Thanks Gerald
Version: V1.05_0405

Both cameras came back this afternoon from Holland. I had little time to conduct tests before it got dark outside.
Backfocus looks much better from what I can see. Nonetheless I will conduct more tests tomorrow morning because it's peach black outside now in Athens.
I will also check for vignetting.
Funny thing is that when I tried to mount on one of the EX1s its battery I could hardly fit it in the slot. Well guess what? Under the battery compartment there is little philips screw. I unscrew it only to realize that it was too long and when it was screwed in it pressed the battery compartment so the battery wouldn't fit correctly. I had to unscrew 11 screws from the other places on the camera to finally find that the long screw belonged somewhere else and a narrower screw should not be placed there but underneath the battery compartment.
Well I guess those people at SONY Prime Support must be in a lot of rush to mix different sizes of screws. Those guys must be really busy dismounting EX1s. That proves that the camera was opened or tried to at least. I don't know if they conducted the back focus adjustment through the service menu, they sure did a screw relocation though!

Paul, thats a good idea. The information is spread over so many threads now. Might be a little difficult to find everything if you missed one thread.
I have to leave for work now (shooting a soccer game) - would you volunteer to open a new thread?

I just tried to open a new thread but couldn't upload the same pics again.
I'll open the thread anyway so as people can start uploading their pics.

Paul.

Paul,

Many thanks for your demo - fascinating to see how the camera does the auto flange back. It also makes it clear why having multiple charts on a flat surface helps; the camera must struggle to get a focus when wide in your workshop with lots of targets with well defined edges as far back as your window then out to infinity. Might be worth trying again if you have a flat surface large enough to fill the image when wide.

Cheers, Nick

Gerald when you do your BF adjustment with 12 8"x11" charts at full wide do you only have a white wall in the frame? I do not have a spot that is that big a white surface at 3 meters.

Paul,
yes I only had a white wall in the frame - nothing else.
I think you also could go a little closer - but thats only speculation...

cu,
Gerald

Giving it a go
 

Thanks for all the info.

I have today made up a large piece of plywood with 12 A4 BF charts on it and intend to follow your process tomorrow by placing the plywood against a vertical wall outside. I will post the results.

Hi, I am trying all day now to reproduce your recipe, and I really doubt, that the camera stores backfocus settings for each position of the nd filter switch.

I came up with results that seemed to proove this but, when I had a chance to check real far away infinity focus, I always saw differences.

I think your method is very good to help the fb autoadjust to do its job as good as possible.
But I´m pretty shure, that it just remembers the last run, no mather if it is that with or without nd filter.

After a day of fumbling around I came up with a setup that has only slight focusloss in the nd settings and is perfect without nd filter.
I think I´ll keep that and use external nd filters as often as possible.
Thats for an earlier firmware (1.02).

Is anybody absolutely shure that other firmware versions store the backfocus settings for each nd filter setting?

I was, as long as my far focus reference was at about 20 meters distance. But as I rechecked that settings with 100 meter away objects I had to admit, that in fact it was not on the spot.

Regards
Holger

Holger, we should simply ask a Sony technician about that.

Holger,
I´ve tried it with cameras with a later firmware version - FW 1.03 and FW 1.05 and it worked. I´ve tried it with objects that were about 600m away...
It works perfectly now as you can see on the pictures I posted and I switched between ND filters very often.

How can you tell if it is in focus when you zoom out because the image is so small???

I must have this problem as a whole four days shooting is down the drain - everything out of focus!!!!

This year's must have accessory for EX1 owners - starburst wallpaper :-)

You heard it here first!

Cheers, Nick

Are there any more guys out there having success with this setting? I've tried it for 5 times yesterday but no such luck.

It is a 1.03 version and one of the very earliest cameras. I've scanned a Siemens star and printed it out on an A3 paper. I've printed 30 of such prints to produce a very large area! However I still could not go more than 2.5 mtrs (8 feet) away without getting something else in the screen.

And the problem in my case is also present without the ND filter. Once I'm zoomed in the picture is nice and focused - once I zoom out the picture can be seen getting soft.

I'm really eager to know whether others are having success with this recipe - as the photos attached by Gerald are really amazing and impressive.

Brian,
I´m very disappointed to hear that it did not work for you!
Maybe you can retry from a little further away? The testcharts did not cover the entire frame at full wide during my tests as well - that should not be the problem.
Maybe I really was just lucky - others even had success with only one test chart, which did not work for me.
Its weird...
I will retest the loaner camera with FW1.03 once again and more closely today, before it will be picked up tomorrow by UPS.
All this talk about working with only one ND-filter made me a little insecure and so I want to do some more tests. Time to open the box once again!
I will report back soon.

Gerald, I was actually very surprised when I read your successful method because as far as I know, a back focus setting involves a mechanical change. Thus in my opinion, when one does a BF setting on ND2 I believe that one looses the BF setting of the ND off (although I might be wrong as I'm no optic technician). In fact after I've done all the steps that you had performed and seeing that it did not work for me after a number of times, I decided to do the BF setting only on the ND off setting (that is without perfoming a BF adjustment on ND1 and ND2 so as not to alter anything just in case my reasoning is correct). However on examining the footage I still saw the horrible softening of the image on going to the wide setting.

