My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

I'm working on a fitness program for Latin America. I'm having the hardest time getting my EX1Rs to look good on my Hispanic talent. I can't seem to get rid of the yellow in the skin tone. Here's some screen grabs shot during a rough lighting test during set construction.

Sequence 01.Still001 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still002 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still003 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I'm using fluorescent softboxes for key and fills at 5600K and some Coollights 5600K Fresnels for rims.

EX1 WB is set to 5600K. Picture Profile is "Standard" factory settings and just changed the matrix to FL Light, gama is set to CINE3 and skin tone detail is on at -40 intensity. I have a bunch of other picture profiles, but this seemed to get us the closest...

But we're still not close to satisfied, and I'm hoping you all can help me get more natural skin tone.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

It is a well known fact that the picture profile that comes set out of the box has a yellowish hue. Search and you'll find discussions. Look in the picture profile sticky here for some profiles.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...e-recipes.html

Some other discussion threads:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...edit-post.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...r-weekend.html

I use the one in the vortex training DVD as well as true color.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

Also try white balancing rather than using the 5600k preset. In many cases the results are very different given the way the individual color components are handled.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

Thanks guys,

Hmm... I've tried every preset (I think) that's listed in the "recipes" forum on this site (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...e-recipes.html).

Vortex (Jensen's) seems to add a bit of green plus the yellow. It's far worse for this setup.

B. Raven's seems to be the best, but still yellow.

Wolfgang's messed with the detail too much, but the color was still off, but off in a different way.

Bloom's is similar to what I"m using.

Oliver N's makes her look dead.

I've used a lot of these presets for other situations fine, but for this studio setup, I can't seem to kick the yellow out of the shot and get it more healthy looking.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

Have you considered using some violet and pink gels on the key lights to kill some of the yellow?

With that strong blue background you will be making the natural yellows in their skin tones stand out.

You will want to kill that with some opposing color in the key (opposing to yellow = violet then add some pink.red to make them look more healthy).

Once you do that I expect you will be able to tweak the camera and make them look more healthy and less jaundiced.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

Oh, yeah. Good idea on the gels. I have some old magenta gels around, so I'll give those a shot. I might have to get some less intense magenta, but I'll give it a go. Great suggestion. I will try it and post some pics back.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

Ok, thanks to the gel suggestion by Chris, I'm making a lot of progress.

I happened to have some dark magenta gels from a previous project, so I slapped them on a 650w Fresnel and LED bank (my main key lights). Then opposite the key, I put another gel on my rim to the left/behind of the talent. The gels might be a bit too intense in the back, but it does add an artsy look... but it's a bit much for my taste.

I changed my PP to "A Ships. Cine V" and tweaked it a bit from there.

Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Any further suggestions?

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

Try doing a White balance with the blue background lights turned off. I suspect they may be your problem

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

The colours were easy to correct in Premiere, using RGB curves, just add more Magenta. Here is a screen grab which took less than 30 seconds to achieve.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

Try using a blank picture profile with just the Matrix changed to FL-Light to get rid of the green/yellow cast from the fluorescent lamps (still present in many "pro" video lamps) or the Cinema Matrix for a more balanced look.

You can mix and match picture profile settings taking just the bits you need from each profile.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

The thing that always baffles me is why many videogarphers try to achieve the perfect colour balance in camera. Colour grading is an art form in itself and you can achieve so many different looks or moods. I personally try to shoot with as few adjustments as possible and then colour correct at a later stage.

If you have any feature film DVDs with bonus disks, then take a look at some of the behind the scenes clips. They are usually flat and dull. But after they have been colour graded they take on a totally different look. Most professional stills photographers are now shooting RAW capture with a view to colour correcting at a later stage, there is no reason why we shouldn't do the same, within the limits of our camera (I know RAW shooting is not an option for most video capture).

With so many guys now shooting video using HDSLR and other lower priced HD camcorders, I feel that to stay ahead in this game we have to offer something better than "out of the box colours" .

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

That is much better. Now they don't look sick. I personally like the little pop of magenta in the rim. Since you are using strong colors in the background you can blend them into the foreground with your colored backlight.

If you want to try a bit more you can play around with gels in the orange range of the color wheel on the key if you want to emphasize their tan more. Otherwise you are in good shape.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

I have just the opposite philosophy of my friend Vincent. I am not running a Hollywood studio and I don't have the time or interest in grading and waiting for renders. If I can adjust the camera's paint settings to give me the final look that I want for my video, then why waste time grading in post? I am not a professional colorist, nor do I want to piss away my time doing something I could have done with no extra effort at the the time of shooting. Plus, during shooting, the paint settings are being applied at the full bit-depth of the camera before any compression or signal quality reduction, so all things being equal, the results will be cleaner.

