Shotgun mic choices for EX-1

Bob Kerner · January 25th, 2009, 08:46 AM

One of my questions seems to have faded away:

Please explain how the mic mounts onto the EX-1. Do I use the existing mount on the camera or use an after-market shock mount and, if so, how does the shock mount attach to the camera's mic holder.

The pix I see on B&H for example lend no clue as to how they shock mount attaches to the camera. They look like they are for boom pole mounting.

Thank you. I'm leaning toward the Rode NTG 1 based on size (don't want it intruding on image) and economical price. By all accounts in other threads the sound quality is very good.

Perrone Ford · January 25th, 2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kerner

One of my questions seems to have faded away:

Please explain how the mic mounts onto the EX-1. Do I use the existing mount on the camera or use an after-market shock mount and, if so, how does the shock mount attach to the camera's mic holder.

Shoe mount on top of camera.

Bob Kerner · January 25th, 2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

Shoe mount on top of camera.

Thanks. What if you use the shoe mount, already, for light?

I guess what I'm also asking is: what's the purpose of the Sony mic holder, why not just put the mic in there without the shock mount? Will the shock mount make a difference?

Perrone Ford · January 25th, 2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kerner

Thanks. What if you use the shoe mount, already, for light?

I guess what I'm also asking is: what's the purpose of the Sony mic holder, why not just put the mic in there without the shock mount? Will the shock mount make a difference?

The purpose of the mic holder, is to hold a mic. The number of broken ones should alert you to how well they work for that. I have used it without breaking it. But I use my camera on a tripod most often.

Will the shock mount make a difference? Well, to those of us who shell out $50, $100, $200 for them, I'd say we believe they do. Ground and floors move and shake. And it's really nice to be able to isolate that from the mic. Cameras move a LOT and create a lot of noise, and it's really nice to be able to separate the mic from that also.

But the truth of the matter is this. If you are recording with your mic on the camera, most likely, it won't matter that much to you. If you're shooting with an on-camera light, then a mic in the mic-mount probably won't matter.

Ian Planchon · January 25th, 2009, 11:16 AM

Sennheiser | MZQ200 - Stand Adapter | MZQ200 | B&H Photo Video

I use that.

the mic holder holds that in place, so I am able to pull the shotgun off for interviews and such. it doesnt provide the shock mount ability, but I need quick access to my mic, and the shock mounts seem a little cumbersome in that sense.

Ted OMalley · January 25th, 2009, 01:44 PM

I concur with many that the Sony provide mic holder is prone to breaking. It is designed to break away and thus protect the camera/mic. However, I feel that they have over-engineered it's ability to break away - two thin strips of 1/8" plastic are all that hold it in place.

I decided not to risk mine, and therefore removed it entirely and replaced it with the cold shoe adapter from DM Accessories

Then, I purchased a shock mount designed to mount to a cold shoe.

This is a great page for mic samples:

DVeStore’s Shotgun Shootout at DVcreators.net

Barry J. Anwender · January 25th, 2009, 04:45 PM

I purchased the AT 835ST Stereo Shotgun mic based upon a recommendation in these forums and indeed it also had a very good review on the B&H site. Sadly, I've tried on three different shoots and results are disappointing to say the least, if not horrible. I've tried every conceivable setting on the mic and with my EX3 sensitivity. It is expensive and ineffective, there is just no more to say. Sorry for the rant!

I've returned to using my trusty Sennheiser K6 series mics and wish I had spent a little more for their stereo shotgun.

In writing this, I now realize that I need to formally approach AT and seek their comments/support if any. They manufacturer in the US so perhaps they will be willing to offer some workable solutions and tangible support??

Bob Kerner · January 25th, 2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

The purpose of the mic holder, is to hold a mic. The number of broken ones should alert you to how well they work for that. I have used it without breaking it. But I use my camera on a tripod most often.

Will the shock mount make a difference? Well, to those of us who shell out $50, $100, $200 for them, I'd say we believe they do. Ground and floors move and shake. And it's really nice to be able to isolate that from the mic. Cameras move a LOT and create a lot of noise, and it's really nice to be able to separate the mic from that also.

But the truth of the matter is this. If you are recording with your mic on the camera, most likely, it won't matter that much to you. If you're shooting with an on-camera light, then a mic in the mic-mount probably won't matter.

Thanks Perrone. I did a poor job of articulating my specific needs and understanding. I understand completely the function of shock mounts particularly on a boom pole; just didn't understand the connection to the camera.

Yes, my intent for this particular post was to mount the mic onto the camera for portable shots when the camera is not on a set of stix. ENG -style, if you will. I do a fair amount of moving around where having the mic on a boom is impractical as a single operator. But if I were on a tripod (and not holding the cam) I'd boom.

