DV Info Net

DV Info Net (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-pro-handhelds/)
-   -   EX1 Tips and Tricks (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-pro-handhelds/466288-ex1-tips-tricks.html)

Jonathan Betz October 22nd, 2009 06:57 PM

EX1 Tips and Tricks
 
Hey everyone.

I am about to work on a shoot with an EX1, and since I have never used this camcorder before I'm wondering if there are any tips or tricks you might be able to offer. I am familiar with camcorders like the XL2, XHA1, and FX1, and so I'm sure it will be fairly easy to get acquainted with the EX1, but I am interested in any of those those little quirks you always have to figure out with a new camera...things to do, things not to do, anything you think might be helpful.

Thanks for the help.

Brooks Graham October 22nd, 2009 07:50 PM

It would be nearly impossible to recommend highly enough Doug Jensen's "Mastering the Sony PMW-EX1" DVD. I have his EX3 DVD and it's brilliant. He assumes that the "student" already has experience with other camcorders and presents just the information you need to get proficient with an EX1.

You can find it here: Vortex Media: VIDEO & PHOTO Tools and Training

... and at fine retailers like B&H, et. al.

Jonathan Betz October 22nd, 2009 08:31 PM

Thanks for the suggestion Brooks. Since I'm leaving to shoot on Sunday I'm not going to be able to wait for this DVD, but it's definitely great to know it's out there for the future.

Any other suggestions about resources, or just some tips themselves? Thanks all.

Brooks Graham October 22nd, 2009 10:36 PM

Use an IR filter. The two choices at the moment are one from B+W:

B+W | 77mm 486 Digital UV/IR Blocking Glass Filter | 65-098703

and the new one from Tiffen:

Tiffen 77mm T1 IR Filter :: Camera Accessories :: New Arrivals :: Equipment Sales :: Abel Cine Tech

Search this forum for "infrared" "IR" "contamination" and you'll learn why you might need one of these filters.

Don't leave the battery on the camera overnight. Some older firmware revs had an issue where the battery would drain when powered off. YMMV

<controversial> Only record to genuine SxS cards. Avoid consumer-grade SDHC flash/adapter hacks. </controversial>

You need a way to read the flash cards (SxS cards are Expresscard34 format or you can use the camera's USB connector) and the free XDCAM Clip Browser software from Sony to transfer the footage from the SxS cards. If you're going into FinalCut, you'll also need another free program from Sony named XDCAM Transfer.

The camera records so much detail that if you're delivery format isn't 1080 then consider shooting in 720p mode as downconversion is easier.

Download and read the Owner's Manual: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...downloads.html

Of course, these are just my humble opinions off the top of my head - apply grains of salt appropriately.

Okay, guys & gals, what else am I forgetting?

(hope that helps)

Perrone Ford October 22nd, 2009 10:47 PM

Giving us some idea of the nature of the shoot miht help us direct you to pertinent advice. Like picture profiles, or recording formats and speeds.

Brooks Graham October 22nd, 2009 11:37 PM

And also, if you're new to this kind of workflow, you might seriously consider a dry run beforehand - test everything from shooting all the way to the NLE.

Frank Casanova October 22nd, 2009 11:52 PM

-When you buy a filter for the front end, be sure it's a thin (3mm instead of normal 5mm thickness) if you want put the lens shade back on...otherwise won't fit back on.
-Be careful to not accidentally hit the Full Auto button with a knuckle...it'll drive you nuts trying to figure out why you can't do any manual overrides.
-Factory settings are purposely rather bland. Sony wants you to set your own Picture -Profile settings. That's where Jensen's video is very helpful. There are many PP settings on threads on this Forum.
-Yes, disconnect the battery on earlier models. Flaw in the firmware will drain them in a couple of hours.
-SxS cards are solid...However, I've had very little problems with MxR reader with HDSC cards...but if it's an important shoot, I might not gamble with the cheaper solution.
-Watch the focus. This lens is so sharp it's easy to be a tad out of focus. If it's an action shot or the camera is moving, I'll go to auto focus since I don't have the luxury of a focus puller.
-Camera runs hot, so keep it cool. I've had it shut down on me with the double whammy of high temperature AND high humidity (which doesn't let the internal heat build up dissipate.)
-Chip management system is a must. I've accidentally recorded over important material because I lost track of which cards had been transferred to a hard drive and which ones were ready to have all their clips deleted for new recording.
-Good news is the LCD screen is very accurate of what you're shooting. Pretty much what you see is what you're getting (Iris setting, Picture Profile settings, etc.)...Lots of other aids here too... Zebra Bars, Histogram, etc.
I love this camera...should do well for you.

