Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Just noticed that B&H as well.

Built-in Filters Clear, 1/4 ND, 1/16 ND, 1/64 ND

Does anyone know if I can hookup a HD or any unit to record at sametime for backup purposes?

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

I wonder how they're accessed? I don't see and ND switch anywhere on the photos that have been published. Maybe something to do with the exposure wheel?

Sony UK spec doesn't show NDs: Sony : PMW-100 (PMW100) : Technical Specifications : United Kingdom

CVP in the UK are also similarly quiet: Sony PMW-100 (PMW100) Full HD CMOS Sensor Solid State Camcorder with 4:2:2 50Mb/s recording onto SxS media
As are Proav: Sony PMW-100 XDCAM HD422 Camcorder

Odd! I wonder what's going on?

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

It's very odd because when I originally checked on B&H I don't remember seeing ND filters listed and the guy who did the video review didn't find any either.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

If it doesn't have ND filters built in then how do you take it seriously as a camera?

Richard

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Yes. Look at the outputs and find one that matches your recording device. There's Express32 hard disks that work in the EX1R and may work in the PMW-100. Then there are any number of HDMI and SDI recorders. All that of course if you are using inexpensive media. The PMW-100 supports SxS which is the most reliable memory you can buy. Yes it's more expensive. For a reason. Price out those recording options you want because you want to use cheap memory and then compare it to SxS.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

I am interested in this cam, looks like some decent specs for $3500. Can anyone tell me, from reading the specs, what kind of quality to expect - compared to other cameras currently on the market? Especially what to expect as far as DOF. I currently have an fx1, and would like to improve the overall image quality.

Also, looks like B&H just delayed release to 6/10/12. I wonder what changes they may be making? Adding the ND filters like discussed in this thread? Anyone have any moreinfo on this cam?

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Will this be a good camera for weddings?

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Some test video I shot last weekend with the PMW-100. Very nice camera.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Frankly the image quality is no better than the NX30 in my opinion, a little better than an FX1 but not massive. There is a lot of blocky noise and latitude is pretty poor by todays standards . I don't think the PMW-100 is one of Sony's best. It's pretty power hungry due to the codec and express card drivers and as a result runs pretty warm and is covered in air vents top and bottom The rear viewfinder is like something off a $100 chinese toy camera as is the scroll wheel for the menus. I would buy almost any of Sony's NXCAM's or a used EX1 over the PMW-100. This camera comes from the Atsugi factory where they normally make higher end cameras like the EX1, F3 or F65. I think this first "low cost" camera from Atsugi shows their lack of experience in this sector. The Sony Shinagawa factory normally makes the lower cost cameras (NXCAM, NEX) and they are much better at making a cheaper product without making it feel cheap.

It does appear to have an automatic ND filter of sorts. I have been told that it's built in to the iris mechanism so as you stop down the iris a tiny ND filter comes into place to prevent diffraction effects at small apertures. You have no control over it, so it won't help you control DoF etc. It really needs it to deal with the limited dynamic range. Also note that you can't use any of the 3rd party batteries that use a flying lead on the PMW-100 as the DC connector is inside the battery compartment.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Alister, I completely agree with some of your comments, such as the viewfinder being one of the worst I've ever seen, but overall I think it's a pretty nice camera for the price. You get pretty much every bell & whistle of the other XDCAM offerings -- plus a few extras that they don't have. It's a PMW-500 crunched to the size of a Z5. You get timelapse, slow-mo, picture cache, hyper gammas, nightshot, multi-matrix, custom clip naming, XDCAM Browser workflow, planning metadata, two zebras, 52 format choices including several 50Mbps 4:2:2 codecs, XQD card compatibility, camera data files, slow shutter, four channels of 24-bit audio, full manual exposure control, HDSDI and HDMI, timecode, genlock, etc.
It even comes with a battery and charger -- all for under $4K. That's pretty good.

Is the picture quality as good an EX1R? No, but it's smaller, lighter, less costly, and does things the EX1R can't. Everything is a trade off. I think the picture quality (you can't judge by Vimeo) is a lot better than you give it credit for. I can tell you that there is no way I'd trade it for any of the NXCAMs, except for maybe the FS100. Having the XDCAM workflow is a big deal to me.

I have not noticed any heat build-up. Power consumption is no worse than any other EX camera. And I only use Sony batteries so the DC connector placement is not an issue for me.

Obviously it's pretty much impossible to get shallow DoF on an interview or something like that, but then again, that's not what this camera is designed to do. Overall I think it is a great little "B" camera for any of the other XDCAMs or an "A" camera for someone looking to step up to a camera chock full of professional features.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

I agree that it does have the full compliment of XDCAM features and the 4:2:2 50Mb/s codec. I do perhaps see why a broadcaster with a bunch of PMW-500's may use the PMW100 to get the same codec, but the irony is that the EX1 or EX3 with the 35Mb/s codec produces a far better image that would be a much closer match to the PMW-500 than the PMW100.
For a moden camcorder the size of the PMW100 to eat through relatively expensive, high capacity batteries as it does, would possibly be quite a shock for someone coming from an NXCAM where the low cost standard battery lasts for 6 hours or more. This is a next generation, compact, single chip camera, much smaller than an EX1, yet it get's through batteries just as fast, if not faster.

