Live Performance 720p v's 1080p at DVinfo.net

Simon Duncan · June 4th, 2009, 09:48 AM

I have an EX1 and a 16gb and 8gb cards.

I have a 2.5 hour life performance I have to shoot.

I can probably get another 16gb and 8bg gig SxS cards.

But I was wondering how much time will I save if I record in 720p compared to 1080p.

Thanks

Paul Newman · June 4th, 2009, 10:16 AM

In my humble opinion, I'd never shoot anything less than full raster 1920x1080, downscaling to 720 in camera looks horrible in comparison, more like SD than HD.

rent beg or borrow some cards asap!!

Paul

John Peterson · June 4th, 2009, 10:37 AM

There have been many discussions regarding how to get the best results if SD DVD is the final product.

Several have argued that shooting 720p will produce a better SD DVD because less down conversion is required. And others argue differently. None of the threads have reached a definitive conclusion yet.

If it means anything I plan to shoot a dance recital in about a week using 720p instead of 1280i to see how it works out. I understand that the interlacing can pose some problems with certain NLE software in terms of mixing up the field order.

John

Doug Jensen · June 4th, 2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Duncan

But I was wondering how much time will I save if I record in 720p compared to 1080p.
Thanks

Nothing. No time savings.
The file sizes of 720P and 1080P are essentially equal.

If you can't get more cards, consider shooting with one of the SP modes because that WILL get you extra time on each card. The difference in quality might be negligible for a live performance.

Bo Skelmose · June 4th, 2009, 11:08 AM

Hmm.. I have no SP modes on my EX3 - but I use 720P and downconvert in the NLE to SD. I do not think that the camera does a horrible downconwert from the Cmos 1080P to 720P.
The compression will be smaller in 720P than in 1080P - maybe that does a different. I have not been able to do a usable downconvert from any HD - interlaced format. I suggest a progressive format - if you want 720P or 1080P I would suggest a test by yourself, what you like...

Doug Jensen · June 4th, 2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Skelmose

Hmm.. I have no SP modes on my EX3 .

Yes you do.

SP 1080 / 60i
SP 1080 / 24P
SP 1080 / 50i

The SP modes record at a constant 25 Mbs/sec. bit rate, and the HQ modes record at a 35 Mbs/sec. variable rate. The result is that you can fit more data on a card with the SP modes.

720 vs. 1080 won't make any difference in how much data can fit on a card, but SP vs. HQ will.

Craig Seeman · June 4th, 2009, 12:34 PM

Buy MxR adaptor and 2 Transcend 32GB SDHC Class 6 cards. You will be able to record nearly 4 hours straight through in HQ mode.

Tim Polster · June 4th, 2009, 01:09 PM

I think you want to think about framerates first then resolution.

If you need or want 60 frames a second then you have to shoot 720p to get that and stay progressive.

If you do not want 24 or 30 frames a second, then you will not want to shoot 1080p

Simon Denny · June 4th, 2009, 03:52 PM

For me I shoot everything in 720/50p if it is for SD DVD.
I find the downconversion sharp through FCP/Compressor.
I have tried all other formats with the EX1 and this works.
You wont save anytime with changing formats.

John Peterson · June 4th, 2009, 06:21 PM

Personally, I would render MPEG2 intended for DVD as interlaced.

That will give it greater compatibility with both progressive DVD players that will combine the fields into a single frame and send them to a progressive HDTV and also a PC with any decent software DVD player.

But as I said, you will have to be careful your NLE doesn't mix up the field order.

John

Jeremy Hughes · June 4th, 2009, 09:50 PM

I dont believe you will gain any time shooting 720p vs 1080p - they are both 35mbps. You can shoot XDCAM standard quality and just about make it. I know that sucks but I think it will be alright. In terms of 720p looking worse out of the camera versus 1080p, I've had great results with both and would argue that I lose the noise and noticeably less artifacting in 720p. I just shot a music video this weekend which had a ton of overcranking so I went 90% of the whole shoot staying put in 720p HQ

Enrique Orozco Robles · June 5th, 2009, 09:47 AM

... I shoot a similar event on a theater about 2 months ago with my EX3.... 30 fps, 1080p...

Made excelent looking SD-DVDs (mixing with SD close up cameras) and HD-BluRay files (only EX3 scenes) that looks STUNNING on a Bravia LCD through an WD-media player !!

...the 1080p files are the advantage over 720 for BluRay quality....

good luck

Leonard Levy · June 5th, 2009, 06:16 PM

The secret advantage to shooting 1080 if you are cutting in SD or even if you are cutting 720 is that you can push into the shot without any loss in quality, so it is like giving yourself another side by side close up camera all the time. This can save your butt.

Tim Polster · June 6th, 2009, 09:16 PM

I thought the 1080p Blu-ray spec was for 24p only. I don't think you can put a 1080p30 framerate on a BD, but I might be wrong.

If I am right, unless you shoot 24p, then 1080 does not help you much with Blu-ray.