I'd appreciate pix of your camera-mounted shock mounts if you have them so I can get an idea of what this will look like.

Thank you one and all!

Perrone Ford · January 25th, 2009, 05:39 PM

Done.

I don't have one with the mic on he EX1, but here is my shockmount on my DVX (pardon the dust!)

** Note the empty mic holder on the DXV. Also note that the bands are set up wrong on the shockmount so don't do what you see here. I hadnt used the thing in ages and set it up in a hurry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kerner

I'd appreciate pix of your camera-mounted shock mounts if you have them so I can get an idea of what this will look like.

Thank you one and all!

Jeff DeMaagd · January 25th, 2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kerner

Thanks Perrone. I did a poor job of articulating my specific needs and understanding. I understand completely the function of shock mounts particularly on a boom pole; just didn't understand the connection to the camera.

Yes, my intent for this particular post was to mount the mic onto the camera for portable shots when the camera is not on a set of stix. ENG -style, if you will. I do a fair amount of moving around where having the mic on a boom is impractical as a single operator. But if I were on a tripod (and not holding the cam) I'd boom.

It's useful even on a camera because camera handling noise easily transmits to the mic through the body of the camera if there wasn't a shock mount. Pressing buttons, moving the sliders, opening / closing the card door, maybe even adjusting the lens dials might be audible. Some of those sounds still transmit with a shock mount, but it's a lot less noticeable, and some of that remainder might just be through the air, though a shotgun's pickup pattern usually isolates from that.

Bob Kerner · January 25th, 2009, 05:45 PM

Thank you!

I'm always impressed by how helpful DVinfo members are. You've given me things to think about. I assumed that mounting the mic would be a compact operation: just shove it in the holder, but I need to re-think that for best quality.

Don Greening · January 26th, 2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry J. Anwender

In writing this, I now realize that I need to formally approach AT and seek their comments/support if any. They manufacturer in the US so perhaps they will be willing to offer some workable solutions and tangible support??

I ended up in the same situation as yourself many months ago. I bought an Audio Technica AT4073A mic for my EX1. I never could get it to work properly. Lots of crackling noises when touching the XLR cable, very narrow recording latitude. In order for it to work at all I had to keep the low freq. cut off switch on the mic activated all the time. Sony's official response was that there were grounding issues with this mic. My dealer wouldn't take the mic back because they said there was nothing wrong with it.

Eventually, because of other issues, Sony gave me a replacement EX1 several months ago but the problems with the AT4073A mic. remained. Recently I sent my EX1 in for the firmware upgrade to v.1.11. Well guess what? The grounding issue with the AT4073A had disappeared. What the.....? I had heard that the latest firmware update had some audio fixes in it but this might be a bit of a bonus. For me and now quite possibly for you, Barry.

As for keeping my post "on-topic" one of the worst offenders of camera noise being recorded is the zoom motor. Without some sort of mic isolation system you're most likely going to hear it in the audio track. As others have stated, anytime you touch or adjust the camera you're going to get that sound transmitted to the mic. A proper mic isolation system shouldn't be something that "you'll think about and maybe get some day." If you want great audio from your mic get a proper mount now.

Barry J. Anwender · January 26th, 2009, 06:41 PM

Thanks Don, I do have a latitude issue and a very short pickup distance which makes no sense for a shotgun mic. With the Camera's sensitivity set of -53, the mic has to be close to the talent so that it does not pick up ambient side noises. It is a stereo shotgun mic with a switch for setting to a narrow stereo polar, yet it picks up the side ambient audio over the talent 10 feet in front of the mic. I am on an EX3, so far I have no crackling noises or grounding issues as you initially experienced on your EX1.

I use the Lightwave shock mount which is very effective. No camera motor noise or pickup from my hand on the lens for manual focus. The Lightwave mounts directly in place of the EX3 factory mic holder and so maintains a low profile for the shotgun.

Don Greening · January 27th, 2009, 12:07 PM

Hi Barry,

Sorry to hear your having issues with your Audio Technica mic. I've never used the one you've got so I have no suggestions on how to get more side rejection from it. I've always been quite impressed with the side rejection capabilities of my AT4073A. I never knew how good a directional shotgun could be until I got this one. When mounted on my EX I'm able to pull clean dialogue from 3 meters in front of the mic while minimizing the ambient from the sides. Not too shabby. I can only imagine how good the really expensive shotguns are.

