Dissatisfied with Sony Prime Support at DVinfo.net

Gerald Loidl · March 25th, 2008, 12:04 PM

When you buy a new EX1 here in Austria you get 2 years of "Prime Support" with your purchase from Sony.
My camera still has the backfocus problem although it was upgraded to the new firmware version. The camera was sent in 2 times so far and spent 5 weeks at the repair shop so far, and the issue was not fixed at all. A Sony sales representative wanted to exchange my camera last week only to find out that the camera has the same issue...
I got a loaner camera from prime support 5 weeks ago - it also has the backfocus issue as well, but at least it works with ND off which my "repaired" camera doesn´t. When I asked for another loaner camera they just said that they do not have any left.
Sony says they do not know how to repair my camera and that they do not have any replacement cameras or working loaner cameras they can give me.
The Prime Support contract clearly says that they have to provide me with a working loaner camera.
Today Prime Support called me and they demanded their loaner camera back!!!
I said "no way" as I would not have any usable camera then. The lady got very unfriendly then and threatened me, that they would send me a bill for the loaner camera, if I refused to turn it back!!! Is that the customer support I have to expect as a professional customer?? They say they cant repair mine and do not offer any solution for me! If this situation is not resolved soon I will call a lawyer - this really can´t be true! This is the worst customer service I ever experienced. The sales representative from Sony Austria tries to resolve this issue now - he also has my camera at the moment and handed it over to his technicians.

Sorry for venting!
Gerald

George Kroonder · March 25th, 2008, 01:13 PM

Hi Gerald,

First off, you should expect and get a good camera. And Sony (and especially your reseller) are responsible for provideing you with one.

However if I read your message correctly, your own cam is back from "repair" and you still have the "loaner cam". This is where things go bad, as Sony expects you to return the loaner after your own cam is returned, or they'll invoice you (for list!).

You cannot hold the loaner "hostage" but you could try to convince them to pickup your cam again for repair and to keep the loaner. That is, if you feel they'll be able to fix it...

Maybe the best thing is to speak to a Sony regional manager (through your reseller) and work out a solution. I would go for a replacement.

If you were a consumer (not a business) you could actually return it to the reseller for replacement under European legislation. Unfortunately (well in this case anyway) this is not the case for business-to-business sales.

If you feel no amicable solution is possible you could go the legal route and start with a "notice of default" (Inverzugsetzung). Sometime this alone is enough to get the focus back on your problem. Primarily your reseller is responsible for providing you with a working solution.

Hope this helps.

George/

P.S. Nice Cadillacs!

Gerald Loidl · March 25th, 2008, 01:42 PM

George,
thanks for your tips!
You are right I cant hold the camera hostage.
The Prime Support contract says that you can keep the loaner camera until you are fully satisfied with the repair and you have up to five days to test the repaired camera after it was returned from repair. My camera is now at Sony in Vienna for evaluation of the problem, so I don´t have it here. If I send the loaner back I would not have any camera at all!
They also said that they do not know how to fix my camera and a solution could take a while. I can´t afford not to have a camera at all as the next rental house is too far away and I have to earn some money.

cu,
Gerald

PS: thanks for the props on my cars

Pavlos Symeon · March 25th, 2008, 02:03 PM

Gerald,

You are right 110% and I can relate to your problem since I had both my EX1s send to the Netherlands for backfocus/vignetting adjustment. I have also talked to Nina and Annie only to realize how unprofessional PRIMESUPPORT is as well. Lots of indications point to this direction.

1. When I called them (in UK) there was a party going on in the background and they had to put me on hold because they couldn't hear what I was telling them. What kind of "local store" is this?
2. A week after I sent the cameras and there was no confirmation or receiving them. I had to email them twice in order to find out that the cameras had arrived in Holland.
3. What kind of attitude is this, "we don't know what is wrong with your camera?" Well my dear friends at SONY you better find out soon cause hell is breaking lose soon. You are the professional division and answers like this are unacceptable. We don't play with those cameras. We make a living.
4. After the supposed repair of the camera don't they check it out to find if the problem was corrected? It's a five minute procedure. Do they prefer to deal with resending empty boxes and cause anguish to their clients instead.

Unacceptable, period.
I am venting and imagine I haven't gotten my cameras back yet (fixed or not fixed it doesn't matter)

Gearld keep us posted. Who knows, we might have to take a coordinated action.

Chris Hurd · March 25th, 2008, 02:16 PM

Just a reminder to please keep these proceedings tactful and professional please. If all you want to do is "vent," start your own blog and vent. That's not what this site is for. Please be very careful and civil in your choice of words here. Thanks in advance,

Gerald Loidl · March 25th, 2008, 02:23 PM

Chris,
I basically fully agree with you. I think that this information can be very helpful for other EX1 owners though. This way they can get some info on what they can expect from the companies customer support should they run into problems.