Jonathan Betz October 23rd, 2009 07:05 AM

Thanks for all the great advice. I will look into IR filters, make sure to disconnect the battery at night, and be careful of the Full Auto button. I will also be sure to be careful of card management as well as the types of cards I am using.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford (Post 1436624)
Giving us some idea of the nature of the shoot miht help us direct you to pertinent advice. Like picture profiles, or recording formats and speeds.

I am shooting behind-the-scenes footage for a shoot in the mountains of southern California. The weather should be fairly mild, so I don't expect to experience overheating problems. As far as I know I will be shooting everything in 1080p 30fps. I'm not sure which picture profile to use for this purpose. Any suggestions?

Nathan Hudson October 23rd, 2009 11:00 PM

Turn Zebra off, Learn to use Peaking like it's your religion in conjunction with expanded focus, also learn picture profiles and what each setting does. You should be ok.

Leonard Levy October 24th, 2009 12:45 AM

Re IR filters forget the 486 - The Tiffen is the only one to get.

Nathan , why are you telling this guy to turn off zebras? - I always use them.

The most serious quirk is that you will be out of focus if you let your iris close to f8 or more. Very dangerous and unusual. Due to diffraction I guess, but downright weird in a camera.

Nathan Hudson October 24th, 2009 02:08 AM

because, Zebras are what screwed me, I hate them. They serve me no purpose, I can look at my picture and know what's blown out without having stripes across my picture. My situation involved white plastic rails for wakeboarders to slide around golden hour with the sun setting, of course the zebras went nuts and thought the sliders were blown out because they were sitting on dark water. So I adjusted the camera being a newb at that point and thought it was dark but trusted the camera's decision. LOTS of ruined footage. Never again. If I can't tell by my eye alone what is blown out and what isn't then obviously something is wrong with my vision. I tend to slightly underexpose my footage to be safe and I have a good feel now and am able to push that line. Learning yourself to make good judgement calls for picture quality is far more valuable than depending on a machine to tell you what's right. In contradiction as far as focus, I do depend on the machine somewhat but am constantly double checking myself to be sure. Focus is a tough cookie if you don't get it right. When people pay for HD they want that crisp HD they paid for. If it comes out soft, they are pretty much gonna think it sucks without understanding. So I use Peaking but am constantly hitting expand focus button, while recording. This is one reason, the HPX-300 from Panny looked like a great camera and then became something I WOULD NEVER get because lack of being able to do focus assist while recording. If I can't get in tight and see the edges and keep constantly checking to ensure my picture is crisp, WHILE RECORDING, i have no interest in the camera. Picture Profiles and fully understanding them is also crucial because Sony expects you to give your picture the look you want it and gives you unparalleled options to do so. Panny starts you off with "The Panny Look" and gives you less options.

Nathan Hudson October 24th, 2009 02:16 AM

in fact up until about 2 months ago, I didn't even use peaking. I would almost say try even doing that at first and then once you get that down, then use the extra tools, minus zebras. Again, I hate zebras. Wish they left them off my camera for a more useful function. Peaking is a way for me to solve my focus paranoia. LOL!

Paul Kellett October 24th, 2009 02:34 AM

How do you judge exposure when there's really bright sunlight in your eyes or on the screen ?
If you're in a hurry and need to get shots quick ?
Do you then use the viewfinder ?
Histogram ?
Even in bright sunlight i can still see the zebras.

Paul.

Doug Jensen October 24th, 2009 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Hudson (Post 1437128)
Turn Zebra off,.

That suggestion has to be the single worst advice I've ever seen on this forum.