In my opinion, grading has become popular lately because DSLRs do not have any real paint settings to control the picture in the camera -- so you have to shoot flat. There's no choice. But that is not the case with my professional XDCAM camcorders. I can get the look I want in-camera. I don't need to "keep my options" open because I already have decided the look I want. In fact, I look at any grading or filtering that has to be done in post as failure on my part to shoot the video correctly in the first place. And I don't have to buy any extra colorizing software or drives to hold all the renders.

That's my philosophy.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

I subscribe to this theory and workflow as well. I do edit and grade for a lot of other shooters and they are shocked by what a few clicks can do to the footage they thought looked good. And not that it needs fixing, just with the tools available these days, ANY footage can be improved. And beyond that, grading can influence the storytelling. Did a grading/motion graphics session with a producer who shoots and edits her own material just yesterday. It would have been fine as is but after i was done, she couldn't stop talking about how much better it looked. She'll be back anytime she has a project!
When I shoot either DSLR or xf300, i go for a flatter profile which makes matching other cameras much easier. Also, since I don't have a pro field monitor, I'd rather be safe on color settings than get bit by baking them in during shooting.
Valid points to both workflows but I also make more money when I grade! ;)

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

The beauty of working with digital media is that we all have our own individual way of working, and if it works for you then who can say you are wrong. I know a few same day wedding shooters for whom grading would involve far too much time, so my working method would not be their first choice.

Yes I would love to have everything looking perfect straight out of camera, but this rarely happens, so for me the best option is to shoot as clean as possible and do my alterations at a later stage.

Grading is just another tool to master, but the extra effort is often well worth the extra time spent.

p.s. with a nVidia Cuda card and Premiere there is no waiting to render, my 1920 x 1080 files fly on the timeline.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

Vincent,
It's not just the wedding shooters who don't have enough time. It's every production company that receives an overly ambitious finishing schedule as a requirement for getting the job, or needs to keep editing right up until they cna just barely make the last Fedex. Sure, it would be great to color correct everything the way I used to do when I shot film, but economic realities of production often dictate that projects be completed in a shorter time frame than I used to have just to view my dailies.
As a DP, I need to take the completion schedule into consideration when working to give my clients the best lookig footage I can create. If I know they have time and $$ for a color correct, I may have a bit more leeway in my exposures and use of gamma settings, but getting the color spot-on and matching cameras on multi-camera shoots are things I'd really rather not leave to postproduction, no matter how generous the budget.
And I have to agree with Doug, that the idea is really to do it right the first time and every time.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

Don't get me wrong, I can see the point of getting footage right at the time of shooting. I know what it is like to show the art director or client the footage before it has been graded, it really doesn't give a new client a feeling of confidence that you were the right man for the job. I often have to do a quick sample grade to show how the end result will look.

Knowing what your gear can and can't do is vital to any assignment, and yes, using Doug's excellent profiles I too can produce good looking clips straight out of the camera, and have done so on numerous jobs. But now with the introduction of HDSLR cameras, cheaper HD camcorders and price concious clients , I see many "bread and butter" jobs going to guys who can knock it out cheaply. I made the effort to raise my game looking at everything from better sound equipment and sound editing to learning about colour grading. It has taken time but now I can command a higher fee and produce a better end result. I may spend extra time adjusting the colours and grading, but I charge for that time.

I still have a lot to learn, but I am getting there. The key to success is to try all the permutations and see what works best for you.

Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)
 

I think many are being too simplistic about grading. Grading is not just a simple 3-way CC or curves adjustment. Spend 10 minutes watching a Colorist and you will see how much is involved in 'simple' shots.

There is absolutely no way to 'grade' in-camera.

Personally, I can spend little time grading in Premiere and AE, but the results can make a huge difference. For most projects, I give myself a fairly workable/adjustable image. Because everything gets edited together in one project, I don't understand how or why there would be any time or space wasted with renderings.

Shooting flat takes all of 2 minutes in post to add contrast and saturation back into it.

However, 'Grading' has become a fad where people with $200 monitors think that they can grade their DSLR footage like the Pro's do with film and R3D. I agree with others that we just don't have time for some projects to tweak color in post. Some of my broadcast work must be 100% legal and ready to air right out of the camera; so, I have a PP for that.