Tripod Fixing on EX3
 

I am very concerned about the tripod fixing on the base of my new EX3. It only has a single small ¼ inch dia. screw to hold this large camera to the tripod. When fitted to my Manfrotto 503 head using the standard quick release plate (501 PL Slide Plate) I find that the camera vibrates from side to side in a light wind when outside, resulting in unstable video images especially when on telephoto. Also the fixing screw worked loose after a short period of use.

I have now carefully examined the base of the camera and am very concerned that this single screw which is only screwed in a few threads will shear off or pull out and allow the camera to drop off of the tripod. The small rectangular fixing block in the base of the camera appears to be fixed to the camera chassis by 4 very small screws which also concerns me.
The surrounding plastic base area appears (by gently pressing) not to be load bearing other than 4 small raised blobs (2 at front and 2 near rear corners) which when the camera is set on a flat surface make contact and stabilise the camera.
I use both miller DS20 and Manfrotto 503 (501 similar fixing) Fluid Heads with plates approx. 95mm x 40mm wide. These in my opinion are not large enough to spread the load on the camera base and probably the reason why the camera was unstable and the screw worked loose in field use.

To help this overcome this I have made up an adapter plate that sits between the tripods quick release plate and the camera base. This plate is approx. 120mm long and 70mm wide and 3mm thick (could be thicker)

The load is now spread more evenly across the camera’s base onto the main centre fixing and the 4 outer corner spots. The screw now keeps much tighter and the camera is now much more stable with less force on the fixing screw. However I am still very worried that with only one small fixing screw for a camera of this size and weight that one day the camera will end up falling to the ground and Sony telling me its not their problem. The camera is sold with the options to fit larger lens units, hard drives, bigger batteries, lights, mics, etc. I feel that someone at Sony seems to have forgotten about how this ¼ inch screw will take the strain out in the field. To me the camera fixing is of poor design not suitable for the EX3 camera.
My advice - if you move the camera while its fitted to your tripod make sure you keep it upright because if you carry them at an angle you will be lucky if does not shear off. Best to remove the camera before moving tripod location if you can. Also may be best to avoid any artistic shots that require moving the camera sideways (side tilt) on the tripod head – keep it upright!.

Have not seen this EX3 issue before on the forum so would welcome your experiences and thoughts also has any one any similar problems with the lighter EX1.

Many Thanks

Not a problem for Sony, I guess.
 

This really sounds like a problem with the plate design that came with the head. I believe that there are a few after-market options for fitting a screw and pin arrangement and I would check with the head manufacturer first. Certainly my Miller DV20 Solo has the double arrangement.

However......, I will still be purchasing a separate plate and adapter next week when I collect the remainder of my gear from NY. This will mitigate the issue of small plate area which, as you say, is likely to induce a shearing effect on the screw, even if it doesn't completely eliminate the leverage effect and could, in fact, be said to accentuate it albeit indirectly. If you feel you need this you might look out for plates like Panasonics SHAN-TM700 or Sony's own VCT-U14 (half the price). It's not a cheap solution. Meant for larger cameras, you will need an adapter plate such as one offered by Protech (ST-1) to fix to the bottom of the camera so it can attach to the larger, much longer plate.

I have seen photos on the web of folk like Steve Cahill and Phil Bloom use such an arrangement to good effect (Phil can be seen using this set-up on the DS20 head too).

[PS - even though I have recommend Protech twice in a day, I'm not connected in any way - just noticed their gear might help bridge the gap between the EX series and pro-size cams].

I think the design of the tripod boss on the EX3 is terrible. Such a shame on an otherwise excellent camera. The shape of the base of the camera is bad as it curves upwards away from the tripod mount. Anyone using heavy lenses will find it difficult to get stable. I'm using an adaptor the has integral matt box bars so the camera is supported by both the lens and tripod mount. This is much more stable.

Yep, I agree, I noticed this when I first got the camera and thought it odd. I use a Manfrotto quick release slide plate on top of a Libec LS37 and it now seems to work OK though. Another one for Sony to fix for the EX5 (along with a stowable/fold away LDC for more compact bag carrying and a better SxS door, i.e. one that fits tightly flush/is less likely to be ripped off!)...Otherwise, an EXCELLENT camera from my use/opinion of it so far. Getting some stunning stuff! We filmed a vetinary operation with it today for a major client. Blood and guts in full 1920x1080. Definitely a Certificate Parental Guidance that one's going to be!