I suggest you:
Use Zebra.
Use Peaking.
Do not use Auto-Focus
Do not use ATW
Use SteadyShot for hand-held shooting

Learn your camera and practice with it BEFORE you go out and shoot a real job.

Alister Chapman October 24th, 2009 05:57 AM

There are my youtube Tutorials on gamma, timelapse, the matrix and depth of field.
YouTube - ingenioustv's Channel

Soft pictures at f16-f8 is perfectly normal on a 1/2" camera. Until the EX came along very few cameras had the resolution to really show the diffraction limiting up. The higher the resolution the worse it looks, on an SD camera you would barely notice it. 1/3" cameras suffer from it even earlier (f5.6). It's not a fault or quirk, just the laws of physics at work.

Marcus Durham October 24th, 2009 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Hudson (Post 1437167)
because, Zebras are what screwed me, I hate them. They serve me no purpose, I can look at my picture and know what's blown out without having stripes across my picture.

They do serve a purpose when set up correctly. The zebras on the EX1 have two levels which you can set. So you can for example see what is going to be out of range and what a correctly exposed skintone is. Combined with the histogram I find the EX1 a pleasure to work with.

On my Z1 I had a habit of slightly underexposing, but (so far) with the EX1 I've been perfect every time.

Derek Reich October 24th, 2009 08:31 AM

I agree with everyone here that zebras are essential. Anyone who has been shooting professional video for any length of time has come to rely on them. I even use the histogram (call me crazy)..... but definitely leave them on and learn to use them.

As for the IR filter, it's only really necessary if you notice the IR (or far red to be more accurate) contamination in your image. It will be obvious, and usually only effects some black fabrics turning them magenta. I have a 486 for when this problem arises and it works like a charm, as long as you don't shoot full wide. (there is a minor cyan vignetting at full wide) The new Tiffen sounds promising, but has issues of it's own, so no IR filter is perfect. I wouldn't suggest using one all the time as some here have offered... but rather only when the IR problem is noticed.

The only other advice I would give is if you are going to be using a polarizer (and it sounds like you will be outdoors a lot), you MUST use a circular (opposed to a linear) polarizer on the EX series. You will experience an objective color shift with a linear polarizer.

Oh, yeah..... and not to be too redundant, get Doug's video.

Happy shooting

Tom Daigon October 24th, 2009 09:20 AM

After watching Dougs video with the EX3 in hand (twice), I felt extemley comfortable using all its capabilities.

Leonard Levy October 24th, 2009 03:43 PM

Alister - Interesting point about the f stops. I never noticed it on any other camera before but perhaps i never looked hard enough at say HVX footage.
It certainly is an issue on the EX-1 that is quite startling. Have you ever seen it on a 2/3" camera.

Re: Zebras - Nathan I think you hit the important point when you said that zebras "screwed you" when you were a "newbie". Its a tool that you didn't know how to use. Don't blame the tool for your failure.


Derek:
"The new Tiffen sounds promising, but has issues of it's own, so no IR filter is perfect."

This is the second time I've read something similar on this forum. What problems does the Tiffen filter have? I know of none except that requires a white balance but so does the 486.

Derek Reich October 24th, 2009 06:50 PM

Leonard-
From what I understand (but have not directly experienced myself since I do not own the Tiffen filter) the reds are somewhat altered or muted when using this filter. It does sound like something which can be corrected in post however, if you want to do that. There also is reportedly the expense of approximately a half stop or so of light loss. Please correct me if this is not accurate.

I have not found the need to re-white balance with the 486, it does not appear to alter my color temperature. It does do a wonderful job of resolving the near red contamination issue, but the vignetting is something I would rather not have to work around. I don't think trying to white balance to correct for the vignetting would work anyway and to be quite honest I have not even found the vignetting to be much of an issue for me. (most of the time)

I think we would all love to not have to deal with the problem at all, and not be required to have to place an additional piece of glass in front of the lens if we didn't have to. Most of the time, I don't have to.... but I'm not shooting weddings or concerts or corporate events where there might be a lot of black fabric which needs to be black causing me heartburn either. So my experience is admittedly different than what many here might be dealing with.