Ilya Spektor · June 6th, 2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

I thought the 1080p Blu-ray spec was for 24p only. I don't think you can put a 1080p30 framerate on a BD, but I might be wrong.

If I am right, unless you shoot 24p, then 1080 does not help you much with Blu-ray.

It can also be 1080 60i/50i:
Blu-ray Disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1080p30 can be easily converted to 1080i60...

June 4th, 2009, 09:48 AM	#1
Simon Duncan Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Angers, France Posts: 181	Live Performance 720p v's 1080p I have an EX1 and a 16gb and 8gb cards. I have a 2.5 hour life performance I have to shoot. I can probably get another 16gb and 8bg gig SxS cards. But I was wondering how much time will I save if I record in 720p compared to 1080p. Thanks

June 4th, 2009, 10:16 AM	#2
Paul Newman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Agua Blanca Ibiza Posts: 305	In my humble opinion, I'd never shoot anything less than full raster 1920x1080, downscaling to 720 in camera looks horrible in comparison, more like SD than HD. rent beg or borrow some cards asap!! Paul __________________ Another Sunny Day in Ibiza

June 4th, 2009, 09:50 PM	#11
Jeremy Hughes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 276 Images: 2	I dont believe you will gain any time shooting 720p vs 1080p - they are both 35mbps. You can shoot XDCAM standard quality and just about make it. I know that sucks but I think it will be alright. In terms of 720p looking worse out of the camera versus 1080p, I've had great results with both and would argue that I lose the noise and noticeably less artifacting in 720p. I just shot a music video this weekend which had a ton of overcranking so I went 90% of the whole shoot staying put in 720p HQ __________________ www.elevate-m.com filmvideostuff.blogspot.com

June 5th, 2009, 09:47 AM	#12
Enrique Orozco Robles Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Chihuahua MEXICO Posts: 146	... I shoot a similar event on a theater about 2 months ago with my EX3.... 30 fps, 1080p... Made excelent looking SD-DVDs (mixing with SD close up cameras) and HD-BluRay files (only EX3 scenes) that looks STUNNING on a Bravia LCD through an WD-media player !! ...the 1080p files are the advantage over 720 for BluRay quality.... good luck __________________ Enrique Orozco - Sony/JVC/Nikon/Panny cams, DJI/Yuneec drones, VegasPro www.aerofilm.com.mx

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June 4th, 2009, 10:37 AM	#3
John Peterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Monroe, NY Posts: 703	There have been many discussions regarding how to get the best results if SD DVD is the final product. Several have argued that shooting 720p will produce a better SD DVD because less down conversion is required. And others argue differently. None of the threads have reached a definitive conclusion yet. If it means anything I plan to shoot a dance recital in about a week using 720p instead of 1280i to see how it works out. I understand that the interlacing can pose some problems with certain NLE software in terms of mixing up the field order. John

June 4th, 2009, 11:08 AM	#5
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	Hmm.. I have no SP modes on my EX3 - but I use 720P and downconvert in the NLE to SD. I do not think that the camera does a horrible downconwert from the Cmos 1080P to 720P. The compression will be smaller in 720P than in 1080P - maybe that does a different. I have not been able to do a usable downconvert from any HD - interlaced format. I suggest a progressive format - if you want 720P or 1080P I would suggest a test by yourself, what you like...

June 4th, 2009, 12:34 PM	#7
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Buy MxR adaptor and 2 Transcend 32GB SDHC Class 6 cards. You will be able to record nearly 4 hours straight through in HQ mode.

June 4th, 2009, 01:09 PM	#8
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	I think you want to think about framerates first then resolution. If you need or want 60 frames a second then you have to shoot 720p to get that and stay progressive. If you do not want 24 or 30 frames a second, then you will not want to shoot 1080p

June 4th, 2009, 03:52 PM	#9
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	For me I shoot everything in 720/50p if it is for SD DVD. I find the downconversion sharp through FCP/Compressor. I have tried all other formats with the EX1 and this works. You wont save anytime with changing formats.

June 4th, 2009, 06:21 PM	#10
John Peterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Monroe, NY Posts: 703	Personally, I would render MPEG2 intended for DVD as interlaced. That will give it greater compatibility with both progressive DVD players that will combine the fields into a single frame and send them to a progressive HDTV and also a PC with any decent software DVD player. But as I said, you will have to be careful your NLE doesn't mix up the field order. John

June 5th, 2009, 06:16 PM	#13
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	The secret advantage to shooting 1080 if you are cutting in SD or even if you are cutting 720 is that you can push into the shot without any loss in quality, so it is like giving yourself another side by side close up camera all the time. This can save your butt.

June 6th, 2009, 09:16 PM	#14
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	I thought the 1080p Blu-ray spec was for 24p only. I don't think you can put a 1080p30 framerate on a BD, but I might be wrong. If I am right, unless you shoot 24p, then 1080 does not help you much with Blu-ray.