I agree - the curving front of the base seemed very peculiar. I'm building a new mount entirely, but as a stop-gap I added smaller rubber feet (like for the bottom of electronics) on either side and just forward of the tripod receptacle. In this way, when I screw the adapter plate on the bottom of the camera, these rubber feet compress holding everything tightly. This also helps to prevent and lateral movement which can loosen the screw.

Thanks for all your comments.
What ever method/adaptor plate we use to fix the camera to a tripod and improvements we may make the fact still remains that the camera is only held in place by one small screw. The camera needs 2 well spaced fixing points then I would be much happier.

Except that they new mount I'm building will actually connect to the tripod mount as well as the two screw holes at the rear - three points in all.

A sleek fitted base with multiple 1/4 20 holes that screws into the EX3 tripod base and the rear mounts would be a good seller I think. I'll buy one from you :)

Interesting Idea Ted to use the extra 2 (approx 3mm dia.) holes at the rear under the shoulder pad this should help reduce lateral movement. Perhaps when you have made it you could post a picture. By the way what are these 2 small threaded holes for? and will using these invalidate any warranty? Thanks

The holes are for the cheek pad... that most folks don't use...

Good idea to use them... I sure we'd all like to see pictures of the plate...

Well, it isn't built yet!! The dilemma was to provide a shoulder-mount and tripod mount base all in one that would collapse easily without removing gear for storage. Also, it needed to be balanced somewhat for both duties.

In shoulder-mount duty, center of gravity is near the SxS slots - right near your chest. This isn't perfect, but it's a huge improvement.

In tripod duty, with the shoulder portion collapsed, the center of gravity moves to very near the tripod mount.

Oh, and the handle at the front is removeable - 1/4x20 threads - and top portion of it is a zoom controllor (libec, bebob, etc.) so you can zoom and support right-handed and leave the left free for everything else.

I'm just still designing and obtaining all the parts needed, but I do have a few images!

Enjoy...

(here's a short video also - but the pad is different) http://vimeo.com/1685711

Have spoken to Sony re the Tripod fixing and was told the camera could not be modified to give additional 1/4in fixing points in the base. Also told camera was probably designed mainly for hand held users. When advised of my concerns re camera falling off due to screw failure. I was advised to take care when fitting and using on tripod as any damage would not be covered by warranty.
I see there is another post asking about fixing to a monopod, my response would be 'this cameras too heavy for a single screw don't even think about it'.

I have been told that Sony are very aware of the issue and are investigating various options, including the possibility of changing the bottom of the camera housing. No decisions have been made but I think there will be a modification available some time in the future or an adapter plate that will spread the forces across more of the camera base.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. As long as the plate fits the full length of the base of the EX3, and the plate also has a rubberised surface for high friction, it will be fine for normal use. If you use it like a cricket bat you might break it.
I have mine mounted on a Steadicam Flyer-LE, and it mounts quite solidly. Yes it could be better, and if Sony had spent 10 seconds to think about it they could have done that easily, but it's not too bad.

This is what needs to be done. My concern is not so much that there's only one 1/4" screw holding the camera plate onto the tripod plate it what's holding that diecast plate to the camera. It appears to be only 4x 2mm CSK screws. The ones holding what appears to be an indentical part onto many other Sony cameras work loose over time. I'd also add we've had a number of much lighter cameras' (HC7, A1) bottom assemblies crack from the stress.
Some of the Miller release plates have two raised rubber inserts. They miss the tripod attachment plate on the bottom of all Sony cameras and as noted it gets worse with the EX3 due to the curve in the molding. As the 1/4" bolt is tightened the force is being exerted in a manner that's trying to rip the mounting plate out of the camera thanks to the two rubber inserts.