Just my perspective, that's all.... but I don't think it's entirely fair to rule another manufacturer's product out so steadfastly. There really is no perfect solution as of yet as far as I know.

Jonathan Betz October 24th, 2009 08:33 PM

Thanks everyone. Great advice.

Obviously experience is the best teacher, but I don't have the camera yet and will only get my hands on it when I arrive in California tomorrow (the day before the shoot starts). If I had more time (and more money...) I would definitely check out a DVD like Doug's, but you have all provided me with some great last-minute tips.

I did find Alister's Gamma and Color Matrix Youtube videos quite helpful, and I also was happy to learn about how to execute automatic focus pulls by viewing the sample lesson from Doug's video. Great stuff.

As a summary, here are some of the tips from this thread so far:

General Tips:
- disconnect the battery at night
- be careful not to accidentally press the "Full Auto" button
- camera runs hot (especially in high heat/high humidity)
- closing the irus to f/8 or more will cause loss of focus
- use peaking/expanded focus

Filters:
- get a Tiffen IR or 486 filter to avoid IR contamination when necessary
- use circular, not linear, polarizer filters

Thanks again. I will post again when I get back to let you all know how it went (and to possibly add some of my own tips to the thread).

Derek Reich October 24th, 2009 09:55 PM

You're on it Jonathan!
Have a great shoot, and enjoy working with the EX. It really is a wonderful camera.

One last tip I didn't think of if you don't already know about this.... but don't have the image stabilization turned on when you're on a tripod. This will cause some weird 'drift' at times where the lens is attempting to stabilize motion which isn't there. Only use the IS when hand-holding.

cheers
Derek

Leonard Levy October 25th, 2009 02:07 AM

Derek,

Along with Art Adams I was one of the people who tested this filter and I was overjoyed with it. if you look at Arts careful tests on the Pro Video Website he looked at vectorscope readings of a color chart before using the T1 IR and again after using it with a camera white balance. They were identical thus implying no color shifting other than a white balance. We saw no changes by eye either.

I haven't actually tested the light loss but it looks like less than 1/2 stop to my eye. Its a very light green if that is what is meant by it subtly affects the reds.

Nevertheless I guess its true, some light loss and the need to white balance are negatives, but extremely minor to my mind compared to vignetting at wide angle- which is not correctable. Unlike the 486 you can also stack other glass in front of it without worrying about weird reflections.

Other than a miraculously clear filter, to me its as near a perfect solution as anyone could have hoped for - Plus its cheap.

Alister Chapman October 25th, 2009 02:51 AM

I see diffraction softening on my PDW-700 when stopped down at f16-f11 all the time. As I said the higher the native resolution of the camera the worse the effect appears to be because the difference between soft and not soft is much greater. This is why if you use the EX in Auto it will ask for more ND whenever the aperture is past F8. On a 1/3" HDV camcorder the message to switch in more ND happens around F6.

Bob Grant October 25th, 2009 03:53 AM

Leonard,
As far as I know WB is not some harmless magic correction. If light from one part of the spectrum is being attenuated by a filter and WB is used to compensate then gain is being added in that part of the spectrum. By my very crude measurements based on the samples posted the loss in the reds is around 1 stop, probably more at the end of the visible spectrum.

That may or may not be an issue for some of us. I suspect it's going to have more impact for those like myself shooting stage productions where red is a very prominant color, I oftenly face the double whamy of red clothes lit with red light. On top of that I'm mostly wishing the EX had a longer lens so I've never come close to having to worry about the dreaded green vignette.

The other issue with stage shows is actually getting a clean light source to do a WB! Mostly I'm forced to trust the 3200K preset, it's been close enough so far. I could save a preset and hope I don't loose it somehow but I'm not the only person using the camera. So far the 486 has caused zero problems for me and many others.

On the other hand I have a WA adaptor, it hasn't had much use so far but when it does the T1 looks like the ideal answer if I think I'm going to have a problem.

Derek Reich October 25th, 2009 08:52 AM

Leonard-
Thanks for the additional input..... and as I said, I haven't even used the filter so I can certainly not speak with any experience using it.

