Problem with Sandisk UltraII and both adapters
 

I have mentioned my problems with the Sandisk Ultra II 16 GB card before on several occations in different threads but since I still have not figured out why I have problems and nobody else seems to, I thought I'd lay it all out here again.
I'd really appreciate your thoughts!

These are my observations.

I have two Kensington adapters and two MxR-adapters. I also have one Sandisk 8 GB Extreme III, one Sandisk 16 GB Extreme III and one Sandisk 16 GB Ultra II.

The Extreme cards work perfectly in both adapter types. I have used the 16 GB card for months with the Kensington and not a single error message. I have recorded at least 10 hours with that card. This leads me to the conclusion that I don't have a problem with the camera or the adapters.

Now - the first Sandisk 16 GB Ultra II card I bought behaved very strangely. It was difficult to get the camera to accept it at all and I only managed to make a few recordings before the card stopped working. I don't remember the details here since this was a while ago. Anyway I assumed the card was faulty and had it replaced.
The new card behaved nicely for a while but when using it for the second time it gave me an error message "Media needs to be restored" when trying to review a clip I had just recorded. I had to take the card out of the adapter and put it back in a couple of times to get the camera to accept it for recording again.
Ever since it has been increasingly unstable. Often stopping with error message "Media needs to be restored" in the middle of a recording resulting in a corrupt clip. It never ruins other clips on the card though. I have tried reformating the card both in Windows and in the camera to make sure the file system was not corrupt.

I have also had problems reading the card in my laptop. Both using the adapters and putting the card straight into the SD-slot. Sometimes it shows up in windows but when I try to look at the files on the cards it tells me to insert a card.
It feels good that the card behaves this way in windows as well since that makes me more confident that the problem is with the card itself and not with the adaptor or camera.

I get the feeling that the card simply stops responding and "disappears" from the camera or computer now and again and that causes the error. I should point out that I never get the error message that lets me restore the card only the one saying "Media needs to be restored". To fix the problem I have to reinsert the card. It does not restore the card when I do this. All of these problems are there using both the Kensington and the MxR-adapter.

I also want to point out that WHEN the card works it performs perfectly and lets me overcrank up to 45 fps without problems so the problem is not poor performance from the card.

I am about to buy more cards and feel very confident with the ExtremeIII-cards that have never failed me but they are more than double the price and as has been pointed out here before do not offer any advantages compared to Ultra II. Could I really have been so unlucky as to recieve two faulty cards in a row?! They even had different packing so they were probably not from the same batch.

Finally I'd like to point out that I have made sure these are not fake e-bay cards.

Sorry for the long post but I really wanted to tell the whole story. I'd be really interested in your views and any similar experiences. If I had not had such good experience from the ExtremeIII-cards I would have dropped the whole idea of SDHC-cards by now.

You could always try the Transcend Class 6 cards. Half the price of the Extreme III yet just as reliable.

Yes - I am considering them. Although I recall hearing some early reports on problems with them as well. Have you had any problems or error messages at all with Transcend cards?

Ola,

When I first got a SDHC combo I had a few problems getting the particular Sandisk Ultra II SDHC that I had to work... (took 3-4 attempts to get EX3 to recognise the media) but it has (so far) been absolutely fine since - and touch wood will remain so!

Many reports on here that this SDHC combo is typically reliable - so just maybe you were the 'one in 1000' (or whatever the duff rate is with this particular electronics component) who got TWO duff/sub-standard Sandisk Ultra II cards in a row? Very unlucky but possible. The microengineering within these cards is very high precision stuff and if manufacturing tolerances of several components are at their extremes and 'stack up' together then you might end up with an intermittently unreliable card - not that I'm any expert in this aspect of manufacturing but I do have a highly technical manufacturing background and I've seen this effect in other aspects of technology.

My other two sticks are Transcend combos and they were fine and have never given me any issues and again DVinfo users experiences in general has been excellent - and they are (even) cheaper as has been pointed out.

As is well known (but I tested it anyway), both types typically allow over-cranking to about 45-50 fps in 720p mode before error messages start appearing - I tested them on arrival before any serious use. However, I never use them for over-cranking, I just put those shots on SxS to be safe.

Apparently someone else also having problem with Sandisk Ultra II
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdca...disk-32gb.html

I have read a lot of bad news about the 32 GB cards, which is sad, but I don't think you should compare them with the 16 GB card that has been accepted as the no.1 choice and is supposed to work perfectly.
I started this thread to find out if anybody else had experienced similar issues to mine with the 16 GB version.
Right now I think I'd be more comfortable with a Transcend card actually...

I noticed that Convergent Design, which is using CF, not SDHC, recommends Transcend.