Chris Hurd · March 25th, 2008, 02:28 PM

As long as it's information, and not frustrated ranting. There is a right way (that is, a polite and reserved way) to discuss these matters and get them resolved. Since this site embodies my own professional reputation, I am very particular about the way things are said here. I have already edited this thread's title and have withdrawn a couple of unhelpful comments. And rest assured that I will not hesitate to close this thread or remove it entirely if the conduct within it goes sour.

Proceed with the utmost caution.

Pavlos Symeon · March 25th, 2008, 02:33 PM

Unfortunately this is not an isolated incident.
There is a pattern that has to be dealt with in proper manner.

Greg Patch · March 25th, 2008, 02:53 PM

Is Prime Support something extra that you've paid for. Is there an equivalent version for US support?

Gerald Loidl · March 25th, 2008, 03:27 PM

Prime support is included whenever you buy an EX1 here in Europe. You buy it automatically with the camera.

Steven Thomas · March 25th, 2008, 03:48 PM

I understand Gerald's frustration, but I do agree with Chris. This type of thread can really get out of control and turns it into something know one wants to be involved in.

Sony has not offically commented on the back focus issue or firmware upgrade. My guess is they are waiting until they have a better understanding on how they plan on dealing with this issue and rolling it out to the field.

Michael Mann · March 25th, 2008, 04:00 PM

Unfortunately there is no equivalent version for US support in Europe - for European users prime support is a must.

Pavlos Symeon · March 25th, 2008, 04:02 PM

Nonetheless we have a professional camera that since its debut in over 4 months exhibits problems in many production units. Every month we realize, as we go on using the camera, new problems. Thing is that no one knows what lies ahead and probably that's why people exhibit their loss in faith. I know that SONY like many of us EX1 owners isn't happy with the situation.
Fact remains that everybody hopes that answers will come up shortly.

Michael Mann · March 25th, 2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavlos Symeon

Nonetheless we have a professional camera that since its debut in over 4 months exhibits problems in many production units.

Is this only a very small fraction/percentage of production units showing these problems or is it more like one cam out of three?

Pavlos Symeon · March 25th, 2008, 04:27 PM

Nobody except SONY (and this could take some time) is able to give a percentage. I could bet though that there are a lot of folks that haven't realized that their cameras might exhibit those problems. I know from myself. I had to conduct the testing in order to find out what was wrong. For a whole month I was shooting only interviews (with fixed focal length) so I could mot realize the backfocus problem. I know that when I would have to shoot outside it would be a matter of a few shoots until I realized that something is not right. Another thing is that I was under the impression that fixed (not removable) lenses do not exhibit backfocus problems. My bad.

March 25th, 2008, 12:04 PM	#1
Gerald Loidl Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austria Posts: 122	Dissatisfied with Sony Prime Support When you buy a new EX1 here in Austria you get 2 years of "Prime Support" with your purchase from Sony. My camera still has the backfocus problem although it was upgraded to the new firmware version. The camera was sent in 2 times so far and spent 5 weeks at the repair shop so far, and the issue was not fixed at all. A Sony sales representative wanted to exchange my camera last week only to find out that the camera has the same issue... I got a loaner camera from prime support 5 weeks ago - it also has the backfocus issue as well, but at least it works with ND off which my "repaired" camera doesn´t. When I asked for another loaner camera they just said that they do not have any left. Sony says they do not know how to repair my camera and that they do not have any replacement cameras or working loaner cameras they can give me. The Prime Support contract clearly says that they have to provide me with a working loaner camera. Today Prime Support called me and they demanded their loaner camera back!!! I said "no way" as I would not have any usable camera then. The lady got very unfriendly then and threatened me, that they would send me a bill for the loaner camera, if I refused to turn it back!!! Is that the customer support I have to expect as a professional customer?? They say they cant repair mine and do not offer any solution for me! If this situation is not resolved soon I will call a lawyer - this really can´t be true! This is the worst customer service I ever experienced. The sales representative from Sony Austria tries to resolve this issue now - he also has my camera at the moment and handed it over to his technicians. Sorry for venting! Gerald

March 25th, 2008, 02:16 PM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Just a reminder to please keep these proceedings tactful and professional please. If all you want to do is "vent," start your own blog and vent. That's not what this site is for. Please be very careful and civil in your choice of words here. Thanks in advance, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 25th, 2008, 02:28 PM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	As long as it's information, and not frustrated ranting. There is a right way (that is, a polite and reserved way) to discuss these matters and get them resolved. Since this site embodies my own professional reputation, I am very particular about the way things are said here. I have already edited this thread's title and have withdrawn a couple of unhelpful comments. And rest assured that I will not hesitate to close this thread or remove it entirely if the conduct within it goes sour. Proceed with the utmost caution. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 25th, 2008, 04:00 PM	#12
Michael Mann Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kelkheim, Germany Posts: 375	Unfortunately there is no equivalent version for US support in Europe - for European users prime support is a must. __________________ Michael