I think what it all boils down to is what you are willing to deal with.... for some, re-white balancing may not be an issue while for others it may cause some difficulty. Losing any light sensitivity may be a problem for specific shooting situations, other times it won't make any difference at all. (maybe even help keep the iris in the coveted middle ground)
Some people will not tolerate the vignette of the 486, and I agree that having to place it foremost in a matte box or stacked on top of any other filters on the lens is a pain. I do admit that after shelling out around $300 for the 486 the price of the Tiffen is VERY attractive! I think I'll end up with both, and utilize them accordingly to my particular shooting scenarios.

It will be very interesting indeed to find out how the new EX cameras handle this far red issue in the coming weeks..... and to see if Sony has implemented a solution which may be incorporated into our current EX lineup.

cheers

Nathan Hudson October 25th, 2009 11:02 AM

Thanks Leonard, you got what i was saying to an extent. I wasn't necesarily saying, there isn't use for the zebras, however, they screwed me as a newb. So land learning to use the camera, people aren't going to be flying all over on the run. So taking their time and learning to use the camera, try really finding out what comes out of the camera instead of throwing on all the helpers. I still personally don't use them and all my footage comes out great!

How do you think people who shoot film are able to get good pictures? So NO, they are not ESSENTIAL. You don't NEED them to be a good camera operator. It's just a helper that if you choose to use, then feel free. Zebras are not something to learn by, but use after you learn the camera and it's capabilities. If you just throw on such helpers and only rely on what they say for everything and adjusting accordingly, then what did you learn out of it?

I say, if you have the time, try learning to shoot raw (without the helpers) then move into the helpers, such as peaking and zebras. Don't depend on them to tell you what to do. In other words you should be able to look at something and understand where your camera needs to be set. Whether you need to throw on more ND, or close down the iris, etc. Training your eye to know what you need to do in different situations is key. You'll be faster and better. Referencing a little helper after you have learned this may bring peace of mind, however it shouldn't be what dictates your settings.

What if someone wants you to shoot on a film camera instead? I have something this week where I am provided with an old Bolex 16mm film camera to shoot with. I'm glad I learned to not use zebra for that very reason. And in a few months I have a 35mm film shoot coming up as well.

Learn your cameras capabilities, understand how to analyze situations and set your camera accordingly. Stripes on a screen (zebras) ARE NOT ESSENTIAL, and you don't NEED them. Whether you choose to use them as a visual reminder or not, is up to you.

Leonard Levy October 25th, 2009 11:46 AM

Allister , Thanks for the notes on diffraction. I've always heard that it could degrade the image but have never seen it and I've talked to amny shooters with teh same experience, but I'll bet we've just never looked close enough and i'll bet you are right that the increased resolution of the EX is to blame. Very enlightening. That's why I like these forums.

Bob,
One stop in the reds? It sounds awfully high to me, but I know you are an exacting technician. I won't be able to test my filter till my camera gets out of the Sony repair gulag, but I will ASAP.
Am I right in understanding that you're saying that the consequent re- white balance may work fine in all respects except that it will add noise to the red channel? I guess that does make sense. I don't usually worry about those sorts of issues but maybe that's because I'm a shooter not a post person. Also the EX is so much better on the noise front than many other cameras that I don't worry about it much.


Nathan,
We all develop our own methods of shooting and I'm happy your methods are working for you, but I think you doth protest a bit too much about the evils of zebras.

As a brief insight to the reason people use zebras - its not as a crutch for those too inexperienced to trust their eyes.
I've been shooting for over 25 years as have many of my friends. We all began in film with light meters. We all noticed long ago that we could not trust viewfinders ( esp LCD's) because they could often fool you into thinking you had more or less exposure than you would see on a monitor later. This is especially true in situations that are dark or where there is not a great deal of contrast. In fact this is also true of monitors in general.

As a result every shooter I know uses his zebras as one tool in the arsenal of making sure you have proper exposure. I prefer to have a monitor on set as well and I love the new LCD's like my expensive Panasonics that have waveforms as well. Most serious professional sets will have a waveform monitor unless cost or working style prohibits it. Many times I've been fooled into thinking I had the right exposure when a waveform check tells me I'm a little off. The zebra like the waveform is an exact measurement and thus is indispensable to me.