Ola maybe you should try re-installing your Firmware. The only cards I have had problems with are the SanDisk HD SDHC cards, I returned all of them. I have 20 16GB Transend cards and 12 16GB SanDisk and 4 32GB. I have not had a problem so far knock on wood...
I plan to leave the footage on the cards until each project is finished.

Do you really think that would help? The camera indicates that I have ver. 1.11 installed and the Extreme cards work perfectly. I could not have the firmware half installed could I? Also - I am not too keen on installing the firmware myself even though I have it available.

The issue here is without doubt your 16GB card, IMO. As you point out, firmware reinstall should not make any difference as it's clearly working as Sony intended, actually, probably not as they intended.....;-)

Also, just to clarify, the Sandisk Ultra II SDHC card I discussed above is of course a 16GB "Class 4", not a 32GB Sandisk.

Hi
I have now 15 transend 16gB class 6 cards that works perfect. The Sandisk cards I was never able to get in Denmark. Thanks to that - because the Transend class 6 cards costs a 1/3 of the sandisk card - about 50 dollars in denmark and includes a USB-SDHC converter!
I have not any problems - yet.....(I use 2 kensington adapters)

i have the transcend cards as well, and they work well. the only thing I notice is if you take it out and use it in the computer, it needs to be reformatted. but I think thats typical, right?

I read clips from my Extreme III and Ultra II cards, convert them, and then delete them from the card. Then I put them back in the camera and when I turn it on it is ready to shoot - no formatting necessary.

hmm, maybe I AM having issues with my card then. its fine though, because it captures and transfers via USB without any issues.

Like Ted, I am not asked to reformat. I've tried deleting clips from ClipBrowser as well as inserting a full card back into camera and deleted clips from there.

See my full post on another thread.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/993335-post14.html

I have not had any issues like that. I do not format them - unless the camera wants to do it - like the first time I use a new Sd card. After transferring the files from the transcend card I also just delete them in the clipbrowser. I have no problems using the cards for storage for other files on my computer.

Same here. I have never had to reformat a SDHC card and can freely move them back and forth between computer and camera. This includes the Ultra II:s that I have had problems with as described above. The problems I have had have only been "Media error - card needs to be restored". Never reformating.

Well the alarm bells have rung enough for me to cancel my order on the 32Gb card and get three 16Gb Ultras instead. I shoot weddings and can't afford this to happen under any circumstances.

I bought 5 x16gb Ultra ll cards to use with MxR adapters, 3 work brilliantly & 2 are complete duds .. constant restore media messages on the EX1 & also had problems with imac. Have sent the 2 faulty ones back & waiting for replacements. So maybe it's not so uncommon.

This was the answer I was waiting for! Now I know I am not completely bonkers!
I am sorry that you too have had problems but it is comforting to know that I am not alone.
Do you also get "restore media messages" but not the option to restore? Do you have the same other problems as I have with the cards?

I also have 15 transcend 16gb class 6, many hours use, no errors. All shot with different hired in cameras as well as my own. Also 6 Sandisk Ultra II's - no issues with these either.

I would say that this is a card based problem.

Paul

Hi Ola,

I had one Sandisk Ultra II 16GB, that behaved in a similar way on the MxR, it would record as normal, but then when I stopped it would go throw "media error", as if it was too slow.

This happened after I was testing what happens if you pull the MxR out while still recording, do you end up with a disaster, (PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME), I just wanted to see of I could break the MxR. Well the files were still there, and as expected the Sony asked for a "media restore", I ejected it but when I put the card back in it wouldn't go and do the media restore. I copied all the files off the card, and put them onto another, and it did the media restore on that card no prob.

So back to the first card, I tried reformatting in the camera, I tried clearing the card in my laptop using clipbrowser, I even used Explorer to clear the card of data, ie the BPAV files. I did another test of using the SDHC in my laptop and then formatting it using a cheap USB/SDHC adapter.

Well I'm sorry to say,...ONE of the things I did remediated the card, but I don't know which one. It now works fine, and I can't tell the difference between it and the others. In fact I can't remember which one it is now, of the pile on my desk.

I know this may not help you, but I wanted to share what I did in case someone else might try what I did and it might lead to a fix.

I think people are pulling the MxR out before the recording has finished and as you say Ross you have had issues from this too. The tally light doesn't mean the recording has stopped.

I think anyone who is purchasing the MxR/SDHC should realize they need to understand what they are getting into, and learn what works in their camera. I will always check and make sure the slot light is Green before I remove any card from now on.

From all of the research I have read and from my personnel experience the Transcend brand is very very good. I have the Convergent Design Flash XDR using the 32 gig CF Transcend cards and they are rock solid when recording @ 100 Mbps Mpeg-2.