March 25th, 2008, 01:13 PM	#2
George Kroonder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Utrecht, NL \| Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 612	Hi Gerald, First off, you should expect and get a good camera. And Sony (and especially your reseller) are responsible for provideing you with one. However if I read your message correctly, your own cam is back from "repair" and you still have the "loaner cam". This is where things go bad, as Sony expects you to return the loaner after your own cam is returned, or they'll invoice you (for list!). You cannot hold the loaner "hostage" but you could try to convince them to pickup your cam again for repair and to keep the loaner. That is, if you feel they'll be able to fix it... Maybe the best thing is to speak to a Sony regional manager (through your reseller) and work out a solution. I would go for a replacement. If you were a consumer (not a business) you could actually return it to the reseller for replacement under European legislation. Unfortunately (well in this case anyway) this is not the case for business-to-business sales. If you feel no amicable solution is possible you could go the legal route and start with a "notice of default" (Inverzugsetzung). Sometime this alone is enough to get the focus back on your problem. Primarily your reseller is responsible for providing you with a working solution. Hope this helps. George/ P.S. Nice Cadillacs!

March 25th, 2008, 01:42 PM	#3
Gerald Loidl Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austria Posts: 122	George, thanks for your tips! You are right I cant hold the camera hostage. The Prime Support contract says that you can keep the loaner camera until you are fully satisfied with the repair and you have up to five days to test the repaired camera after it was returned from repair. My camera is now at Sony in Vienna for evaluation of the problem, so I don´t have it here. If I send the loaner back I would not have any camera at all! They also said that they do not know how to fix my camera and a solution could take a while. I can´t afford not to have a camera at all as the next rental house is too far away and I have to earn some money. cu, Gerald PS: thanks for the props on my cars

March 25th, 2008, 02:03 PM	#4
Pavlos Symeon Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 48	Gerald, You are right 110% and I can relate to your problem since I had both my EX1s send to the Netherlands for backfocus/vignetting adjustment. I have also talked to Nina and Annie only to realize how unprofessional PRIMESUPPORT is as well. Lots of indications point to this direction. 1. When I called them (in UK) there was a party going on in the background and they had to put me on hold because they couldn't hear what I was telling them. What kind of "local store" is this? 2. A week after I sent the cameras and there was no confirmation or receiving them. I had to email them twice in order to find out that the cameras had arrived in Holland. 3. What kind of attitude is this, "we don't know what is wrong with your camera?" Well my dear friends at SONY you better find out soon cause hell is breaking lose soon. You are the professional division and answers like this are unacceptable. We don't play with those cameras. We make a living. 4. After the supposed repair of the camera don't they check it out to find if the problem was corrected? It's a five minute procedure. Do they prefer to deal with resending empty boxes and cause anguish to their clients instead. Unacceptable, period. I am venting and imagine I haven't gotten my cameras back yet (fixed or not fixed it doesn't matter) Gearld keep us posted. Who knows, we might have to take a coordinated action.

March 25th, 2008, 02:23 PM	#6
Gerald Loidl Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austria Posts: 122	Chris, I basically fully agree with you. I think that this information can be very helpful for other EX1 owners though. This way they can get some info on what they can expect from the companies customer support should they run into problems.

March 25th, 2008, 02:33 PM	#8
Pavlos Symeon Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 48	Unfortunately this is not an isolated incident. There is a pattern that has to be dealt with in proper manner.

March 25th, 2008, 02:53 PM	#9
Greg Patch Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 181	Is Prime Support something extra that you've paid for. Is there an equivalent version for US support?

March 25th, 2008, 03:27 PM	#10
Gerald Loidl Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Austria Posts: 122	Prime support is included whenever you buy an EX1 here in Europe. You buy it automatically with the camera.

March 25th, 2008, 03:48 PM	#11
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	I understand Gerald's frustration, but I do agree with Chris. This type of thread can really get out of control and turns it into something know one wants to be involved in. Sony has not offically commented on the back focus issue or firmware upgrade. My guess is they are waiting until they have a better understanding on how they plan on dealing with this issue and rolling it out to the field.

March 25th, 2008, 04:02 PM	#13
Pavlos Symeon Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 48	Nonetheless we have a professional camera that since its debut in over 4 months exhibits problems in many production units. Every month we realize, as we go on using the camera, new problems. Thing is that no one knows what lies ahead and probably that's why people exhibit their loss in faith. I know that SONY like many of us EX1 owners isn't happy with the situation. Fact remains that everybody hopes that answers will come up shortly.

March 25th, 2008, 04:27 PM	#15
Pavlos Symeon Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 48	Nobody except SONY (and this could take some time) is able to give a percentage. I could bet though that there are a lot of folks that haven't realized that their cameras might exhibit those problems. I know from myself. I had to conduct the testing in order to find out what was wrong. For a whole month I was shooting only interviews (with fixed focal length) so I could mot realize the backfocus problem. I know that when I would have to shoot outside it would be a matter of a few shoots until I realized that something is not right. Another thing is that I was under the impression that fixed (not removable) lenses do not exhibit backfocus problems. My bad.