Different frame rates and sizes for the EX1?

George Kroonder · December 20th, 2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

Nick, from your question, I am going to assume that you are somewhat new to this game. So here are some basics.

Standard television in the US is broadcast at 30 frames per second, or rather 60 fields (which are half frames) per second. This is interlaced.. In PAL countries this is 25 frames per second and not interlaced.

Just to point out that PAL broadcasts are 50i.

The preference for either progressive acquisition (25p for PAL or 30p for NTSC) or interlaced (50i/60i) is something you should make based on the subject.

George/

Perrone Ford · December 20th, 2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Kroonder

Just to point out that PAL broadcasts are 50i.

The preference for either progressive acquisition (25p for PAL or 30p for NTSC) or interlaced (50i/60i) is something you should make based on the subject.

George/

Thanks George. I knew it but wasn't thinking about PAL fields. *sigh*

Nick Stone · December 20th, 2008, 03:38 PM

Thanks Perrone,

I have done some tests both in 720/50p and 1080/50i and to my eye the 720/50p looks better onto DVD.
I think that interlaced 1080i to interlaced SD for MPEG compression through compressor is the problem, the 720/50p seems to hold up through the conversion much better.
The only thing that I don’t like is the motion blur I get when panning in 720/50p, I think I would have to shoot differently if using progressive.
720p seems to have a great or richer texture than 1080i, I could be wrong because I’m shooting progressive and my eye is seeing this new format.
I wonder how my clients would feel if I started shooting progressive as the motion blur can at times look like there is a problem with the DVD.

Perrone Ford · December 20th, 2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Stone

I wonder how my clients would feel if I started shooting progressive as the motion blur can at times look like there is a problem with the DVD.

Experiment with shutter angle. Maybe a 120 degree?

Dominik Seibold · December 21st, 2008, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Stone

The only thing that I don’t like is the motion blur I get when panning in 720/50p,

Switching between 50i and 50p can't change the shutter-speed/motion-blur. There must be something wrong with your viewing-method.

Matt Davis · December 21st, 2008, 12:44 PM

For what it's worth, shooting 720p50 and using Compressor to reinterlace fields whilst downconverting to Standard Definition gives you back that 'video' feel. Enable Frame Controls to get it. Render to DVCAM and lay off to tape (and compare with DSR570 rushes!).

But I've had really positive reaction from clients with my switch to 100% progressive shooting. 25fps has required a slight modification to shooting style, but nothing I'd lose sleep over. Shooting 50fps for 50fps playback is a rare luxury.

To be candid, it's cheaper to shoot 25p 'film look' - yet it's perceived as higher production value. To shoot 50p is more expensive in time/resources, but the resultant 'video' look is taken as something of lower value.

Personally, I would prefer to pan slower, have happier clients and be seen as a high quality option (with more earning power) over shooting at 50fps all the time just so I could wiggle the camera more. Now, where are those asbestos underpants?

Dominik Seibold · December 21st, 2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss

To be candid, it's cheaper to shoot 25p 'film look' - yet it's perceived as higher production value. To shoot 50p is more expensive in time/resources, but the resultant 'video' look is taken as something of lower value.

Funny point. But I would really like to see tv-shows in 1080p60. :)

Nick Stone · December 21st, 2008, 02:51 PM

Yes I don’t know what happened as the motion blur was extremely excessive and stuttering very bad.
I must have rendered it to the wrong setting as I went out and shot some more, rendered again and now it’s exactly as it should look .

I have to say I still cant understand the shutter settings, on or off I can’t see the difference. I wish there was more info on this somewhere.
Maybe someone has some links for me?

Dominik Seibold · December 21st, 2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Stone

I have to say I still cant understand the shutter settings, on or off I can’t see the difference. I wish there was more info on this somewhere.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdca...utter-ex1.html

Nick Stone · December 22nd, 2008, 04:56 PM

I’m looking at the difference in what gets chopped through down converting to SD MPEG through compression.

If I start with 1080i to get a Pal 576 DVD I lose 504 lines which is 46.6% resolution loss.
If I start with 720p to get a Pal 576 DVD I lose 144 lines which is 20% resolution loss

Is this correct?
If so, 720 holds more resolution to the end. Is this correct.

I’m might not know what I’m talking about and might have this completely wrong, I was hoping someone might confirm this for me.

The reason being I have a client that wants something shot and I think it should be recorder in 720p vs. 1080i or 1080p to hold quality through to compression and DVD.

December 21st, 2008, 12:44 PM	#36
Matt Davis Trustee Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 1,562	For Mac/FCP users... For what it's worth, shooting 720p50 and using Compressor to reinterlace fields whilst downconverting to Standard Definition gives you back that 'video' feel. Enable Frame Controls to get it. Render to DVCAM and lay off to tape (and compare with DSR570 rushes!). But I've had really positive reaction from clients with my switch to 100% progressive shooting. 25fps has required a slight modification to shooting style, but nothing I'd lose sleep over. Shooting 50fps for 50fps playback is a rare luxury. To be candid, it's cheaper to shoot 25p 'film look' - yet it's perceived as higher production value. To shoot 50p is more expensive in time/resources, but the resultant 'video' look is taken as something of lower value. Personally, I would prefer to pan slower, have happier clients and be seen as a high quality option (with more earning power) over shooting at 50fps all the time just so I could wiggle the camera more. Now, where are those asbestos underpants? __________________ Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6

December 20th, 2008, 03:38 PM	#33
Nick Stone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 133	Thanks Perrone, I have done some tests both in 720/50p and 1080/50i and to my eye the 720/50p looks better onto DVD. I think that interlaced 1080i to interlaced SD for MPEG compression through compressor is the problem, the 720/50p seems to hold up through the conversion much better. The only thing that I don’t like is the motion blur I get when panning in 720/50p, I think I would have to shoot differently if using progressive. 720p seems to have a great or richer texture than 1080i, I could be wrong because I’m shooting progressive and my eye is seeing this new format. I wonder how my clients would feel if I started shooting progressive as the motion blur can at times look like there is a problem with the DVD.

December 21st, 2008, 02:51 PM	#38
Nick Stone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 133	Yes I don’t know what happened as the motion blur was extremely excessive and stuttering very bad. I must have rendered it to the wrong setting as I went out and shot some more, rendered again and now it’s exactly as it should look . I have to say I still cant understand the shutter settings, on or off I can’t see the difference. I wish there was more info on this somewhere. Maybe someone has some links for me?

December 22nd, 2008, 04:56 PM	#40
Nick Stone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 133	I’m looking at the difference in what gets chopped through down converting to SD MPEG through compression. If I start with 1080i to get a Pal 576 DVD I lose 504 lines which is 46.6% resolution loss. If I start with 720p to get a Pal 576 DVD I lose 144 lines which is 20% resolution loss Is this correct? If so, 720 holds more resolution to the end. Is this correct. I’m might not know what I’m talking about and might have this completely wrong, I was hoping someone might confirm this for me. The reason being I have a client that wants something shot and I think it should be recorder in 720p vs. 1080i or 1080p to hold quality through to compression and DVD.