- Don

Andrew Stone · January 28th, 2009, 02:20 AM

I have a AT4073A and just love the full rounded bottom end of the sound. When used in the sweet spot audio needs next to no sweetening. I use it as a boom mic though and not an "on camera" mic. For on camera I use the ME64/K6 combo with the K-Tek shock mount. Has similar proximity effect to the human head but it does lack the solid bottom end of the Audio Technica AT4073A. The ME64/K6 is good for doc and ENG run & gun work in my opinion.

January 25th, 2009, 01:44 PM	#21
Ted OMalley Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 596	I concur with many that the Sony provide mic holder is prone to breaking. It is designed to break away and thus protect the camera/mic. However, I feel that they have over-engineered it's ability to break away - two thin strips of 1/8" plastic are all that hold it in place. I decided not to risk mine, and therefore removed it entirely and replaced it with the cold shoe adapter from DM Accessories Then, I purchased a shock mount designed to mount to a cold shoe. This is a great page for mic samples: DVeStore’s Shotgun Shootout at DVcreators.net __________________ Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT

January 25th, 2009, 04:45 PM	#22
Barry J. Anwender Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 382	Audio Technia AT835ST - A Bust!!! I purchased the AT 835ST Stereo Shotgun mic based upon a recommendation in these forums and indeed it also had a very good review on the B&H site. Sadly, I've tried on three different shoots and results are disappointing to say the least, if not horrible. I've tried every conceivable setting on the mic and with my EX3 sensitivity. It is expensive and ineffective, there is just no more to say. Sorry for the rant! I've returned to using my trusty Sennheiser K6 series mics and wish I had spent a little more for their stereo shotgun. In writing this, I now realize that I need to formally approach AT and seek their comments/support if any. They manufacturer in the US so perhaps they will be willing to offer some workable solutions and tangible support??

January 25th, 2009, 08:46 AM	#16
Bob Kerner Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York Posts: 388	One of my questions seems to have faded away: Please explain how the mic mounts onto the EX-1. Do I use the existing mount on the camera or use an after-market shock mount and, if so, how does the shock mount attach to the camera's mic holder. The pix I see on B&H for example lend no clue as to how they shock mount attaches to the camera. They look like they are for boom pole mounting. Thank you. I'm leaning toward the Rode NTG 1 based on size (don't want it intruding on image) and economical price. By all accounts in other threads the sound quality is very good.

January 25th, 2009, 11:16 AM	#20
Ian Planchon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: an Alaskan living in Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 513	Sennheiser \| MZQ200 - Stand Adapter \| MZQ200 \| B&H Photo Video I use that. the mic holder holds that in place, so I am able to pull the shotgun off for interviews and such. it doesnt provide the shock mount ability, but I need quick access to my mic, and the shock mounts seem a little cumbersome in that sense.

January 25th, 2009, 05:45 PM	#26
Bob Kerner Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York Posts: 388	Thank you! I'm always impressed by how helpful DVinfo members are. You've given me things to think about. I assumed that mounting the mic would be a compact operation: just shove it in the holder, but I need to re-think that for best quality.

January 26th, 2009, 06:41 PM	#28
Barry J. Anwender Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 382	Thanks Don, I do have a latitude issue and a very short pickup distance which makes no sense for a shotgun mic. With the Camera's sensitivity set of -53, the mic has to be close to the talent so that it does not pick up ambient side noises. It is a stereo shotgun mic with a switch for setting to a narrow stereo polar, yet it picks up the side ambient audio over the talent 10 feet in front of the mic. I am on an EX3, so far I have no crackling noises or grounding issues as you initially experienced on your EX1. I use the Lightwave shock mount which is very effective. No camera motor noise or pickup from my hand on the lens for manual focus. The Lightwave mounts directly in place of the EX3 factory mic holder and so maintains a low profile for the shotgun.

January 27th, 2009, 12:07 PM	#29
Don Greening Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Port Coquitlam BC Canada Posts: 179	Hi Barry, Sorry to hear your having issues with your Audio Technica mic. I've never used the one you've got so I have no suggestions on how to get more side rejection from it. I've always been quite impressed with the side rejection capabilities of my AT4073A. I never knew how good a directional shotgun could be until I got this one. When mounted on my EX I'm able to pull clean dialogue from 3 meters in front of the mic while minimizing the ambient from the sides. Not too shabby. I can only imagine how good the really expensive shotguns are. - Don

January 28th, 2009, 02:20 AM	#30
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	I have a AT4073A and just love the full rounded bottom end of the sound. When used in the sweet spot audio needs next to no sweetening. I use it as a boom mic though and not an "on camera" mic. For on camera I use the ME64/K6 combo with the K-Tek shock mount. Has similar proximity effect to the human head but it does lack the solid bottom end of the Audio Technica AT4073A. The ME64/K6 is good for doc and ENG run & gun work in my opinion.