MxR Expresscard/SDHC replacement for SxS site now open
 

Hi Guys,

We've put the site live as of, well about now actually, 3.00am here in Aussie-land.

We've had a very interesting time trying to get an ecommerce system running in three days, and after two ecommerce shopping carts couldn't handle our specific freight matrix, ( which we designed to give everyone a fair go) we decided just to make it as simple as we could to launch. So I'd like to apologise upfront for making a basic site, but we will enhance it as time and new products come along.


We're using Paypal shopping cart this time around, and hope Ronn Kilby will still talk to me. If only we could find an ecommerce site that can handle freight nicely from Australia...

We're still on track to be shipping the first 1000 cards next Friday, and a thousand a week after that, so there shouldn't be any shortage for the forseeable future.

I want to personally thank all those who have given their time and support to the project of SxS alternatives and this project in particular. I really hope we that we have turned the corner on affordable HD.

And now time for a Crown Lager, or two.

Best wishes.


Oops! the site is E-Films

I noticed that when ordering multiple cards the Quantity is listed as "1" although the total is for the requested number of cards.

That might confuse people.

I really hope this works out well. I wish I was in a position to order at the moment. I think I might be able to once the 32GB Sandisk cards start showing up.

-P

Best of luck guys.
I will be one of your future customers.

Very nice, just ordered, works no problem,
best of luck and thank you!

Hi Perrone,

Are you referring to these - SanDisk | Products | Imaging Cards | Ultra II SD Cards ?

They seem to be available or are you waiting for better pricing?

thanks ross
 

just put in my order for 5 of these babies! I look forward to receiving them when they start shipping next friday.

Thanks for keeping the dream of affordable memory for the ex series alive!

Greg

HQ mode?
 

I have read all 80+ pages of the SDHC thread, but I am still a little confused about one thing.

I realize there is a limit to overcranking, but will the combination (E-Films card + Sandisk Ultra 2 16G SDHC) handle 1080-24P in HQ mode?

Thanks.
Pete

I am waiting for someone to actually have them in stock and shipping. They've been "available" for months now but no one has any.

Do you need the updated firmware v1.1 for this or this that only for the 32G cards and the PHU whatever hard drive?

It's data rate, not frame size that determines the ability to use the cards. In HQ mode the EX is 35mbps regardless of frame size. Overcrank can demand a much higher data rate and Sony's implementation of USB Express card prevents limits those data rates. In other words ANY frame size/rate using 35mbps to record, should be supported.

For EX1 firmware 1.11 is required because that provides USB Express card support as used in Sony's EX Hard Drive recorder. EX3 should come with that support.

On SanDisk site there are already reviews for the 32GB cards so unless they're phony and permitted by SanDisk, somebody must have bought and received the 32GB cards from SanDisk. I do not see those cards listed at all on Amazon or B&H though. The reviews may be bogus because if you try to buy the card from SanDisk you get a "Not In Store" message and apparently can't even preorder them.

Congrats on getting this launched.

One note, in your video at 1:01 (inserting the adapter/card combo into the EX) the label appears upside down. Is that the actual label shipping on your unit, it looks like it might be temporary and peel off?

.......a

Exactly. I've been trying to order them for 2 months. No dice. Because of my business, I have to order from specific places (like B&H) and no one on my list has any. I gave up and ordered some 16GB cards this month for a job.

Ross you may want to put a Disclaimer statment on your site or ship with the card. We are not responsible for any lost data etc..etc

Thanks Ross, ordering was painless. Do you have an idea how long it will take for me to get the 2 cards to California? Thx.

Looking forward to a proper test/review of the card as soon as somebody gets one. Also - it would be interesting to hear what endurence tests Ross has done and for how long he has been running the card without errors. Don't want to order before I know that this actually is THE solution.

Great initiative!!!

I will be a BETA tester...
 

Just ordered 4...
I hope I get it by xMas?

Thanks,
Ross

Hope our troubles are over. Ordered 2. Thanks Ross.

Hi Pete,

We shoot in PAL down here in Australia (the country, not the movie), so we get 1080-25p not 1080-24p in our menu options. And it works fine with 1080-25p. But we will do some testing for completeness using NTSC today sometime.

One of the tests to see how much headroom an Expresscard reader/SDHC card has is to overcrank it as the amount of data being written in overcrank is higher than any of the standard data rates. If it works in overcrank, then it will hose it in for standard work.

When I was testing the Lexar SSD card it ran fine for SP mode, but it would throw a wobbly, when I went to HQ. So it has a pretty low data write rate compared to SDHC.

Hi Leonard,

Yes you definitely need the 1.11 update for the EX1.

