FW 1.03. Gonna try again today.

These are my before/after tests - roll mouse over image to switch:

http://www.mdma.tv/ex1/fb.html

Full story here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...108433&page=47

Perhaps this thread is a more logical place to continue.

Much appreciated, Matt, thanks.

Michael,
unfortunately I already formated the SxS card with the test clips of the loaner camera, as it was picked up today - they looked exactly like the ones I already posted on this forum from my camera - no difference at all. (looked exactly like this: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....29&postcount=3 )
Sorry,
Gerald

Has Sony (or the service manual) said the FB adjustment needs be done once for each ND setting or is this a sumize?

I talked with Sony today on the BF problem and was told NO you do not need to do it with ND on that is only remembers the last adjustment. Also I was told that it is better to have a black background and only the Focus Chart/black background in the frame at full wide. But it seem that Gerald has proven that this is not needed.

Then I said that will not be easy for me at full wide and 3 meters how about a brick building. He said that was fine but make sure it is well lit and be wide open iris.

The fact that many NEED to find that setup to properly tune our BF is ridiculous. I tried again today (6 charts on white wall) with fellow DVinfo user Bill Parker (who also had bad BF problems). I got it all fixed (so I thought). Every setting looked sharp. We went to lunch and I was all happy. We came back and lo and behold my backfocus was off again.

It is right on with the ND OFF, but with ND I need to go to min focus to get infinity focused. Really stupid. I am giving up for now, as I have to travel with the camera this week but it is going to the dealer next week.

Aargh.

Benjamin that does not sound good.

Hmm...
Why is this?
It was good, then bad. Strange.

After you ran the calibration and determined that it was good, did you power cycle the camera, or did you keep using it for a while?

It sounds like there may be step needed to have it remember the settings.

I did the BF adjustment and then powered down and went to lunch. Yeah, is there a "Save" thing? I doubt it. This is troubling. Between this and my faulty zoom lever (doesn't do a slow zoom) hopefully Sony will deal with it.

Boo :-(

Well did Gerald's routine and back focus is still wrong. Actually after the two EX1s came back from service (first time) the zoom out (wide angle) setting didn't look as bad as it was before service.
Now for the bad news: Whole image be it zoomed in all the way or at widest focal length looks soft. i can't even have a pinch sharp image at telephoto. Another thing is that I can see cyan and red coloration at the edge of some of my subjects. Is that color aberration?
Got a call from SONY and they asked me to send both cameras back for the second time.
Generally it seems that backfocus is not the major issue but achieving a sharp focus in general.

backfocus control on LCD?
 

Im am going to buy an EX1 during a vacation in the US and will not have access to an external monitor, hence my question:
Is it possible to judge proper or incorrect backfocus merely on the EX1' LCD, when magnification is switched to 1:1? I will carry a focus chart with me. Thanks in advance.

Michael,
you can see the backfocus problem on the LCD if you use the expanded focus.
Make sure to turn the focus to the 0,8m stop once you zoomed out, to make sure if there is any difference. Try it with objects that are far away.

regards,
Gerald

So far, I've not witnessed the typical backfocus problem symptomps with my EX1 - i.e. regardless of the ND filter settings, when I zoom in - focussed - zoomed out to reframe, the focus still held OK.

However, sometimes I'm in doubt when after engaging ND filter with auto iris on, I'm loosing focus. I thought (and would like to still think) this is due to the change in iris opening, which changed my DOF (and with 1/2" sensors it can be more noticeable than with my previous cameras like the V1 which only has 1/4" imagers).

To make absolutely sure, please tell me again what probably has been said many times already: when testing for backfocus problem, do I zoom in and focus for infinity before zooming out? Or does the fact that I'm loosing focus when engaging/disengaging ND with auto iris on also suggest my backfocus needs adjustment? Thanks!

Piotr,
It´s pretty easy to check.
Make sure that iris is set to manual and that ƒ1,9 is set. Adjust the brightness of the picture with the shutter speed.
Zoom in to an object thats very far away. Focus. Zoom out and see if your pictures is still sharp.
After you have zoomed out also turn the focus to the 0.8m stop and watch if the image gets sharper. If it does - your backfocus is off. If it gets blurry when turning the focus - its probably o.k.

When you checked your backfocus before - did you have the aperture wide open? Did it open further when you engaged auto iris?

Yep - that's the point. I never noticed striking softness when reframing, therefore I assumed my backfocus is OK. Only now, after I invested in a 50" HDTV as a preview device and watching some of my recordings again, do I notice that sometimes when engaging ND, my focus gets soft untill I compensated - but still, I think the autoiris was on and it simply opened up, thus decreasing DOF.

Nevertheless, I'm going to perform the proper checking procedure as you described, Gerald. Thanks!

I think hopefully a qualified camera tech will chime in here and maybe make some helpful comments.

It is possible with a PD150 to blow the image all out soft and furry if an overbright image is laid on the CCD and controlled only with shutter speed.

Unless the experiment is carefully controlled, it may be possible for a self-fulfilling "false" backfocus defect to be generated in the EX1 in the search for one, genuine backfocus faults in some cameras notwithstanding.

Gerald, can the LCD's expanded focus moved to the corners of the frame to control focus there as well?

Michael,
unfortunately this is not possible - its only a center zoom.

