Fast paced music video at DVinfo.net

Darren Ruddock · October 20th, 2008, 11:13 PM

Hi there!

Read some stuff about image blockyness and "jello" look with the Ex1 if handheld. One person on here even said for fast paced stuff this is not a good camera at all!

This is slightly worrying as I am about to embark on a music video with lots of fast handheld work!

We are gonna shoot in 1080 25p.

Any suggestions for the best results?? Shutter speeds or any other settings?

Many thanks

Jon Sands · October 20th, 2008, 11:35 PM

I've never experienced any jellovision of blocking handheld, but If you want to be extra careful, shoot in 720p if you can. When shooting 1080p, its trying to fit almost 4x the amount of info in that same 35mbps codec. Like I said I've never actually ran into blockiness or artifacts while in 1080p, but shooting in 720p gives you much more headroom and bandwidth.

Jay Gladwell · October 21st, 2008, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Sands

I've never experienced any jellovision of blocking handheld, but If you want to be extra careful, shoot in 720p if you can. When shooting 1080p, its trying to fit almost 4x the amount of info in that same 35mbps codec. Like I said I've never actually ran into blockiness or artifacts while in 1080p, but shooting in 720p gives you much more headroom and bandwidth.

Jon, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that shooting at 720p gives a better image than shooting at 1080p?

Please explain.

Thanks!

Craig Seeman · October 21st, 2008, 08:14 AM

I really hate when people say "better."

Simple math, 720p24 vs 720p60 vs 1080p24 vs 1080p30 (insert 25 or 50 for PAL) - smaller frame size, fewer frames, same 35mbps VBR data rate. Result for 720p24 is more bits per pixel and frame.

That said, I usually shoot 1080p30. It really depends on what you're shooting.

720p60 or 1080i60 will give you greater temporal resolution (60 units per second) than 24p (24 units per second).

There is no "better" per se. You should in the mode that gives you the look you want or the resolution you need.

Sebastien Thomas · October 21st, 2008, 08:49 AM

On the other hand, shooting 720p is less defined as 1080p, first because it's smaller, then because the sensor is 1080. Going to 720p "squish" the image... I think I heard many people on this forum saying 720 was far less sharp.
I personaly only use 720p for slow motion.

I had only one problem when shooting in 1080p and it's a rolling shutter issue (This is general to all CMOS camera with the same technology as the EX1, including some really expensive camera).
This "problem" show up when the camera is moving REALLY quickly. For ex, the camera was mounted at the end of a long arm, fixed to the top of a moving car, on a scratchy road. The camera was shaking, so did the images. It was like distortion. Pure rolling shutter effect.

You will not face this kind of problem handheld, on a stead, or even in a car, an airplain or an helicopter. Just ensure the camera is not having vibrations.

Jay Gladwell · October 21st, 2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

I really hate when people say "better."

Simple math, 720p24 vs 720p60 vs 1080p24 vs 1080p30 (insert 25 or 50 for PAL) - smaller frame size, fewer frames, same 35mbps VBR data rate. Result for 720p24 is more bits per pixel and frame.

Sorry you don't like the word "better." Perhaps you'd prefer the word "advantageous" or "effective." In any case, the result is still the same--one method has to provide a better image than the other.

If your explanation is not implying that shooting that shooting at 720p (because of the math) provides a "better" image, then I don't know what it's saying--honestly. That's why I'm asking!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastien Thomas

On the other hand, shooting 720p is less defined as 1080p, first because it's smaller, then because the sensor is 1080. Going to 720p "squish" the image... I think I heard many people on this forum saying 720 was far less sharp.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

So which of the two approaches above will provide the better image of the two?

Sebastien Thomas · October 21st, 2008, 10:06 AM

Better image with the EX1 is 1080p.
now, your question implied shooting is a special ,hard condition. Let us know more about this condition so we can juge.
Whatever, I would go for 1080p, and 720p if in a need of real slow motion.

Darren Ruddock · October 21st, 2008, 03:20 PM

I was thinking whip pans and fast tracks

October 20th, 2008, 11:13 PM	#1
Darren Ruddock Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southend, UK Posts: 165	Fast paced music video Hi there! Read some stuff about image blockyness and "jello" look with the Ex1 if handheld. One person on here even said for fast paced stuff this is not a good camera at all! This is slightly worrying as I am about to embark on a music video with lots of fast handheld work! We are gonna shoot in 1080 25p. Any suggestions for the best results?? Shutter speeds or any other settings? Many thanks

October 21st, 2008, 08:49 AM	#5
Sebastien Thomas Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Paris, France Posts: 210	On the other hand, shooting 720p is less defined as 1080p, first because it's smaller, then because the sensor is 1080. Going to 720p "squish" the image... I think I heard many people on this forum saying 720 was far less sharp. I personaly only use 720p for slow motion. I had only one problem when shooting in 1080p and it's a rolling shutter issue (This is general to all CMOS camera with the same technology as the EX1, including some really expensive camera). This "problem" show up when the camera is moving REALLY quickly. For ex, the camera was mounted at the end of a long arm, fixed to the top of a moving car, on a scratchy road. The camera was shaking, so did the images. It was like distortion. Pure rolling shutter effect. You will not face this kind of problem handheld, on a stead, or even in a car, an airplain or an helicopter. Just ensure the camera is not having vibrations. __________________ DoP, Video/Camera assistant http://www.lecentre.net/blog

October 21st, 2008, 10:06 AM	#7
Sebastien Thomas Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Paris, France Posts: 210	Better image with the EX1 is 1080p. now, your question implied shooting is a special ,hard condition. Let us know more about this condition so we can juge. Whatever, I would go for 1080p, and 720p if in a need of real slow motion. __________________ DoP, Video/Camera assistant http://www.lecentre.net/blog

October 20th, 2008, 11:35 PM	#2
Jon Sands Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 107	I've never experienced any jellovision of blocking handheld, but If you want to be extra careful, shoot in 720p if you can. When shooting 1080p, its trying to fit almost 4x the amount of info in that same 35mbps codec. Like I said I've never actually ran into blockiness or artifacts while in 1080p, but shooting in 720p gives you much more headroom and bandwidth.

October 21st, 2008, 08:14 AM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	I really hate when people say "better." Simple math, 720p24 vs 720p60 vs 1080p24 vs 1080p30 (insert 25 or 50 for PAL) - smaller frame size, fewer frames, same 35mbps VBR data rate. Result for 720p24 is more bits per pixel and frame. That said, I usually shoot 1080p30. It really depends on what you're shooting. 720p60 or 1080i60 will give you greater temporal resolution (60 units per second) than 24p (24 units per second). There is no "better" per se. You should in the mode that gives you the look you want or the resolution you need.

October 21st, 2008, 03:20 PM	#8
Darren Ruddock Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southend, UK Posts: 165	I was thinking whip pans and fast tracks