Having said this, it might be that I'm doing something wrong and I'm not suggesting that Gerald's method is wrong. It simply did not work for me.

I'm tempted to go to a professional printer to have a big blow up of a Siemens chart printed on a poster so as to have the whole frame covered from a distance of about 4 meters - I know this sounds a bit crazy - but this camera is getting me crazy in the first place. And I have a feeling that if I manage to sort out this BF issue, the issue of seeing the picture go soft when downconverting from HD to SD will be resolved - just my hunch!

I guess that it is not too important that the charts cover the field of view. What is important is that there is nothing within the field of view at a different distance that will be used by the camera to get its wide angle focus. I am assuming that there is no need for proper backfocus charts - the procedure might well work if you show the camera a big expanse of brick wall or other surface sufficiently textured for it to get a focus.

Nick

There is no mechanical adjustment. The EX1 lens is a servo controlled varifocal, which uses look-up tables to hold the focus as the lens is (mechanically) zoomed. This is cheaper than a lens optically designed to hold backfocus, and is the reason (along with electronic CAC) why the EX1 delivers the results it does at a price for the whole camera less than a 1/2 inch broadcast lens. The Auto FB process recalibrates the lookup table, which is why it is essential that the camera gets a focus at the same range at tele and wide. It seems that separate look up tables are used for each ND setting, which is why the calibration needs to be done for each ND setting.

Cheers, Nick

Just returned from the garden - loaded the testclips from the loaner camera (FW1.03) into Final Cut Pro and watched the clips in full resolution.
I did test shots switching between ND - filter positions multiple times.
The camera has FW 1.03 and I did the FB calibration with multiple charts on friday.
After very close inspection I can definitely say that it is perfectly fixed. The camera is tack sharp and spot on at all ND positions. Also objects really far away are sharp. (of course there are limits due to the lens glass...)
I can post another split screen image of todays testclips if you want.
Maybe you really need at least FW 1.03 to do the adjustment for all ND settings??? Does anybody know what Adam Wilt´s camera has?
So far all negative reports I read are coming from cameras with FW 1.02...

I will now put the loaner camera back into the box...

regards,
Gerald

It worked!
 

Thank you Gerald - I followed your instructions using a display of 12 A4 Starburst charts )my local wallpaper shop had never heard of the wallpaper) - I placed this on a piece of large plywood about 4 foot by 6 foot and placed this against a wall.

I set the camera up about 10 foot from the charts.

The wide angle shot extended onto the ground and wider than the wall - the wall was about 18 feet wide. So the wide angle view extended well outside the wall.

The result was that the softness I have previously experienced has gone.

So thanks again - it worked for me.

Hi again,
after my dissapointing tests with the 12 focuscharts on my firmware version 1.02, I tried again.
This time I just took a huge house over the street which completly blocks the frame (about 10 metres away, relatively flat fassade) and ran fb auto with no focus charts at all.
This worked much better. But I´m very shure now that the camera remembers only the last auto allign run, at least in version 1.02.

So I took ND1 as a Medium setting and did the line up on this setting. That worked near to perfect for all settings , may be its perfect but I seem to be oversensibilized by now.

Great to hear, Gerald! Makes me much more confident in buying.
Yes, please post split screen image.

Nick thanks for your interesting explanation. Following these recent posts I checked again my camera and realised that I had mistakenly thought to be a FW 1.03. In fact it is a FW 1.02 and it has never been sent back to Sony. It seems that Holger has almost solved his problem even though it is a 1.02 by going further away to do the test. I have yet to find such a scenario where I can do the test from about 10 meters away. Are there any more 1.02's who managed to solve the BF issue or do we need an upgrade to at least 1.03?

And more interestingly, are there any cameras which are being bought now that do not need any BF adjustments? If so, do they have the FW 1.05 or better?

Given recent posts on this subject, I need to choose my words carefully, but it seems that firmware version is not the problem. Folk's experience with the Auto FB procedure and the routine which we have developed between us, suggests that any firmware version will give an accurate backfocus if the procedure is done properly. The inescapable conclusion is that, for early cameras, Sony was not doing it properly. There seem to be two possible reasons:

1. The Auto FB procedure should have been run at the factory as part of the manufacturing process, but was forgotten, or

2. A standard set of focus look-up tables, which it was assumed would work for all lenses, was part of the firmware. The Auto FB procedure was only intended to be used at repair shops for cameras with backfocus problems.

I would assume the latter. It seems from the vignetting issue that Sony mistakenly thought that lenses could just be taken out of the Fujinon box, be fixed onto the camera and would work. Thinking that a default backfocus table would also work for all cameras is part of the same thought process.

Nick

What is "A standard set of focus look-up tables"?

It seems to me that the verdict is still not in on the backfocus issue but I am definitely not certain that my original post was correct that you need the 1.05 firmware. That's what Sony told me and I repeated it. I am inclined to expect that it should make some difference in how the camera back-focuses, but who knows at this point.