Thats not the case here... It could be done, but then it would also be blurry if fully zoomed in. With ND2 on, the image itself is rarely too bright as well. I think what you mean is that one can also create a blurry image if the aperture is almost closed at ƒ16, as the EX1´s lens sweet spot actually is below ƒ8. If you close it further, the image starts getting blurry again and is completely fuzzy short before its closed completely. (but thats perfectly normal and differs from lens to lens)
I studied camera and work as a professional cameraman for 15 years now - so believe me, I know how to check backfocus ;-)

The method I described at the beginning of this thread is an accurate way to test back focus as are all of Gerald's comments. Like Gerald I spent many years as a 16mm tech and worked in rental houses checking lens back focus more times than i would like to recall. its not brain surgery and its easy to tell if you are on or off, but a large monitor is essential.

Lenny Levy

I feel like my bf is not as sharp as I would want it but i'm pretty much done with this subject for the next 3 months. I'm not going to even worry about this for a couple of reasons.

A. there is nothing you can do to completly make it perfect that has been confirmed.

B. i'm going to wait till sony makes a press release or has some documentation about the situation and an updated firmware that specifically fixes the bf problem.

Until then, i'm going to do like Phil Bloom and focus on the things that the camera CAN do.

I'm not sure how you define perfect, but it's not an issue with some cameras. Gerald was able to adjust two cameras. Mine never had the problem, and I'm as anal as they come... LOL...
Now, don't get me going about vignetting. That's another story.

You're right about kicking back and waiting for Sony to address this issue with an official statement. It's obvious they know this is an issue. There have been some that have tried a couple cameras just to find out that they all had the BF issue.

Gerald.

As usual, I probably opened my mouth a bit too soon.

I also endorse Gerald's comment. Enjoy the things the camera can do. I regret I did not have any more than my few hours to play with the demo camera here.

It did not seem to have a backfocus problem and the dealer suggested that the vignette problem had been dealt with when I mentioned it.

I did not find it in direct-to-camera use but with a Mini35 on front, the steadyshot had to be turned off otherwise it did bring in the edges of the prism path very deep into the TV safe area.

Got my camera back from Sony. They where pretty fast from the free pickup to return it took only 5 days (weekend inbetween).
They updated the firmware to 1.05
Focus with N2 perfect.
Focus with Nd1 and Nd off slightly soft.

After doing the fd autoallign to a brickwall at about 13m away,
it keeps focus in all nd settings.

That prooves in my opinion
firmware 1.02 no go , firmware 1.05 works (can´t say anything about 1.03)
and sony has problems using their own autoallignment, but they obviously try to do their best with a fast service.
So after messing around for nearly 2 weeks with that problem, I seem to have a fixed cam now.

Thats like most electronic products nowadays:
They are like bananas, they ripen at the client.

Holger

Good to hear that you have a sharp cam now, Holger, after laying hands on yourself.
Anyway, returning it to you with focus slightly off for the two main ND settings is not what I would expect from a Prime support. Don't forget that Europeans pay a premium of about EUR 1,500.00 for this service.

Well I didn´t pay extra for premium support.
I bought my camera in late december at videocation in munich an got 2 years of premium support included.

Holger

What I am referring to is that the much higher European price is a result of the included Prime support.

I like the 13m and brick wall to adjust BF it makes sense to me.

Well, I've just checked mine FW - it's 1.02_0337, and I never had problems with back focus (which of course doesn't prove anything), but:

- have you noticed any other change in your camera performance, which would be worth sending mine for the FW update?

Well up to now, I couldn´t find any obvious changes.
As Sony likes to keep things secret, there is no kind of documentation about what has changed. They don´t even send back a remark what has been done with the camera.
And, to be honest, I think they don´t document it cause its just bugfixing.
Normally if they got a new feature or real improvements, they don´t keep that quiet.
But I really would like to know how many undiscovered bugs are sleeping, just waiting to give us the next hard time.

Holger

The EX is a Cylon camera, with all the memories and experiences of a normal human made Sony device........until activation. Then it will........rebel. Dramatically.

How could you humans have all been so blind?

Dr. Baltar
Instrument of God.

Wish me luck
 

I am sending my cam in to Sony today to have them fix the backfocus (and zoom toggle). Wish me luck.

I picked up my loaner from the dealer. The BF is certainly better on this. I need to test a little more to see if its spot on.

I just tried another EX-1 that my old company just bought. Their backfocus was off too as it turns out.

Sheesh.

B

I sent my ex1 back for the backfocus issue and happen to read the posts about the telephoto issues related to focus.. I Sony to make sure they also checked the lens for that as well. The tech said it was already packed and will likely ship out today... I told not ship it back unless they were sure the lens was ok, he claimed they had already addressed that issue while it was there.


I guess I will find that out in a few days

Chuck

Let us know how it works out Chuck.

I wonder how they check far focus using full telephoto.
They mentioned they checked for this?

They would have to have distant objects greater than 60 feet from the EX1 with the objects set in a line at the same focus distance and have them cover the entire field of view. Of course, the camera should not be angled to the subject and ideally set to f1.9 (open) to have DOF as tight as possible for critical adjustment.

Which brings up the million dollar question, what is the adjustment for this issue?

Hi, I just wonder how do you get rid of that extra menu?

Thank you

The menu disappears when you turn off/turn on the camera.

... or CANCEL back, and press the MENU button as ususal ;)

Eric's right, once you enable the service menu it remains until you power off.

back focus question
 

A quick question regarding focusing on infinity. Is it normal to have to roll back a bit from the full-stop setting of my focus ring to get to the infinity setting?

If I go to the full-stop on my focus ring, it seems to be focusing PAST infinity and I get a blurry image. Is this indicative of a back focus problem?