I would like to have a few 32 gig SDHC cards but I'm going to wait until they come down a bit more before I purchase them.

I had problems with my 16GB Transcend Class6 card with the Kensington adapter. So I bought the UltraII and they have worked much better, but not perfect. I get the same message as Ola sometimes but not as often as he describes. With the Transcend it was impossible to use (corrupted every other clip). Obviously many don't have any problems, but it's not safe to say that the Trenscends will work better in every situation. It seems like you have to test different combinations on different cameras until you find a reliable one.

For your information Ola, I bought all my cards and adapters at Webhallen. Don't know if the cards behaves differently depending on which batch they were made in.

I'm using the EX3

Hi
I forgot to say that I have the EX3 - Maybe there could be a small difference between EX1 and EX3. As I said - no problems with EX3, kensington and 15 transend 16gB class6 cards.
And waiting for the slot led to go out before pulling the cards out out.

First of all - thanks for all of your thoughts.

Michael - I have not taken out the card before the light went green. I am very aware of what that means so that is not my problem.

Mårten - I bought my Kensingtons at Webhallen too(!) Now i have nice Australian MxR-adapters instead so I don't use them any more (need more Kensingtons for your EX3? I have two for sale). Bought the faulty Sandisk Ultra II:s at Dustin though. Your experiences with the Transcends cards seem to confirm that some cards simply are bad apples. Like I pointed out my ExtremeIII-cards have worked absolutely perfectly so that is kind of what I expect from other cards. But maybe that is not realistic? But considering the success everybody seems to have had with this solution and the very low number of people actually having problems I think we should be able to expect the cards to be very reliable.

I promised to report back so here's what's happened.

Two days ago I got a replacement Sandisk Ultra II 16 GB and to my great relief it behaves completely different to the two other cards. I have now recorded more or less constantly to the card for two days and only have had media errors when overcranking too much. These errors are not at all the same as those I experienced before.

My conclusion is that two out of the three Sandisk Ultra II cards I got where no good! In the future I will not trust a card in the field before testing it for several hours.

Pleased you got this resolved and reported back. Good outcome! :-)

This seems to confirm that you really were VERY unlucky in getting TWO bad Sandisk SDHC Ultra II 16GB cards! I wonder (we will never know I guess) if they both came from the exact same manufacturing batch or if this is just one of those statistical improbabilities that one occasionally sees.

Your advice is good. Thoroughly test each adapter combo before any serious stuff. Hell, I even had a SxS problem a few weeks ago (EX3 started claiming media not recognised!!!!). After much fraught agro I eventually recovered all but a tiny portion of a critical interview and that card is being watched very closely!

I have a Kensington adaptor and I just bought a Sandisk 16gb Ultra II card. I plugged it into my EX3 and did the quick format. It recognized the card, so I went out and tested it.

Everything seemed fine shooting. I shot about 45 minutes worth of test footage on the card, but when I went back to watch it via clip browser on my laptop, a problem arose.

I could see all the clips in the clip browser. They all played well up until about clip number 13 where it just stopped playing about a quarter way in. I tried clip 14. Same thing. It just stopped. Didn't say anything was wrong. I did notice what looked like a little exclamation point on the thumbnails.

As I tried playing each clip after the clips with the error, they each showed a little exclamation point and wouldn't play.

I tried copying onto the hard drive. Only the 12 good clips copied, then there was some sort of error message that displayed, but I can't remember exactly what it said. Something about the clips not existing.

At this point, none of the thumbnails were showing in the clipbrowser from the Kensington card anymore. I reinserted the card and restarted the browser and there they were again.

I decided to put the card back into the camera and see what happens (I didn't review any clips while out shooting, which I should've done). Anyway, the thumbnails show up and played fine until clip 13. On clip 13, I got the error message 'media error. media (a) needs to be restored'. Then the thumbnails disappear and I have to reinsert the card.

The thumbnails are back. I know the clips are there, so I decide to look at the very last clip. The last clip plays fine. I continue backwards with each clip to see which ones play with no problems until I finally isolate the two bad clips which were clips 13 and 14. All other clips were fine, even though after playing the bad clips before, the good clips too had exclamation points in the clip browser and wouldn't play. It appeared at first, that all clips after the bad ones were bad, but they weren't.

I then come to dvinfo.net to see who else may have had this problem. I search and learn that class 4 32gb Sandisk cards don't seem to work. I check my new 16gb Sandisk and lo and behold it's a class 4, not a class 2.

Did I just end up with a bum card or are the 16gb class 4 cards not reliable like the 32gb ones? How do you know if you're getting a class 2 or 4? I guess I have to exchange this one. I don't like the idea of shooting something and not knowing if a clip will end up corrupted.