Relying on the viewfinder alone I fear will eventually catch you in the shorts, but if you've found a way of working you're happy with my best to you.

David Herman October 25th, 2009 03:31 PM

Jonathan, a late repeat because the most important thing for a newbie ex1 user is missing from your list. Doug Jensen's dvd. Skip a couple of meals but if you ain't got time to fully put the camera through the hoops, watch the dvd as many times as time allows. Nothing else will provide you with a better way to use the camera. Forget filters and the like if you need to save money. Off colour black will be the least of your problems with this camera in your hands for the first time. I had my first shoot two days after getting the camera and have been shooting for 20 plus years. The dvd saved my rear end.

Zsolt Gordos October 26th, 2009 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Hudson (Post 1437169)
use the extra tools, minus zebras. Again, I hate zebras. Wish they left them off my camera for a more useful function. Peaking is a way for me to solve my focus paranoia. LOL!

Excuse moi for barking into the business of EX1 owners - I have to second what Nathan said from a V1 user point of view. Zebras are annoying and useless, peaking gives me the sharpness I need even looking at the much worse V1 LCD screen. Zebras off, peaking on, stress off.

Doug Jensen October 26th, 2009 05:19 PM

Zsolt,

I hope you realize that zebras are for exposure and peaking is for focus. They have aboslutely nothing to do with each other, except that both of them are critical tools for any professional camera operator to understand and use.

John Mitchell October 26th, 2009 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Hudson (Post 1437627)
How do you think people who shoot film are able to get good pictures? So NO, they are not ESSENTIAL. You don't NEED them to be a good camera operator. It's just a helper that if you choose to use, then feel free. Zebras are not something to learn by, but use after you learn the camera and it's capabilities. If you just throw on such helpers and only rely on what they say for everything and adjusting accordingly, then what did you learn out of it?

Umm people who shoot film use light meters.... either way you still need to measure the light somehow.

Personally I have found that while zebras can vary slightly from one camera to another they are generally very accurate once you've established your working profile. On the other hand LCD screens and viewfinders can vary greatly from model to model and individual cameras - many even have a brightness and contrast controls. That is why it does pay to learn with zebras on, especially when you get a new camera, to familiarise yourself with the exact setup you need in bright sunlight, under studio lights, backlit situations etc.

I would turn around what you said and say "to be a professional cameraman who can use a range of broadcast and pro level cameras, you need to understand and be able to interpret zebras".

Zsolt Gordos October 28th, 2009 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen (Post 1438211)
Zsolt,

I hope you realize that zebras are for exposure and peaking is for focus. They have aboslutely nothing to do with each other, except that both of them are critical tools for any professional camera operator to understand and use.

Doug, I am fully aware of that. While both zebras and peaking are displayed simultaneously zebras may disturb the screen in the extent that peaking renders useless thus no proper focusing possible. While assessing exposure is possible through this graphic meter thingy in the corner (not sure how they call it) or by judgement of the cameraman I would suggest switching off zebras for focus critical HD work. On the other hand CMOS sensors are less prone to overexposure vs CCD, therefore I cannot see any reason why to occupy my LCD with zebras.
Btw. being on the LCD screen is where they are interrelated, otherwise they really have nothing to do with each other.

Doug Jensen October 28th, 2009 03:27 AM

When used properly, Zebras should only be visible in a very small percentage of the screen -- and sometimes not at all. If you're seeing so much zebra that it is interferring with your focusing ability, then you are not using zebras properly. Perhaps that is why some people don't like zebras, because they aren't using them right.

Zebras are not some new gimmick that Sony added to the EX cameras. Zebras have been part of every professional camera for at least the last 30 years and are an essential tool to setting the proper exposure unless you want to drag around a waveform monitor or light meter with you.

It doesn't matter to me whether someone chooses to use them or not, but it does matter to me when someone who does not understand them says they are useless. If ridiculous statements like the ones made on this thread go unchallenged, then other people, who do want to learn how to shoot professionally, might be left with the wrong impression.