EX-3 camera reinforcing plate
 

There is a product that exists here in Toronto that is well engineered and it's available right now. I used it for a shoot and it solved a lot of issues that have been discussed.
Yes, the camera mount on the small EX cameras is held in place by 4 small screws and you wouldn't believe the thin internal plate that they are attached to. Perhaps it's part of the design to have the 1/4 inch mount shear off to prevent further damage when a camera is knocked down. A rental house (Joe Sutherland Rentals Inc. - Canada's Premier Supplier of High Tech Video Equipment!) here had 2 EX-1 cameras come back damaged with those 4 screws ripped off. Joe Sutherland Rentals has the largest XDCAM rental inventory with over 70 XDCAM 330s,355s,530s, EX-3s and even the new 700. Joe asked the people at PCI (www.pci-canada.com) to make a camera reinforcing mount for the dozen EX-3 cameras that he has. He was concerned that the larger 2/3" lenses might create a potential problem with the mounts. He sketched out what he needed and the engineer at PCI built a strong, solid plate that is amazing. The EX-3 now can click on or off a tripod just like a regular camera with this mount. It's solid as a rock. It was built by the same people who make the HD heavy duty replacement handles with mounting holes for monitors, receivers, etc.( available at VFGadgets.com | Innovative Products for the Video & Film Industry ) They also make a mini HDV Handle Bracket for adding extra lights or transmitters to a mini camera.

I have been shooting since 1983 with full size cameras. The small cameras are awkward to hold as the design puts too much pressure on your wrist. The good news is that with this bracket, the EX-3 feels like a full size camera. Everything fits nicely for me. I have tried 3 brackets from different vendors but they did not work for me. I even bought an old film camera body mount to solve the comfort issue. This new bracket is the best thing that I have used and I recommend it highly. I took photos of the mount at Joe's shop to show the actual mount. There are a few extra units and you may be able to get them from PCI.

Peter Mykusz
HD Cameraman, Toronto

Where are the pix, Peter?

Listed?
 

Peter,

Are these PCI plates listed on their site? Curious to see the implementation. And cost!

Jus.

Photos of EX-3 Plate
 

I sent the photos to the gallery but they must be in line for approval, I guess. I'll try to resend them now.
The plate is new and PCI may not have set a price. I'll call them in the morning.

EX-3 Plate Photos
 

There are 4 photos of the camera plate on my personal network gallery. I have not been able to upload to the Image Gallery because I get a page saying that I don't have permission to access that page. Perhaps the moderator can insert my photos.

Here is a link to one of the photos.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/members/p...nd-rentals.jpg

I found out that the mount that I used was an early prototype as the black anodized paint was not applied to the one that I used. The people at PCI are still deciding on the final camera shoulder mount. The mount solves the issues of the questionable tripod mounting screw and adds a few new features to it. The photos show a practical, solid well engineered product. The most important feature is not that obvious. It transforms the small-awkward-to-hold camera into a solid camera that has the feel of a compact Betacam. It feels great on the shoulder because the battery adds weight to the back to balance the camera. The viewfinder is in the right spot for me. I'll send a few photos of the completed mount as soon as Joe Sutherland gets them.

I found out from PCI that they expect the items to be ready in "a couple of weeks."

I've asked them about adding a hinged section to support an AB or IDX battery - collapsable for storage, extendable to lower center of gravity and balance camera better. They are looking into it...

Here's an example...

I would suggest that having the shoulder mount so close to the camera body will lead to neck strain as you will have to tilt your head back to use the viewfinder. I think the shoulder mount needs to be further away from the camera body.

Alister,

I would have thought the same thing. However, I "built" two versions and actually found this to be much more comfortable. Because of the flexibility of the EX3's eyepeice, I can actually move it too far forward and find I need to bring it back a little. My last design, with the shoulder mount about four inches further back, was never comfortable and the eyepiece was never close enough and I had to lean into it.

Admittedly, we are all built differently, but I found this much more comfortable.

It would be great to have the ability to have rails. What if you want to a follow focus or matte box. And some kind of shoulder pad, looks great but hand holding that hard aluminum plate to your shoulder would last about 10 minutes, before it would dig into the bone...

And does anyone know where to find the plate parts (like the blue front plate and rear)?-for unrelated project.