Pretty weird really.

I have heard some rumors from a Sony source that a new FW is in the works which should fix all problems.
I do not know how trustworthy this is - so please take it with a grain of salt.

It's possible that the camera's firmware was updated at the last minute which and for some reason, over wrote the BF lookup table. This could of happened when the cameras may have left the factory with version 1.01, but then was upgraded to a later version...

Of course, this is just a WILD guess.

Well, it appears at least versions 1.03 and up, if the procedure is done correctly, whatever that may be, it should work. Or, maybe Sony has a new firmware version to relieve this misery.

It's possible you want the target/s to fill a certain amount of field of view when wide, but not to much. All cameras, especially at full wide, have a slight difference in center to edge focus, curvature, or TFD (total focus deviation).

During the setup, when zoomed in, you filled the field of view with the target. (Wow, that was a tongue twister.. LOL).
You manually adjust focus on the siemens star.

At full wide, because the field of view is different for the target, the camera may find focus a bit different then where it would of if you were able to manually override the calibration when it went wide.
Hmm... That may be a great user option to have in a firmware upgrade and offer it in a regular menu location.

I have a feeling it's just dang senitive to the setup.

Adam Wilt just reported he was able to get his EX1 camera BF decent by using a large target and setting all three ND settings.
Great news!

We will eventually figure this out.
We are almost there, if not there already. What we really need is Sony to drop in and set us straight about this issue and what the firmware versions entail.
Maybe a new version???

Hi Leonard

I'm guessing that to control costs, Sony want cameras which are put together on an assembly line and come off the end (a) identical and (b) ready for end users without the need for any calibration. This is how Handycams (up to and including the Z1) are built, and it seems to work. All of the variables in the software control, such as exposure, translating zoom and focus inputs to the movement of glass, are the same from one camera to the next, partly because their Zeiss lenses (which are designed with help from but not built by Zeiss) have build consistency absolutely nailed.

It seems with the EX1 that they wanted to do the same. Unfortunately, a combination of very fine tolerances and some variation between Fujinon lenses (after all, their other products all get individually calibrated) meant that this approach did not work. My guess is that they built prototypes and calibrated them, then lifted all the calibration data including the lens control tables into the production firmware. As we are seeing, with a significant number of cameras this approach results in less than perfect operation.

Nick

Do you guys really think that a firmware update is going to fix the backfocus issue automatically without any adjustment?

No,
we can ONLY hope they PLEASE offer the upgrade via download and a USB flash at our own risk. I'm praying this is the case.

It's going to be way to much burden to have them deal with this issue. The vignetting is large enough.

Again, I'm hoping they offer us the procedure and USB software and add the disclaimer to try this at your own risk.

NO - I´m sure adjustment will be necessary.
From what this source said - there even might be a recall for some cameras (he is not sure about this) - even for the new FW it will be necessary to send the camera in to Sony.
I do not know how trustworthy this source is - he says he worked for Sony and still has some good contacts there. Its only speculation...

Why should there be any risk? If it messes up the camera it should be Sonys problem since it's their firmware.

There is a risk, because it's possible to brick a camera during a firmware upgrade if the procedure isn't done properly. A botched upgrade procedure performed by the manufacturer's service center is their fault -- but if you do it yourself and botch it, then it's your fault. Thus the disclaimer as Steven Thomas rightfully suggests (and it's a standard warning from any manufacturer).

Thats indeed great news!!!
Looks like my method really works! A large enough target and doing the calibration for each ND setting seems to be the way to fix it.
Adams technique to use a huge monitor displaying a Siemens star is an excellent idea!

Can someone please point me towards Adam's report. AS I posted elsewere Gerald's suggestion solved my backfocus problem.

End of page:
http://provideocoalition.com/index.p..._explained/P1/

I have had no luck getting my backfocus fixed through the maintenance menu. It is certainly infuriating.

Do others who have BF problems notice that (at least with the ND on) the only way to get far away things in focus is to turn the focus to the minimum distance? I can zoom into some far away trees and get focus and pull out but have to go to the opposite end of infinity to get infinity focus. Aargh!

Benjamin

Benjamin,
I´m sorry to read that it did not work for you.
I had exactly the same situation with 2 cameras before I could fix it.
Did you try the adjustment as described in this thread?
Most of the users who tried it so far had some success.

I have tried it with one chart, six charts and just tried with a siemens chart displayed through a 50" plasma (although that got really weird looking and probably was not as good an idea).
I called the highly reputable dealer in Boston that I bought it from and spoke to their head engineer and was surprised that to his knowledge nobody else has mentioned the backfocus problem. They have sold a lot of EX-1s and rent them as well. It had me thinking I was just being crazy and seeing a problem that was not real but I have confirmed that it is a problem. The dealer will certainly support in getting it to Sony, but I am just scared from people saying Sony did nothing to fix it.

Benjamin what is your camera's firmware version? I too have not been successful after more than 10 attempts and making sure I'm following Gerald's procedure to the letter. My FW is 1.02

Gerald, could you post another split screen image of your actual testclips?
Would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.