Some of the posters on this thread completely contradict themselves. For example, in one post someone says "I tend to slightly underexpose my footage to be safe . . ." and then later they say "I still personally don't use them and all my footage comes out great!".

Well which is it?? You can't underexpose and have footage that comes out great.

I don't understand why people work so hard to avoid learning the proper way to use a camera.

Piotr Wozniacki October 28th, 2009 03:36 AM

I fully agree with Doug; zebras are NOT to be seen by their very design (at least not over to much an area) - so how are they cluttering your view?

If they do, you're overexposing anyway!

Ed Kukla October 28th, 2009 06:02 AM

Vewfinders are all over the place for judging levels, zebras are not. zebras are reliable measuring tools for setting exposure, LCD screens are not.
But I'm only speaking from 20+ years of experience shooting for fortune 500 companies and major broadcast and cable networks; what do I know?

Marcus Durham October 28th, 2009 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla (Post 1439013)
Vewfinders are all over the place for judging levels, zebras are not.

Exactly. I can't be the only EX1 user who has accidently knocked the stupidly placed LCD backlight brightness buttons up or down when the camera is in an awkward position and wondered why the image suddenly looked wrong!

Adam Reuter October 28th, 2009 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki (Post 1438969)
I fully agree with Doug; zebras are NOT to be seen by their very design (at least not over to much an area) - so how are they cluttering your view?

If they do, you're overexposing anyway!

This is an ignorant statement as well. So let's clarify for the newbies again!

Zebras can be set to various brightness ranges by percentage. IF SET TO 100 or above you should avoid seeing any zebras at all to avoid blowing out part of your picture. HOWEVER, if your zebra is set to a lower value (say, 70%) then you WILL see zebras as this is directly related to the brightness of that portion of the image.

This is why it's important to buy Doug's DVD and research/learn the tools before you use them for serious work. I would NEVER use a camera I haven't used before on a pro shoot. Know why? Because I've made that mistake before (luckily on a non-paid shoot) and as much as these cameras are the same they are different in nuanced ways. Those nuanced differences can cost you more money in the end.

On some cameras you can't change the Zebra setting. And if it's set to say 70 and you expose to not see any zebras your footage will be underexposed. So learn (Google it, darn it!) how to use zebra stripes, read the f'in manual and use the histogram while you're at it too!

Don't have time to watch Doug's DVD? Hopefully you've downloaded the manual for the camera and read through it cover to cover. Not skimmed it...

And about the filmmaker comment. Before light meters people used charts and calculated things based on exposure/f-stop and weather. Lots of trial and error and wasted film. Nowadays filmmakers use lightmeters so as to not play a guessing game. The light meter on a video camera? Zebra stripes/waveforms/histograms. If film cameras could have them built-in I bet they would! With that though...video dudes definitely use light meters "just in case." LOL!

Piotr Wozniacki October 28th, 2009 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen (Post 1438968)
When used properly, Zebras should only be visible in a very small percentage of the screen -- and sometimes not at all.

Adam,

I was referring to the above statement of Doug's; note the "When used properly" part.

Of course when you use and set Zebra 2 to 70% for Caucasian skin tone, it WILL show in all areas that lit at 60 to 80%. But, you only use it in interviews and such, so - apart from the interviewee's face whose lighting you want to control - there' s not much more in the viewfinder that might get "cluttered" with it.

Other than with interviewing, I almost exclusively use Zebra 1, and that is at 100% by design. So call me ignorant, but I'm standing by what I said.

Adam Reuter October 28th, 2009 07:06 PM

I apologize for my ignorance about your reference. I took the "when used properly" part as "proper exposure."

And indeed if using Zebra 1 then your stripes will always reference 100IRE. Sorry for calling you out, I just don't want any new EX videographers such as the OP underexposing their footage if his menu options are set differently.

Having used a camera that did not have 100IRE as its base reference (you couldn't even change the setting, so without a manual you had no idea what it was reading) I have made this mistake before.

Simply stated, again for new videographers: Not all zebra stripes are created equal. Read the manual and check your menu settings. Or better yet watch/buy Doug's video...now.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:29 AM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network