I asked my Sony service centre to update the firmware and they told me it was going to cost AU$100, to do it. I mentioned that I was having some trouble with the audio, and he immediately said, well in that case we need to do the update under warranty.

I have heard elsewhere, that there are two fixes in the firmware update, one for audio, the other for people having problems with the Firewire port losing contact with a computer. Either qualifies, (or well at least did qualify) for a free update of firmware.

He did the update while I went and had a cup of coffee, he says it takes about 15min, but they like to check the camera before they hand it back.

Which reminds me, I must send him a Christmas card!

Hi Andrew,

Quite right, we had finished the Artwork, (which is much prettier) but not got the labels back when we shot the video, so I had to print that one up. I couldn't believe I got the label upside down. Must be because we are downunder!

Hi Brian,

Good point. I pass that along to our web content people. Say,... that's me! I better get on to it.

Thanks Brian

Hi Keith, the Express Courier usually takes 2-4 days. My real life experience with them, is that when I've sent packages to the US, and Europe, it's been 2-3 days at most. But never anymore than 4, and that was to Cebu in the Philippines, when I had to send DVD's to a client.

Mail at this time of the year is a little slower, but the product we are using is like a Premium version of Airmail, so it will get there in the 3-7 day range, although they quote 3-10. I've sent DVD's to London, Paris and Prague by airmail and they all got there in under 4 days. But as I say this time of the year...

Thanks Ross, I used the slower option, so probably will be New Years time. That's ok, it will be nice to not have to chop cards or have the cards sticking out.

Do any of these ExpressCards work in the Sony USB ExpressCard reader? So far, the Kensington and some generic ExpressCard adapters from Hong Kong don't register in the reader. I was hoping that the SDHC card could always stay in the ExpressCard adapter.

No they dont, due to the fact the current expresscard adapters are all using the USB spec and the Sony card reader, (like SxS cards) is using the PCI express spec..

bring on PCI expresscard adapters i say, i really want to be able to use them with my Sony Card reader.. i need faster transfer speeds!

Hi Ross,

Congrats on your new business and for potentially making a lot of camerapeople happy, including myself! But the reader is still somewhat 'beta' as you acknowledge yourself.

What kind of policy do you have concerning warranty?

Jeroen

Give Ross a break!
He came up with "work around tool" to save everybody some serious $$...
Why being finicky and ask about warranty? It's all there on the site.
This is kind of device (I am sure) not better or worse than any other Kensington or Delkin or... I would assume that if if you order it and it's not working out of the box, Ross would be willing to replace it. But asking for any other warranty for electronic device like this is just "chocking the guy who tried to help"... Come on! It's $35.00. Just couple of Starsucks coffees. Right?
I initially wanted 2. But, I ordered 4. I have 4 Ultra II now in Kensigton adapters. When Ross delivers, I will be able to close the door on my EX1. End of story. If one breaks while in use, I will spend another $35+shipping to get replacement. I will not ask for warranty replacement, because the price of the adapter pays off after only one day of using it on assignment (daily rental of SxS 16GB is $20-40, here in Toronto).
Get it?

Congrats Ross !

Before I order, please somebody explain to me the difference between the SDHC cards as specied for this Expresscard adapter, and the Compact Flash as used by the FlashXDR / NanoFlash recorders (like the 133X 32GB Transcend CF card). Sorry for this naive question; waiting patiently for the NanoFlash to be available, I didn't follow the other EX users reports on their great effort to device a cheaper alternative to the SxS card...

Even though I didn't follow the discussion (not to mention participating in it), I really appreciate the effort and cost of those of you who tried so many solutions, and Ross taking it in his own hands, and delivering what appears to be a perfect solution.

I suspect the SDHC and CF are totally different, but still would appreciate somebody confirming that, and explaining the difference in layman's terms. Because obviously, in the ideal world it'd be great to only have to buy and store one type of memory, for both MxR and NanoFlash recording. TIA!

What is the address of your law office? :-)
I guess people are entitled to ask questions even if you found them irrelevant from your point of view. And by the way, questions were addressed to Ross (if I am not mistaken).
I highly appreciate Ross’s efforts to help our community and yet I think it is appropriate to ask him about his return policy instead of speculating on his behave.
During last month I have returned about 5 Delkin cards from total of 10 bought. The main problem with all those cards is reliability of their miniature contacts. If those contacts have not been properly designed and carefully manufactured per design spec unit will fail. Believe me I know what I am talking about. And I guess you know what does it mean - failure in the field.

