Some bad news for UK based people. Just went to Amazon to order a couple more ATP cards and the price has gone up to £59! My previous cards cost £41 so that's a pretty big jump.

However having just done some sums, it still works out cheaper than importing them from the USA. Although the cards are far cheaper in the USA by the time you've added delivery and the fact that Parcelforce will intercept the cards and slap you with a 20 quid handling fee and import tax, Amazon still works out marginally cheaper.

That said I am tempted to order one of these up from the USA to try:

ATP 32GB 150x Class 6 ProMax SDHC Card ATP 32GB ProMAX SDHC Card Detail Page

One of those combined with the lockable MxR would be an awesome combination.

Yesterday had a frantic phone call from a client who had lost expensive to replace shots.
All on a SxS card. They had a DIT who thought he had transferred all the clips but hadn't.
I don't hold out much hope as they'd formatted the cards before returning them.
Once again all I can say (again) is that due to the human element these dodgy SDHC cards can be a lot safer than the expensive SxS media.

An update on my issue with Hoodman: Last Monday I called bright and early to tell them about the adapter and card that had failed. I was told they'd send out a replacement that day and it would arrive in two days. Yesterday (Friday) it had still not arrived. So I called again and was told, "Apparently someone left it in the back and didn't get it off to UPS."

I just got an email from UPS saying they have a package en-route to me from Hoodman.

Footage doesn't really exist unless you have it in two places. It's one thing taking a copy onto a laptop during a lunch hour on a shoot, but anyone who copies footage and then formats cards when in the field needs their heads seeing to.

Bob, I don't think that the sloppiness of the DIT is an indictment of SxS cards. Those files would be JUST as lost if they had been shot onto SD cards and the DIT failed to copy them properly. So, your argument is invalid. Thanks for playing.

The implication being that if you have SxS cards you might not have enough of them to complete a days shooting. So you are forced with the choice of offloading and formatting the card on location. This is not ideal.

With SDHC you have no excuse at all for not having enough cards. I cleared 6 16gb SDHC cards in one day a few weeks back. In SxS terms that's about 3 grands worth of card you'd need to be carrying with you just for that shoot.

You're absolutely right, Marcus. And in a perfect world, I'd own enough SxS cards to cover any shooting situation. But, I don't. So, I got my MxR/SDHC combos with the intent to have reserve recording time available to me in the event that I could not schedule time to offload files during a "paid" shoot. If this was just a hobby for me, I'd buy nothing but SDHC cards. The only real problem I've had with the "offloading during the shoot" idea has been the Shotput software. I really truly wanted that software to be the safe way for me to offload, make multiple copies and prep the SxS cards for reuse, but the way I was treated by those people (Imagine Products) was insulting and shameful, to say the least. So, I use the ClipBrowser with CRC turned on. Oh well, life moves on.

No, but it is an indictment of a workflow which forces a "copy and erase" step. It's easy to be critical of the DIT, but wiping the wrong card is an accident waiting to happen. Same for P2.
Not at all - because after copying the SD cards don't need to be wiped - they stay as their own backup. So Bobs argument is spot on. (And the cost saving of not needing a DIT may go far towards paying for enough SDHC cards.)

I'm old enough to remember the arguments when seat belt wearing was made compulsory in the UK. The people against at the time would argue that there were occasions where accidents had happened and the victims had been trapped by their seatbelts. Perfectly valid argument, but overlooked that for every life lost in such a way, about nine had been lost through NOT wearing a seatbelt.

And from what I hear it's a similar situation here. Providing the cards are checked before use, it seems that whilst a few people have lost material through faulty SDHC cards, many more have lost material through human error in downloading. Since you don't know what type of accident is awaiting you round the bend, all you can do is take the action that is statistically best. So I wear my seatbelt in a car, and don't use a "download and erase" workflow.

Do you have actual statistics about the number of accidents with the SDHC cards vs. the SxS cards?

No, and I doubt formal statistics exist (unlike for car accidents). I'm going mainly on the basis of disasters I've heard about first hand, backed up by stories on forums such as this.

First hand, I've now heard of 2 disaster stories with P2, one with SxS. In each case, there was no fault as such with the hardware, in each case it was human error.

Second hand, I've heard of many more like that (Bobs being only the most recent) whilst the great majority of the SDHC disaster stories seem to come down to failure to test cards properly before first use. Generally those stories seem to be less catastrophic ("the camera stopped recording") whilst the P2/SxS ones typically involve the loss of at least an entire cards worth of data, and the loss not realised until much later.

I've heard hardly any stories of SDHC cards recording properly at the time, but going faulty later. At least they allow you to "download and keep", as opposed to "download and erase".

OK, thank you.

There are plenty of Media Error stories with the SDHC cards. I've had my own. Flash cards wear our, and Multi-Layer Cell (MLC) cards are lower quality. Most of the errors seem to be centered around switching between two different cards while recording and from pressing record before the CF write light has turned off. I can't say if that is the only problem. So, I would guess that it is better to use identical card types and capacities to deal with the card switches. Also, faster cards may reduce the time used to write the media, but I can't say for sure. I will say that I had trouble with both of my Transcend 16GB (green stripe) SDHC's and not my Sandisk Extreme III 30MB/sec 16GB SDHC.

