Ex1 or Ex3 purchase decision...
 

I just sold my two V1's and I am ready to enter the EX world. My question is the EX1 now, or wait for the EX3?

I shoot for 2 or 3 months each year in a remote location, and usually sell my cameras after the shoot - it works for me as I never get attached to equipment and hate to see them unused for 9 months while I work in post. However, with the EX1 this will change and I intend to spend more time on filming other projects. I also need to use second lenses - so it's the Letus on the EX1 or step up to the EX3 for double the money. I intend to make the EX my only camera for some time, so yes, I will get attached to this new baby!

I can afford the EX1 now and If I wait for the EX3, I know I have to find the extra cash - so is the Ex3 worth waiting for? I better make a purchase soon before I spend this on changing my car.

Read Phil Bloom's review, it pretty much covers everything. Interchangeable lenses are boviously big difference and if you need 'em then it's an obvious choice. But things like the EVF being better and the variable frame rates on the body instead of menu is nice too. Other minor but nice touches mentioned in review too. But it's a lot more money.
Steve

Phil Bloom makes a great case for stepping up to the EX3. Apart from the detachable lenses however, most of the differences from the EX1 are design modifications right? Shape, menu, viewfinder etc... That's quite a high price to pay for mods that really should have been thought of at the EX1 stage IMHO.

I will hold out for a month or two and see what develops - maybe we will see more aggressive pricing on the EX1 now.
Thanks.

One not so minor thing though is the viewfinder, on the EX1 it's atrocious. If it's much better on the 3 then that'd be reason enough to buy one>
Steve

Basically if you don't need the fancy outs the EX3 provides, do live, multicam shoots or want to use interchangable lenses, the EX1 is the more obvious choice.

By all accounts it works well and if you can have the Letus attached permanently that is all the better. You then (obviously) also gain the use of different (35mm) lenses. A complete 35mm rig is not something that really excells in handheld/shouldermount shooting; the EX3 with a set of lenses may be a better choice for that.

It will take some time for the EX3 accessories "after market" to work itself out. In the first 6 month you're really pioneering. This is something to consider.

With the EX1 you have a great upgrade path and they're going to be in demand for the next couple of years at least, so if you want to trade up to an EX3 at some point that should be pretty painless.

George/

I have always found viewfinder's lousy to use and the EX1 is no exception as I expected. I agree, if the EX3 overcomes this it's a big plus.

I doubt anyone could see a difference in the final image between them, and that's what counts. The EX3 will probably improve your shots though - with DOF ability in the EX line-up, accurate focus is essential.

I think the next few months will be interesting on the EX1 - 3 debate.

I'm one of those that just about always has to have the latest greatest (if I see marked improvement) and this is one of those rare situations where I'm not overwhelmed with the compulsion to upgrade. When the first leaks came out that the EX3 was going to be announced and the pictures first hit the web I was already thinking I was going to be selling my EX1, I actually wrote my Sony dealer telling him as much. With that said, once I had some hands on with it at NAB I was somewhat disappointed. Yes, the viewfinder is awesome, and as one of my primary cameras in the past was a Canon Xl2 with a monochrome viewer I loved it. But that and the few other tweaks they've made to me simply do not justify it's price point. In my mind it is just not worth double the EX1. To me I want to know that I'm going to be getting better images from a new camera and in this situation that's not necessarily the case. Some could argue that a better viewfinder could mean it's easier to get better shots and I'd agree, but again, not a 6 or 7 thousand dollar difference.

I believe its been said in other words that the interchangeable lenses on the EX3 won't make 35mm adapters obsolete, so again, while nice, not a must have (to me).

The dial for overcranking and undercranking is great, but that's more a matter of convenience. While I loath the menu system on the EX1 in this regard, I can deal with it.

The outputs and timecode might be a need for someone, for me they're by and large irrelevant.

Another minor thing that was somewhat off putting was the new door for the SxS cards, it just felt flat out flimsy. While the slide on the EX1 is nice and sold, the new one kind of pops open and just dangles from a tether. This was presumably the solution they developed to accommodate their announced drive. It seemed to me a bad concept that was poorly implemented. Just disappointing to discover.

With all that said, if money was no object then the added bells and whistles are nice and might be enough to lure me in. It's not that I hated it or didn't like it, but they improvements were just insufficient enough for me to be jonesing for it. Not when I could have two EX1's for about the about the same money.

- Ray

The EX3's at NAB were all pre production units. I was told the door will be better made in the production units. I prefer the opening door over the sliding hatch.

The EX1 is an excellent run and gun or grab and go camera. Very portable, small and compact and as we all know produces excellent images.

The EX3 is substantially bulkier and not quite as portable. But it offers great flexibility with the ability to take all kinds of lenses so it will be good for those doing sports or wildlife. The additional connectivity will also make it well suited to studio use.

The EX3 is more flexible but at the cost of added bulk. If you need the flexibility then go for the EX3, if you don't then save your money and get an EX1.