You're out of line, Steven. I'm asking a perfectly legitimate business question and you're acting unprofessional.
First of all, I congratulated Ross on his initative and did express the fact that I'm 'potentially happy'. Secondly, Ross is not Santa Claus, he's a businessman. I think his prices are fair but that's also smart business.
Thirdly, if I ordered two, which I want to, that would be 95 dollars. If by any chance it wouldn't work, I'd be out of what I consider a good amount of money plus the hassle. Even if he would accept returns: returning also cost money and time.
Besides, it's not a matter of money alone. If Ross guarantees his products, it means they are sufficiently tested for what he's selling it for (ie they work with the Sandisks).
I have 2 useless Delkins sitting here. That's at least 20 cups of Starbucks I won't be drinking...

If I buy something from a business, I'd just like to know if there's a warranty on their products. That's all.

So... to speak in your terminology: get it?

Hi Ola,

Thanks for the question.

I was very concerned about testing the cards to make sure they stand up to the rigours of our work. We videographers don't work in nice clean offices, and file our cards into well laid out drawers. Most of the videographers I know work in the rough and tumble of shooting on the run, (especially wedding videographers). We need to have equipment that will run first time every time. It's hard enough doing our job without worrying about whether our equipment may fail on us. I remember the first gig I did with the EX1 and the speeches went longer than I had planned for and the camera said it was going to switch cards, I was so excited to shoot with the camera, I hadn't even tested that before I took the camera out on the first shoot, I can tell you I nearly .... myself. It worked,... but the stress.

I had beeen playing around with Lexar SSD, and some generic cards which were rated as Class 6,but really were like Class 0.5 if you ask me. But what happened in testing them was I found a whole lot of limitations.

NB These aren't scientific measurements, this is me counting Mississippisp? one Mississippi two... and writing down the results and a bit of guesswork, along with the terrific work of Steve Thomas in particular.

My conclusions are what I found under my testing, but we did try these same tests in three EX1's.


1) How fast the card can go from button on, to button on, to button on again. A common enough situation. We hit the record button because something finished, but then something else happens. How fast can the camera start recording again. I found that slow cards took somewhere around 6-8 secs to finalise TOC (Table of Contents) and the Lexar 7-9 secs, as registered by the record light above the slot going from red to green. I found that I could go to record again with the SxS in about 2-4 secs. If the card cannot write it's table of contents then we get the "Media needs to be restored message". We haven't lost any data, but you will need to eject the card and reinsert to let it rebuild the TOC. Which can be difficult, or impossible if the other card is full, as the camera tries to swap to the other card to record on automatically.

Result on MxR with Sandisk Ultra II : I couldn't get it to fail after many, many attempts. I tried recording 1,2,3,4,5,10,20,30, even went to 20min, then button off, then go straight back to record. It never failed once. Conclusion, same as SxS.

2) What about going from record to review? It has to write the TOC before we can review the shot, so how fast can it do it. Slower cards, and Lexar SSD all failed here.

Result on MxR with Sandisk Ultra II : We tried shot after shot after shot, never missed a beat. Conclusion same as SxS.

3) Can the cards switch automatically, without a hitch. Worked fine letting camera do the switch. conclusion same as SxS.

4) Overcrank: Obviously for those who have been following the huge thread on this topic, it is the USB interface which limits the amount of overcranking possibile. We have tested in PAL up to 48fps, on a start stop sequence, like in point 1) above and in long sequences crossing cards. No probs at 48fps.

5) Inserting / Ejecting cards in camera and computer. We have tested putting into both, was the card recognised each and every time by the camera. Yes. Was it recognised by the computer, yes. Compare to SxS. I have a 16GB SxS which is recognised by the camera each time, but only sometimes by the computer. I have to sometimes reboot my Dell laptop, to make it recognise it. Never had that problem with MxR.

6) Check the Push in / Push out, to see if movement loses integrity. You know how some people using worry beads, or flick pens while they are working, well I did that to the card I was testing. Pull the card in of the adapter, push in/push out for about,... well most of a couple of days, while I was doing other things (obviously I wasn't editing those days). It passed that test fine. With any mechanism there is a chance for failure, but I did what I would think most people won't do, constantly removing, reinserting. No probs.

BTW the Push in Push out mechanism we are using is designed to ONLY work with SDHC cards. So it doesn't have to compromise on function. Do one thing and do it well, was the idea.

7) We put a camera on record with one card in it, and we recorded on the card, then deleted the files and recorded again, and again, I think we did 8 hours straight in a non air conditioned office, to see if the card would overheat. We had heard there were some cards which did this, and they would stop being recognised by the camera. MxR had no problems. I'd like to do more testing on this to see if our high summer temps here in Sydney, (it was 34C and felt like 90% humidity today) will affect it. so far no problem.

8) We also tried 8GB, 16GB Sandisks, 8GB and 16GB Transcends, no problems, all worked fine.