One issue that occurs to me is that some are not backing up cards. Instead now that many NLEs offer the ability to import shots directly from the cards the 'old school' paranoia is not being followed. To me this is very risky regardless of what type of media is used. It's certainly more risky when the cards which were rented have to be returned.

During a shoot there's many things going on. Director wants to check the shot and with tapeless this can be done very quickly and in some ways safer. Importing the shot straight into an NLE is a very quick and powerful way to work on set, one could even do a quick check on a key for the director. The real danger I see in this is a shot can get missed.

From someone who works in rentals perspective I wish for the day when there's a 100% reliable cheap media available for any of the tapeless cameras. If someone leaves a tape in a camera it's easy enough to know what to do. Files left on cards are not such a simple matter.

I'm seriously reconsidering using SDHC cards for future work.

I've had one Transcend card that has been nothing but trouble, I don't use it anymore, that was a few months ago.

I was on a shoot a couple of weeks ago and had a class 3 SanDisk card jam up on me with about 30 minutes of footage on it. I'd used this card for months without problems, now it isn't recognised by either my EX3, card reader or computer. It is completely dead.

I was lucky that here wasn't anything crucial on it, but I still had to go to my director and let her know that there had been "a problem".

I'm going to bite the bullet and buy some SxS cards, sure they're ludicrously expensive, but if something goes wrong again at least I don't have to tell my client that I lost their footage because I was cutting costs on memory.

" if something goes wrong again at least I don't have to tell my client that I lost their footage because I was cutting costs on memory."

A better investment of a few grand is a parallel recording device such as a Nanoflash which itself offers parallel recording to two separate flash cards.

I finally enquired about what SD cards are in my e-LCR adapters (bought already assembled 16GB ones) and discovered they are Sandisk Ultra II 16GB cards. Now I believe from memory that Ultra II are Class 4.

I haven't had any issues to date (touch wood)

correction: the card that failed on me was a Sandisk Class 4.

And whilst the nanoflash is appealing, it feels like more of a hassle to carry around an extra piece of gear on my camera.

I haven't heard of any reliability issues with SxS cards, does anyone know of any problems?

Now here's something interesting....

At the weekend I ordered up some MXM cards. They arrived today and after some quick tests on the face of it they appear to be faster than the MXR's.

Put a new ATP card into the MXM, overcrank to 50fps and you'll get 3 minutes of recording (90 seconds real time) before the camera bombs out. Try that with the same card in an MXR and the camera quits after 22 seconds (12 seconds real time).

Faster chips in the adaptor? Either way it looks like there is more headroom.

All the tests were done with near identical moving images in the viewfinder.

Hope to do some more extensive tests soon.

Thanks for that Marcus.
Was that 50fps with a 25fps timebase?
That's very impressive!

25 fps timebase, so yes I was very surprised. OK so it still bombed out after a few minutes but the fact it worked at all was surprising.

And it is the adaptors, not the SDHC cards because it was the same card in both.

When I get time I'll test this fully. But on the face of it there appears to be more headroom on these new adaptors. And headroom is a good thing for normal recording because I believe (and correct me if I am wrong) the camera writes in short bursts.

And kudos to MXM who got the cards quicker to me from Australia than it's taken a UK retailer to send me a new stills camera!

I've never had a problem with an SxS card. In that respect they're worth the price.

I do have MxR adapters but hold them in reserve if I should run out of capacity with the SxS cards. So far that hasn't happened.

As for recording to an external device, it's OK if you're in a controlled environment. But if you're out in the field, literally, and are running around with the camera handheld, you run the risk of dislodging the cable between the camera and recorder at the worst possible time.

Also, there's yet another device that requires battery power, and one more piece of equipment, in addition to audio gear, to be concerned about.

Marcus,

Are these MxM adapters their new lockable ones? Did you buy them separately or as a kit - adapter with ATP card in it? I hope, they test the assembly before shipping...

The cards are MxM lockable. I bought 2 adaptor cards and 1 ATP.

The ATP card was not pre-installed and came in the same packaging as my Amazon card.

I'd much rather test myself than put blind faith in someone else testing for me. Many of our cameras are running different versions of the firmware. I recall reading that some people have even found speed inconsistancies between Slot A and B. Test the cards and adaptors with your own cameras so you know how they will react in the real world.

Makes sense!..

I just received my MxM lockable adaptors and fitted them up with 32gig Sandisk Extreme 30MB/s class 10 SDHC cards.
They so far seem to go like a rocket !!
Will give them a full test this weekend

harb

I don't have the EX1 (r) yet, but recognize the same problem with Transcend cards.
I use the 16gb ones for a photocamera. Once in a while the file system of the disk will just corrupt out of the blue. Resulting in 'unknown media'. Solution is to format and repartition in windows. I learned it usually happens after the first 0-30 photo's. After that it seems safe to continue. (never had it fail on me after that point, knock knock)

But it seems Transcend sdhc cards are not really consistent.