EX-3 mount with rails
 

There is a version with rails. Here is the photo of the prototype
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/members/p...ade-camera.jpg
Alister - The mount was originally made to give the camera more stability so that the interchangeable lenses would not damage the 1/4 inch mounting screw. Joe Sutherland Rentals had 2 EX-1s come back damaged with the mount ripped out. Joe spent time on a sketch and talked with the people at PCI to make a heavy duty mount for the EX-3s. The result is a mount that is solid and snaps on to a regular camera plate. A "V" mount is on the back to take batteries or receivers. A standard tripod plate can be attached to it also. The shoulder mount is perfect with a camera pad velcroed on the plate. One of the cameramen who saw it thought that that it was a poor design until he put it on his shoulder. Now he wants one for his camera. The camera package feels very comfortable on the shoulder just like a standard full size camera - only lighter. There is no need for a hinge as per the drawing as you will hit someone in the head with a long back end. The mounts are in anodized black paint.
I hope that the photo shows up on this page. It works on my computer.

Thanks, Peter.

Yes, rails are available as the images show. Also, pads are an element that are necessary and would be part of the final product - just not sourced and therefore not shown. Thanks, Jason, for your attention to detail - I should have mentioned that.

Ted ...
 

Wonderful design ~ let me know if this comes off as I think I'd like to get one as well.

I wasn't putting the design down, It was just an observation. I have another one.... Are the matte box rails far enough away from the camera body. The very short body means that for many matte boxes and accessories the rails need to be at least 45mm below the camera body. The bracket looks to be very well constructed and I too would be interested in one if the design works well.

Thanks Peter,

Very cool!! Great work. That's basically problem solved. I think it great to see all the new products that are coming out, and in design, already, for this camera.

What is the lens height from base to center of the lens, with plate, does it get it close to a full size. Thinking of the compensation for a prompter being added to camera. If the rail adapter gets it close or the same, then very cool and no problem.. It just ends up being a little short and it would be great not to have to bother with the riser block that would be need on prompter plate, that is usually used to compensate to raise the height.

Doing a weekly show with two EX-3's and one is on the jib with prompter. And it would be one last thing to mess with, could just snap it on there, and go.

The EX3 mount - the BPB-EX3 - is available for purchase now. However, I'm sad to say that it won't include the hinged section that I've designed to located the battery further back. Furthermore, it seems that it is being sold without the shoulder pad - which I don't quite understand.

Oh, and you'll have to be doing pretty well in today's economoy to justify it. it has been priced at $575. But it is black!

EX3 Heavy Duty Base Plate | VFGadgets.com

Ah yes, and here comes the "Video and Film Equipment" mark-up. No thanks. Time for MacGyver to step in..

bit on the expensive side ...
 

Over priced for what it is!

spendy
 

I'll weigh in too - I was lined up to buy one... until I saw the price. Now I'm bound for my friend's garage and his welder.

I'm working with Jeff DeMaagd now (DM Accessories) and we'll try to put somthing together quickly. The differences?
- It would be based on my designs
- Includes a hinged section at the rear to both lower center of gravity and counterbalance the lens
- It would include padding for the shoulder

So, the question is, should it include the electronics (plate for Dionic 90 or IDX or SWIT) with a cable for the EX3? This will increase manufacturing costs substantially. Or, can it be left to the purchaser to add their preferred battery/mic system? Any thoughts?

Ted ...
 

Keep it simple ~ later if it really has an impact make all kinds of additions!

Stripped down version.
 

Having seen the VF price, I'd consider a stripped down version from you and Jeff. I would'nt always need the shoulder pads there or a hinged section since I already have some Zacuto gear for all that. A nice, stiff and strong (and light? Can the plates be machined/scooped out a bit?) 3-point plate is what I'm looking for.

Thanks for your enterprising spirit,

Jus.

Still unsure how your weight transfer will work, if you are using a Anton Bauer dionic it only weighs 1.7 pounds. And at the farther back position of the shoulder area, still seems a bit to far back. Even being in a lower position, it's still to light. Add the hand grips and there is more front weight.. Problem is still too front heavy. A full size brick that weighs close to 5 pounds would do it, though.
For me personally I (not being a matte box snob) like to have use of a matte box along with follow focus, for function and to help sell the camera to my clients who are used to having full size Cinealta's rigs and are afraid of seeing a smaller (consumer) looking cameras on the set. (Until they are sold on the beautiful images this camera can make of course).