All these reports of failures with sandisk cards makes me think about biting the bullet and getting the 32GB SxS cards that have just gone down in price.

Peace of mind has a price. $900.

Class 2 cards say Class 2 on the package. Not easy to discern on the website since all the web marketing material always says Class 4.

I don't see anyone reporting issue with Transcend cards. Hoodman also assures that their cards work too.

Can we have a proper poll of SD card EX owning users? To get some idea of what issues there are with these setups.

Can it contain information on which popular adaptors and card are being used, whether the users has had zero problems, some problems but no data loss, several problems and data loss etc.

Or a scale of one to ten for reliability, data loss etc

I use four Kensington adapters with my EX3. Sandisk 16GB Extreme III's.

Since October 2008:
No data loss
No formating issues or such problems
10 for 10 reliability

Im waiting for some 32GB cards either Class 6 or Extreme IV's to become available and hoping they will serve me equally as well.

Sadly, Sony still has a long way to go with their price reduction on SxS before I will invest in them. If Panasonic (NAB09) can sell 64GB P2 cards for under a grand and 32GB P2 cards for less than 600, surely Sony can pull up its socks and get with the customer demand as well.

MxR
2 Sandisk 32GB Ultra II Class 2 cards
Requires two format attempts to format
Using them since Jan '09 (when I was first able to get the 32GB cards) and never lost a bit. Never even had a restore media. I've done nearly 4 hour continuous records across the two cards also. Flawless.

3 x MxR with 4 x 16GB Transcend.

After a few months of use, no problems so far. Corporates and Commercials. I use drag and drop in OSX finder to copy and backup the BPAV folders.

I won't wipe the SD card until I have worked with the extracted quicktimes, then backup the quicktimes and the BPAV to three different HDs in separate locations.

I have...
2 MxR adapters
2 16GB Transcend Class 6 SDHC cards
2 32GB Transcend Class 6 SDHC cards
2 32GB TopRam Class 6 SDHC cards
2 16GB SxS cards
2 8GB SxS cards

No SxS issues.

The TopRam 32GB SDHC cards do NOT work. Cannot format.

The 32GB Transcend cards... One card works ok, the other card will only work in one slot, but not the other slot. Not an MxR issue as both MxR adapters had the same issue with this card and the same slot in the camera.

Transcend 16GB cards... No problems until last week when one card started giving the media restore message. So far I have not been able to clear this card, nor can I format it now. Same behavior in both MxR adapters, and not a slot issue on the camera.

To be honest, I don't need these kind of headaches. Plus with the recent price drop on the Sony SxS cards, I think I am going to go exclusively with SxS from now on.

I have plenty of digital cameras that I can use the SDHC cards in, so they are not wasted.

2 Kensington exchange with 2 MxR adapter :-) anyone interested?

5x MxR with 12x 16GB SanDisk SDHC Ultra II Class 4
No problems so far but few shots only till now.

As I've written here I had problems when testing integrity of cards before using them. The 2 biggest problems were:

• drop off writing speed (below 10MBit/sec from 13.6MBit/sec) somewhere in the middle of one card
• read error near end of another card

3 more cards had writing rates of 13.0-13.6 only where all other's were above 14.0-14.5MBit/sec. I do speak of sequential writing the FULL cards - not just some short tests.

In the end I've send back all five dubious cards. After these experiences for me it is essential to check integrity of the complete cards. I will do this from time to time again to be sure...

4 MxR adapters - (I had 5 but one broke - I think because I tried to insert the SD card in backwards, d'oh!)
5 16gb sandisk ultra II
2 32gb sandisk ultra II
I have had only one error with the 16gb where the camera stopped recording and got a restore media message. Don't know why. I was handheld and scrambling around, so could have been me hitting a button or something. I have put that card away - don't really trust it anymore, and don't really need it.
I wasn't trusting the 32 gb cards because of the double formatting issue, but since I read that others have the exact same issue and then double format and then shoot with no issues, I have been using them with no problems.
I'm probably on 10 cycles with the 16gb cards, and 2 on the 32 gb cards.

happened to me 1 time
 

i got this message once when i was shooting outside in Bangkok on a really hot day "Media needs to be restored". i was recording to my MxR card with a Sandisk Ultra II 16 GB. i shut the camera down and when i started up everything was sweet. i don't think i lost anything. i don't know why sometimes my camera seems to get hot but i noticed it on one other occasion and it was not hot or even outside. the day i got the message i thought it could be related to the heat and not the Sandisk Ulta II.
when you got the message did you lose any media?
aloha
tito