Here's a nice simular story: Please help - Transcend SD card shows up empty after expensive shoot : Sony EX Series XDCAM

But i wonder why that guy goes cheap for a thousands of dollars production. :-)))

Many of us have never had any kind of issue using SD cards in EX camera. Personally I have 8 x 16GB Transcend and they've been faultless.

The all appear to be a similar type of card from the outside at least, all check out OK on the serial number checker too.

I think the issue is that the cards have a spec target wider than the EX handles. This means you have to test the cards individually. If the card tests good, it's good and vice versa. It seems a few cards may go bad though but that seems rare.

There are several things to do to test but the first step for me is but two matching cards in the two slots and record straight through without stopping. You should have NO MEDIA ERRORS. If there's an error, return the card.

You want FLAWLESS, not mostly works.

test as much as you like, my card was working "flawlessly" for at least three months before it corrupted completely.

as a professional I suppose I'm just risk averse - I won't be using SD for any critical shooting.

Same here. I'd had my Transcend/MxR's for a few months and they had tested perfectly. Then, prepping for a shoot one day and making sure the cards were empty, one of them took a dirt nap and was not recognized by the camera no matter what I did. It's back at Transcend now and they are replacing it, but I'll never trust either of them on a paying job.

As has been pointed out, the Transcend cards are not to be trusted. It's probably not the SDHC solution at fault here, but a change in the Transcend manufacturing process earlier in the year.

All my Transcend cards have been put to one side and I'm now shooting only on ATP Pro cards.

Marcus, are you shooting on Promax or Promax 2 cards ?
The Promax 2 cards are SLC, which is better.
Where do you get your ATP cards from ?
I'm also thinking about the new Sony memory stick adaptor but i'm wondering if that'll work without a further firmware upgrade.
I'm shooting at the moment with the Transcend and MXR's, no problems so far but sometimes i worry about it.

Thanks.
Paul.

I'm shooting onto the standard Promax. The last time I looked the Promax 2 only went up to 8gb.

Amazon UK stock the Promax cards but they hiked the price up recently.

You are now better off going to the MxM website as they sell both the 16gb and 32gb versions of the cards. Also take a look at their new lockable adaptor cards. On first impressions the cards appear to be faster than my MxR's which can only be a good thing (see further up this thread).

I ordered my cards last weekend and they turned up Wednesday. From Australia! The only thing to watch out for is the courier will sting you for import duty and VAT (in my case £24 which was for 2 adaptors and 1 16gb card although I can claim the VAT portion back).

Is there any difference now between the MXR and MXM adaptor ?
I've read somewhere that there's an actual size difference.
I have 2 of the early MXR readers, i've never had any problems.

How are EX users getting on with the Hoodman cards ? Are they still deemed reliable ?
Thanks, Paul.

I own 2 Hoodman cards...which I got 2 months ago. Well, last month one of them failed on me and I called Hoodman and they replaced it free of charge.

Since then, I have had no problems and I use the Kennington SxK adapter. But I also use the Transend red strip 16gb cards...and so far no problems, but I have noticed that the red to green time is a little longer....like 7 to 10 seconds.

HTH

Marcus (or anybody), did we determine if the color of the stripe on the Transcend (red or green) cards was the determining factor of which was the most reliable? Both of mine were purchased early in 2009 and are red stripes.

I know of people using older red stripe cards that have had trouble free operation pretty much since the SDHC solution was discovered. The determining factor with the Transcends seems to be manufacturing date or manufacturing location. Either the manufacturing process was changed slightly to reduce costs or perhaps there's more than one factory being used and the cards are slightly different (although still within Class 6 spec). Either way, it's a lottery for EX1 users.

I'm not sure if SLC v MLC matters since Sony seem to have green lighted MLC use for their new SxS cards and adaptors. You are still looking at being able to make lots of write cycles. Cautious users might want to renew their cards every couple of years.

Paul, I will use the MxM lockable cards and the 16gb ATP card. The ones Marcus is using at the moment. I havent recorded much with them yet (using SxS cards) but no problems so far.

I cant say much about the Transcend cards, No error messages with them at all but for some reason I have more faith in the MxM ATP combo.

I think i'm going to hold off spending any money on cards for the time being until the proper Sony adaptor, the MEAD-MS01, gets released, then i'll get the recommended Sony memory sticks aswell, i reckon about £300 will get me enough to shoot for a day.

Interestingly, on the Sony site which show's the adaptor it says that existing EX1's and EX3's will need a firmware upgrade which is internet downloadable.

Sony : MEAD-MS01 (MEADMS01) : Features : United Kingdom

Paul.

Remember this is Sony prices we're talking about :-)

I think the firmware update will probably relate to the camera being able to measure the write limit for each card. It might even address the way the EX1 writes to the cards.

The Sony adaptors are probably the way to go but many of us need to shoot now and can't wait or rely on unreliable Transcend cards. We also are yet to find out the pricing.