I have the EX1 and use the LCD for all my focus needs and it works great! I wish the EVF was better for sure but it really can only be used for framing. However, it seems getting a hood for the LCD would be the best option. Unless I am missing something the EX3 does not have a true EVF, it is just utilizing the LCD screen that the EX1 already has so the amount of cost increase is kind of unfounded at least for these Mod features if you will.

Jason, as far I'm aware the EX3 does use the LCD to double as an EVF, by using what's basically a hood with a small magnifier in it - get the feeling it'll work well and provide the best of both world - the sharpness of the LCD with the magnification and lightproofness of an EVF. Good design, basically the same as Sony's highend C35 eyepiece as used on the Phantom HD.
Steve

Steve, yes I agree that is how I understand it but my hope is a third party may be able to engineer a similar device for the EX1...Not to shoot down the efforts of the DIY crowd who have already created their own...I may do that has well if nothing comes out... For me the EX3 Modification differences so to speak do not justify the added cost... just my 2 cents.

In a sensible world surely Sony would do one, after all they've just done the R&D with it for the EX3, surely just a tiny alteration to fit it to EX1 LCD? Don't hold your breath! I suppose you could order the eyepiece unit for the EX3 as a spare/repair part when it comes out, but again knowing Sony they'll probably say you can only order it as a complete unit with the LCD screen and it'll be £1700! If you could get the eyepiece, which'll just be a bit of plastic with a cheap optic, it should be easy to manufacture a simple hinge to put it on EX1 screen.
Steve

Given the ongoing back focus problems with the EX1 my feeling is that the interchangeable lens mount on the EX3 could be a negative feature. It doesn't look as solid as a PL or B4 mount, it appears to be only plastic.

This would be one of my top concerns and for not rushing out as an early EX3 adopter. I'd be surprised if Sony would not do diligence on this particular issue for the EX3. Please say it ain't so!! But who knows? As mentioned above, "don't hold your breath."

I suppose that one of the reasons of the increase in prize is the fact that the lens mount is a decent one, and not a cheap piece of plastic...

If not, then it's even more outrageous to pay $12.000 for that thing!

I took the lens off of the EX3 at NAB (and then Sony Reps descended on me and took the camera away from me). I was hoping to find the secret of the EX1 backfocus problem by examining the internal ND filters of the EX3.

The mount is definitely all-metal, but felt more "die cast" or stamped than finely machined. It was definitely not as sturdy or precise as a PL or Panavision mount, but was stronger and nicer than, say, a Nikon mount. The design is quite unusual because of the mount's versatility - the flange depth is almost zero, allowing many optical options.

The pin for releasing the bayonet seemed rather crude (it was like a zoom lever) but then this was a pre-release camera. I am sure the final package will be quite a bit slicker.

Just to chime in...

The camera at two times the price of an EX1 is too expensive....

The price of this Cam needs to come down...

unlike b4 mounts the ex3 lens has no mechanical adjustment to fiddle with so i can't see it making any difference to the ex1 backfocus.

The new firmware that Sony install when you send your camera back apparently fixed the back focus issue. The proper firmware update that will be done by users won't be out until early Autumn when the 32gb cards come out.

Hard to imagine how a firmware update can influence back focus, what am I missing here?
Steve

No way I'm paying double price for the same sensor size, I'll give up my EX1 only when/if half inch EX will be out;
:-)

At least for the EX1 the camera talks to the lens to compensate for ND. For this it uses a single Look Up Table (LUT) with corrections for the ND positions.

In the EX1 with firmware prior to 1.05 this correction data is incorrect, resulting in BF problems at one or more ND settings. This aparently differs per camera.

A FB Adjustment function is present in the service menu to "rewrite" the LUT, which can be used (sparingly) as a workaround. With FW 1.05 the adjustment should result in correct backfocus at all ND positions.

I have no specific information about the EX3 mount and how you will be able to adjust BF. Hhowever I expect it to be similar to the Z7/Z270 which have a similar menu-driven auto adjustment feature in the user menu as found in the EX1 service menu but includes "manual" adjustment as well (it's actually more like semi-automatic).

George/

Phil.
Is this a definate ?
IE from a reliable source. I'm quite happy with my self fixed backfocus,although i wouldn't mind having the latest firmware, i've got V1.02.

Paul.

Philip is a reliable source ;)

But no release schedule is ever to be relied on.

Aparently a FW update is needed to support he new 32GB cards and harddisk unit, so Sony has to make it available around the release to be able to sell these things. That is always a good motivator for companies.

What other goodies will be in this release is unclear, but it's really unlikely to be a step back from 1.05.

George/

Yeah i know Phil is a relialble source, i just meant was his source reliable.

Paul.

Ditto, and Amen.

Let us all hope it was!

For the price that is being asked for the EX3, it should at the minimum
have, 2/3 sensors and 422 color, if not 444 color...

Well there is an HD camera that is 4:2:2 with 2/3" CCDs for the price of an EX3. But you have to decide whether you want SD sensors or Full 1920x1080 HD sensors.

Ray...the price being asked (street price will be around 10k), is cheap. 2/3 sensors, 422 colour (444? really?) removable lens, full HD sensor? Then look at the PDW700 that is a hell of a lot more than 10k.