Even with my rig, to make it center balanced I add a 3 lbs weight in rear audio bag that I made for it. And my shoulder pad area is almost under the camera. All this and its close to 18 to 20 lbs. Still 4 to 7 lbs lighter than full size, but I can rest the camera on shoulder and hold a balanced shot.
Here's my rig: http://i38.tinypic.com/24ywoaw.jpg

But the problem is I can't just click off the tripod and go hand held, I have to stop down pull camera and add shoulder pad to rails and then adjust everything.

If there was a way to simply snap in the shoulder mount below the plate (to have the shoulder pad under it, than behind) and no adjustment. would be cool. Here's a very crude drawing..http://i36.tinypic.com/30l2csh.jpg

I don't know... this a very tough nut to crack. For this camera to be universal to all, easy to put on sticks and pull off to run hand held (for some time) and add accessories and to be balanced as the larger counter parts, is a hard one..

Jason: I hadn't thought about turning the Indian matte box support around like that, but it is a good idea.

I look at many of these designs and I can't help but think the shoulder supports are too close to the VF. My eyes when I stand up straight are roughly in line with the front of my chest. Many of these home-brew shoulder mounts are placing the VF over the centre of the shoulder, so in use you must be leaning backwards and with long term use it's going to give you back or neck problems.

This isn't an easy nut to crack, and I've gone through a few prototype mounts. The EX3 is very front heavy, a situation made worse by the fact that the eyepiece cup is well to the rear of the camera. I'm not sure that without creating a 4ft long camera you can get it to balance comfortably on your shoulder, especially if you start adding heavier lenses or matte boxes. Certainly you can shift the center of gravity further back by putting some kind of V-Lock or AB mount to the rear of the camera, but it's always going to be front heavy.

Jason,

I've tested the arrangement in the latest design. My goal was to lighten the front of the camera as much as possible while adding as little weight as possible. That is why the battery extends so far to the rear. I actually sticks out about six or seven inches behind my back and counters the same amount of weight five or six inches in front of me. It's a considerable improvement. To completely "balance" the camera on your shoulder, it would require an additional three or four pounds (roughly) set on the back of the bracket that the A/B or IDX battery is attached to.

Also, though you could add them, I've removed the handle in this design due to wanting to reduce weight. Also, in this configuration, the cameras handgrip is quite comfortable.

This design can go from shoulder to tripod without adjustment, but the idea is that if you fold up the battery section, the weight of the camera is balanced over the tripod head. Folding down the battery secion moves the "balance" to your shoulder.

And, yes, rails can be added. The frontmost area of the bottom plate is where an extension could attach and onto which rails would mount. Below this attachment would be a new tripod mounting plate. So, now on rails, the center of gravity is raise a bit, but it makes for a quick transfer. Also, if using rails (with matte box, grips, focus, etc.) the front is much heavier. The battery folded down would be needed to balance on a tripod. Shoulder mount will just be heavy without further customization.

However, considering the replies of Justin and Dean, we'll probably start with a fairly simple yet effective design that is customizable as necessary. For those "handy" types, they could quite literally drill additional mounting holes and all whatever equipment they wanted once the main plate is in place.

Pics here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/941086-post21.html

Alister,

I've had the same misgivings as you, and the first time I considered this (two months ago or so) I rejected it outright because I imagined it would be terribly uncomfortable and an unnatural position. After several tests, however, I've changed my mind. Tucking the right hand closer to the chest alleviates a tremendous amount of the strain to the shoulder. Also, I have a tendance to sit and stand with my head more forward than I should - my posture is a little off. Despite this, I actually have to move the eyepiece closer to me in order to look through it. It is actually too far from my eye!

I understand that what worked for me might not work for everyone, and that it looks akward as a picture. I'm just saying that I was rather pleasantly surprised to learn that it could actually be tucked in a little tighter (if the camera allowed for it) before any discomfort or unnatural positions were introduced.