9) I haven't inserted and reinserted the card thousands of times into a camera, but we have done hundreds, and more as we continue our testing. I suppose, again lilke anything mechanical, it will fail. I will ask the manufacturer if there is some kind of MTBF for Expresscard connectors.

I was distressed to hear about the failures of some Kensington/Delkin cards. Does anybody have any info on the circumstances that surround the failures. I would sure like to test for that.

10) Lastly, I am going test each card before it leaves us, to make sure you don't get a Dead on Arrival. I hate getting all excited about some new fandango doodad, get it out of the box and it fails. So you can be sure that I have stuck your card in one of our cameras with a Sandisk Ultra II and the camera said "58mins".

11) I wanted test random deletion of clips and re-recording, but our technical team member told me, that we wouldn't be testing the Adapter but the software implementation on the SDHC card, re: data balancing etc, so we abandoned that test. For our small amount of testing, it didn't seem to have a problem, but maybe what we need is some kind of standardised test that can test an SDHC cards ability to write randomly. Anyone got ay ideas?


If you have any specific testing that you wuld like me to do, I'd be happy to oblidge, but it will have to wait until our Monday, which is the US sunday, as all our cameras are out at Dance concerts at the moment. Sorry about that, but you know, we are a video production business, and Dance concerts wait for no man.


Any questions, please feel free to post here or send me an email. I'm a bit overloaded with email at the moment, but I will answer it as soon as I can.

regs.

Hi Jeroen,

Thanks for the question.

Your question is a good one, and I'll bet that you aren't the only one asking it. We are offering a warranty on the cards, but I need to clear up a few more questions about what is included / duration / RMA process etc. that I have with the manufacturer. Obviously DOA is a no brainer.

You might want to take a quick, well ok not so quick look, at the post I put above on some of the testing we have done. There are some other things we tested for but they don't spring to mind at 5am, don't know why.

Can I get back to you as soon as I get clarification, is that ok?

Ross, I impressed with your very substantial testing program based upon your concern about reliability of your product. Many thanks for your patience with our questions, its pleasure dealing with you.
I have another one: Yesterday I have placed the order through your web site, but did not get e-mail confirmation. Should I expect one?
Thank you,
Mark

Hi Ross, I placed an order yesterday (3176-1306-3327-0035) but would like to know if I can switch to your faster method of freight since I really need the readers by Thursday. Please let me know if this is possible asap. Thanks,
Neil

Well you certainly put the cards through their paces. I just got 2 Delkin adapters, 3-Transcend and 2-Sandisk 16GB SD cards last week. I did almost exactly the same tests as you did. I ran the cards for 4-6 hours each, some strait record until full and some off and on for many clips. Out of 2 Delkins I ordered (both the same blessed eFilm cards) one worked flawlessly the other failed right away. Tried reformat and re-recording but if it fails right away it's dead! after days of testing I used them on a job this week and they worked great. The job was interviewing camera operators who are receiving awards from the SOC (Society of Operating Cameramen) here in Hollywood. The coolest thing was showing those tiny little cards to the Tech heads who work in the entertainment business. Most are just plain flabbergasted! So much recording time on such a tiny card. Well I am going to order some cards from you soon so I can have lots of media standing by, I have several projects I am using the cards on so this is just awesome. Oh yea and I do tell everyone I know who has an EX1/3.

So much Fun!

And a big thank you Ross, looks like you have done a great job.

I'll add my congratulations to Ross as well for his efforts and courage in taking on this venture. It's nice to see a local taking the lead on this.

Then again it does seem a bit strange paying for something in Australia in USD, especially as the biggest market for these will probably be in Australia. Not to worry Ross, I can pay you cash if you like, plenty of USDs left over from trips to the USA.

Hi Bob,

The problem with using Aussie dollars, is that except for us no-one knows their value. So if you put down $AUD50, everyone would say "what's an $AUD?", then they have to do their own exchange conversion. We figured most people in the world have bought something from the US at some stage, from B&H, or Amazon or whatever, and they know if $US35 converted to their home currency of Krona, Peso or Euro, is good value or not.

We have split off Australia from the other countries only because we have to charge GST here and produce a GST invoice. Paypal's system from what I could see couldn't handle our complexity.

And yes we are going to offer Australians to pay in Sunburnt Aussie dollars. I'm replying to all the people who have enquired today, with a similar chart with Aussie dollars and using Auspost Platinum for security.

Hi Ross,

If it was any miracles available at your pocket making possible to send the cards
(ordered 3 just now)
from the sunny Aus to the land of the Santa during next week, so they'll land at my postbox before 20th Dec...would be more than fantastic - Merry Xmas

Br.