Also don't forget this is a small camera. Not a full size camera. Which is advantageous for so many reasons.

I have just placed my order for one. I can't wait!

What I don't understand is the lens offered with the EX-3 is the same as the EX-1.

IMHO, they should have offered a longer lens with the EX-3 to separate it from the EX-1.

That way you justify it as a compliment to the EX-1.

Right now it looks like a larger EX-1 that costs $4,000 more.

I realize that one could purchase a separate lens, but to be honest, that would take the camera out of its price class.

i guess that would require getting fujinon to make another lens. Quite a cost which would have bumped up the price even more.

It is the same with a lot of cameras. The glass often costs more than the bodies. The cheaper the camera the more likely that will be. High quality 22 x 2/3" HD glass with extender costs 2 and a half times more than an HPX500.

To get the same lens for 1/2" that would fit the ex3 and my f350 i would need to spend about £10,000. I have a 20x Canon without extender for my F350 that will work my EX3 already so I am lucky but that in itself cost £5500 and it is far from best lens out there!

Hey Phil, your thinking the same as me. Not sure what the KH20 will look like on the EX3 though, have you tried it yet?

As for the stock Fujinon lens, here's my take. The higher the zoom ratio the harder it is to keep CA and other aberrations under control. I'de much rather have a good quality selection of medium range zooms than a single mega zoom that suffers from CA, distortion and soft edges. Yes it would be nice to get the same quality but with a higher zoom ratio but I wouldn't want to sacrifice quality over zoom range. I think the stock lens is a remarkably good and flexible lens.

As Phil says the EX3 is still remarkable value. I bet an EX3 with the stock lens recording to a Convergent nano XDR could give pictures that will be very very close to those produced by a 700 with an average lens.

Don't forget your not just paying for the materials that go to manufacturing a camera but also the R&D. Perhaps the problem is not that the EX3 is too expensive, maybe the problem is that the EX1 is too cheap.

That camera you're referring to would be the one and only HPX500. That is a tough decision between the two.
Which is preferable, 2/3" pixel-shifted SD chips or 1/2" HD CMOS? P2 or SxS? If anyone has done a side-by-side picture comparison, please voice your opinions.

I'd take either over an EX1. Shoulder-mount cameras are a must for my style of shooting. The price upgrade from an EX1 to an EX3 is well worth it for the convenience of shoulder-mount and removable lenses.

Plus, all 3 cameras should be acceptable for full-acquisition for Discovery HD programs. I've never even came close to producing a D-HD program, but the ability to have the right gear is a nice bonus.

This is an area where I am not quite a believer.

IMHO, the EX-3 is a quasi-shoulder mount camera. It might function well, but it looks a bit akward to me sort of like the Canon XL series. Just looks like a lot of arm support would be needed to hold the camera as it looks quite front heavy.

Having used an EX3 for a day I can confirm that it is front heavy BUT, its not nearly as bad as it looks. I would much rather hold an EX3 on my shoulder with one hand than try to hold an EX1 in front of me with two hands any day.

I'm quite sure we'll see battery mounts for Anton Bauer or Sony V lock that will put the battery (and Flash XDR) off the back of the EX3 thus balancing the whole rig.

We know the EX1 is approved by Discovery HD, I would guess the EX3 would also get approval. Anyone know if the HPX500 is approved?

According to the specs it's approved (2/3" chips, 100 mb/sec), and by BBC too. But it seems that Discovery may (quite sensibly) look at individual cameras.
Steve

Just checked and according to the information I have the HPX is not currently approved for 100% acquisition, it is in the Bronze category along with HDV and the HVX200.

That would be for Discovery HD, not BBC HD, correct?

Phil Bloom said the XDCAM EXs are approved for 100% Silver acquisition for Discovery HD. I'd call him a reliable source.

Yes that is just for Discovery HD. The BBC's current guidelines specify 1920x1080 native for acquisition on all new commissions and future programming. Having said that the BBC NHU are still using varicams for many programmes.

It's my opinion that almost all future HD programming will require native 1920x1080 cameras. A year ago full HD TV's were rare, now the are much more common. In a few more years the vast majority of HD TV's will be full HD. As TV's get bigger and bigger and the resolution gets higher the difference between 720 and 1080 will become more and more apparent. Admittedly resolution isn't everything but it is a significant part of the HD experience.

Alister,
How did the HPX fail Discovery HD's guidelines? It can shoot DVCPRO HD 100mbps, 4:2:2 color, 2/3" chips, 1080 or 720, what failed it? Was it the SD chips? Was the camera specifically mentioned by name?
I read in another forum where a poster had shot a docu with the HPX and it was accepted by D-HD.

I don't know why but according to my sources it is listed in the Bronze category. The most recent guidelines list many specific cameras in some of the categories. Discovery HD do now specify that all new commissions should be shot 75% 1920x1080. You can however apply for permission to use non-approved equipment. The guidelines are for commissions, I suspect that the rules for buy-ins will be different, probably on a show by show basis.