras.
The client would complain if his video would look choppy and he has the right to do so. This is not a normal or acceptable thing. It would only happen because of the camera's fault and he doesn't care what camera you use, he only wants a nice video, which is what he hired you to do. If you use a camera that can't handled what is being shot it becomes your fault.

Steven Thomas · February 28th, 2008, 04:36 PM

There's trade-offs on those cameras too..
As a JVC owner, the HD110 is not that sensitive under low light conditions.

I believe your correct that the EX1 is not ideal for weddings.

If there are a lot of flashes that caused an issue, it would take extra time replacing those frames.

OTOH, it may be worth it for the low noise 1080P image.

Ronnie Martin · January 6th, 2010, 09:16 AM

Has anyone tried the new Sony Clip software that is supposed to get rid of the banding from the flashes?

Thanks

Ronnie Martin
dirtracingvideo.com

Marcus Durham · January 6th, 2010, 09:51 AM

Just a quick note but I'm just looking at some footage I shot back in November which was taken at night. I was shooting 720p at 1/25 (I needed all the light I could get) and just spotted that the nearby press photographer was using his flash and was not causing any banding whatsoever.

Alister Chapman · January 6th, 2010, 03:40 PM

Clip browser will in remove the vast majority of flash bands from interlaced footage. It does not work with progressive material. Shooting 24P or 25P with no shutter will greatly reduce the instances of Flash bands, but not eliminate them all together.

Marty Welk · January 6th, 2010, 05:46 PM

What exactally is a Rolling shutter? there is no mechanical shutter in front of the cmos chip is there? And the Problems is a "Progressive" (of all words to use) Slow scan and reset of the photon imager chip things right? (that is what the technical analisis said)

so there is nothing rolling, and there is no actual shutter, its a electronic progressive slow scan of the chip? How did this Web word end up getting applied one time to this and it end up with some dark ages film words, when at the same locations people geekspeak with 75 technical Abbreviations , and everyone knows what they are talking about.

Because it is also slow scanned when making an interlace signal, we could create a new abbreviation, that is better suited to the reality of what is occurring.

Progressive Interlace Slow Scanning Cmos Reset And Proceed
ok mabey that wouldnt be a good abbreviation :-) try just PSS for the short abbreviation

Then when a Customer asks why the camera has a problem , you just tell them it has a bad case of PSS.

Does the Clip Browsers "Fixing" require that the now encoded video get de-re-compressed to be able to work with the magic Long GOP compression and manipulate the internal frames?

Roger Shore · January 6th, 2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Welk

Progressive Interlace Slow Scanning Cmos Reset And Proceed
ok mabey that wouldnt be a good abbreviation :-) try just PSS for the short abbreviation

Then when a Customer asks why the camera has a problem , you just tell them it has a bad case of PSS.

How about ' Progressive Motion Technology' -- or 'PMT' for short?

OK, maybe not !! :-)

It does seem as if those who have stuck with CCDs for wedding videography seem happier! -- I think I would consider the Panasonic AG HMC150 for that kind of work.

Reasonable low light images, and absolutely no 'flash banding'.

February 27th, 2008, 11:00 PM	#1
Adam Forgione Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New York Posts: 48	rolling shutter is there any mode (1080 60i, 1080 30p, 720 60p, etc.) in the ex1 that decreases or eliminates the camera flash problem

February 28th, 2008, 08:46 AM	#6
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	first off that video was slowed down so it looked worse. Is was shot 60fps. Yes it looks horrible. The only way round it is cover the whole frame with a flash using a plug in from red giant, a bit of a pain but works a treat __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

January 6th, 2010, 09:16 AM	#11
Ronnie Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Brandon, Ms 39042 USA Posts: 159	Has anyone tried the new Sony Clip software that is supposed to get rid of the banding from the flashes? Thanks Ronnie Martin dirtracingvideo.com __________________ Ronnie Martin Kato Video

January 6th, 2010, 09:51 AM	#12
Marcus Durham Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 693	Just a quick note but I'm just looking at some footage I shot back in November which was taken at night. I was shooting 720p at 1/25 (I needed all the light I could get) and just spotted that the nearby press photographer was using his flash and was not causing any banding whatsoever. __________________ Marcus Durham Media2u, Corporate Video Production For Your Business - http://www.media2u.co.uk

January 6th, 2010, 03:40 PM	#13
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Clip browser will in remove the vast majority of flash bands from interlaced footage. It does not work with progressive material. Shooting 24P or 25P with no shutter will greatly reduce the instances of Flash bands, but not eliminate them all together. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

February 28th, 2008, 12:45 AM	#2
Charles Young Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Heeney colorado Posts: 103	No. ..........

February 28th, 2008, 02:32 AM	#3
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	24p with shutter off (either 1080 or 720) reduces the probability of the partial exposure, but the probability is still pretty good that it will happen.

February 28th, 2008, 08:43 AM	#5
Bruce Rawlings Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 410	I think as far as the client is concerned the problem is a general one. In fact there is no problem really as you cannot be responsible for other people's flash guns. When you see a press conference on the TV often the screen is solid flashes and picture disturbance. I don't think there an be a negative because other more expensive cameras such as Red (as reported elsewhere) will react in a similar way because of the CMOS chips.

February 28th, 2008, 04:36 PM	#10
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	There's trade-offs on those cameras too.. As a JVC owner, the HD110 is not that sensitive under low light conditions. I believe your correct that the EX1 is not ideal for weddings. If there are a lot of flashes that caused an issue, it would take extra time replacing those frames. OTOH, it may be worth it for the low noise 1080P image.

January 6th, 2010, 05:46 PM	#14
Marty Welk Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Bay Cali Posts: 563	What exactally is a Rolling shutter? there is no mechanical shutter in front of the cmos chip is there? And the Problems is a "Progressive" (of all words to use) Slow scan and reset of the photon imager chip things right? (that is what the technical analisis said) so there is nothing rolling, and there is no actual shutter, its a electronic progressive slow scan of the chip? How did this Web word end up getting applied one time to this and it end up with some dark ages film words, when at the same locations people geekspeak with 75 technical Abbreviations , and everyone knows what they are talking about. Because it is also slow scanned when making an interlace signal, we could create a new abbreviation, that is better suited to the reality of what is occurring. Progressive Interlace Slow Scanning Cmos Reset And Proceed ok mabey that wouldnt be a good abbreviation :-) try just PSS for the short abbreviation Then when a Customer asks why the camera has a problem , you just tell them it has a bad case of PSS. Does the Clip Browsers "Fixing" require that the now encoded video get de-re-compressed to be able to work with the magic Long GOP compression and manipulate the internal frames? __________________ ----------------sig----------------- Re-learning everything all over again, one more time.