The PMW100 was obviously designed to hit a price point and specific market niche. It does this at the expense of quality IMHO. When I tested the NX30, PMW100 and FS700 together I was impressed by both the NX30 and FS700 and really disappointed by the PMW100. I don't think the image quality is worth $4k, what's the point of having Hypergamma when the sensor doesn't have enough dynamic range to take advantage of it. What point is there making bigger files with this great codec when the imager can't take advantage of it? Sorry, single chip sensors have improved dramatically recently, but this one appears to come from an earlier generation.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Hey Doug,
Thanks for posting footage. I am still trying to decide what cam to get (still shoot on fx-1). I have a budget of about 5K, which would include the cam plus extra batteries and recording card. Maybe you or someone else can answer a couple more questions:

1. Can you post some of the "Night Footage" shot with the PMW-100?
2. Since I have the fx-1, I have a bunch of NP-F970 batteries. Would these work with the PMW-100? (Trying to add up costs, and this could save me some cash if they work).
3. What kind of card did you use to record the posted footage? And what exact recording settings on the cam? This is all new to me since I simply shoot on tape now, and capture to Premiere as an AVI file.
4. What other cameras out there should I maybe be looking at other than the PMW-100? I shoot: home tours, plays, occasional interviews, just a wide variety of things. Do not wanna go DSLR route.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Rick,

To me it looks like the NX5 seems a lot more reasonable to you. It does take your NP-F970's the PMW-100 doesn't. It offers an uncompressed HD-SDI output so if you find out 50 Mbit is a must-have for you there is always the option of an external recorder. Besides that, the NX5 seems allround a lot better camera than the PMW-100. 3 instead of 1 sensor makes a difference in contrast, colours and lowlight capabillities. The two additional sensors do make sense in my opinion. If I would be in your situation the NX5 would be my bet....

Gabor

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Rick,
Gabor makes a good case for the NX5, but fails to take into consideration all of the advanced features and workflow advantages that the PMW-100 offers. Please go back and read my first paragraph in post #90 and then compare those features to the NX5. In addition to all of that, the PMW-100 is part of the XDCAM line and shares it's DNA with all of the rest of the XDCAM products -- right up to the $35,000 PDW-F800. If you have not used XDCAM you cannot fully appreciate how much superior it is to all of the tapeless alternatives. XDCAM is the future for professional production. That's why Canon uses it now, JVC, Arri, and others to come.

Sure I wish the PMW-100 had three chips instead of one, but to look at that shortcoming and ignore all the other things it offers is short sighted. It can produce good images and it wouldn't even be available for under $4K it had all the specifications that people wish it had. That's why Sony has dozens of cameras to choose from at many price points.

To answer your questions:

1) Have not shot any night footage yet. And I'm not sure if are you talking about normal footage in low light, or using the special NightShot function?

2) As Gabor says, no they won't work. But the camera comes with a BP-U30 battery and AC adapter/charger. A nice thing about the PMW-100 is that it is a 12v camera.

4) the footage I posted was shot on an SxS card and a XQD card with an adapter. The camera can also use SDHC cards and memory sticks. The settings were 50Mbps 422 24 fps. 1920x1080 for regular footage, and 1280x720 for the slow-mo shots. XDCAM is compatible with all of the NLEs.

5) The next best camera to the PMW-100 is the PMW-EX1R which shares a lot of the same cabablities and functions. You are correct to steer clear of DSLRs. And, based on what you shoot, I would recommend steering clear of the NEX-FS100. You would hate it.

The PMW-100 is a GIGANTIC step up from your FX1 in every single way you want to compare them. Just getting rid of tape will save you tons of work and probably pay for the new camera right there alone.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

I moved from a FX1 to the NX5U and its great. Need to set up the picture profiles though as in stock settings it is not as good as the Sony consumer cameras that I have ( CX700, XR500 and an older SR11). I still use the 970 battery I had for the FX1 and it works just fine. I have the FMU128 which can record for a long time !!!! Not having to deal with tape is wonderful but you really do need to adopt a strict backup routine as there is no tape to fall back on if you delete the files !!! All my cameras are a big improvement from the FX1, the pictures are more detailed and much cleaner from video noise. In fact the NX5U is the one with the most noise CX700 the cleanest even at very high gain. 21db on the CX700 is much cleaner than 12db on the NX5U. The new sensors in the latest consumer cameras are very good.

Ron Evans

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Wow,....Alister, coming from you in particular, this is some pretty damaging testimony regarding the PMW100.

I would have thought it used the same sensor as the NX30 and NX70....how odd.

Also, if Canon can put Sony's 422 codec in a small camera that doesn't eat batteries and get hot, what happened to Sony? How hot can a single small sensor get?

I cant understand the PMW 100 at all. Any way I try to look at it. Is Sony is just selling a bad Handycam with a good codec??

If the NX30 truly outperforms the PMW 100 in image quality,...that just blows my mind that it was allowed to happen.

That 1/2.9 PMW 100 sensor....is it an EXMOR or an EXMOR-R sensor?

CT

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Nice footage, Doug. I still want ND filters. And yes, you'd need to shoot in low light conditions before it's usable as a pro camera.

Richard

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

I didn't say it couldn't shoot in low light, I just said I haven't had any reason to test that yet. The more I use the camera the more I am impressed with it.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

I'm interested in how this camera does indoors. Especially relative to the EX cameras.

If anyone hasn't seen it, Alister recently wrote a nice blog entry on dealing with manufacturer claims of resolution on single sensor cameras vs smaller sensor 3 chip designs:
Single Sensor Cameras: Pixel count is not the same as resolution! | XDCAM-USER.COM

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

I'm posting this from Broadcast Asia where I had a bit more time with another PMW100. My thoughts on the build quality remain the same, but the camera here appears to be producing a better image than the one I tested back in the UK. I'm not seeing the blocky images I saw previously. While the pictures are not up to EX1 or EX3 standards I would say they are much closer to the NX30. I'm starting to suspect there was something up with the other camera I had, or I had it set up wrong. I'm going to shoot some stuff with it tomorrow to compare with the other footage I've shot.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Alister, good to know you are taking another look at it. As I have said all along, it is not up to EX1/3 standards, but it's a pretty nice camera for the money and a good value.

This illustrates why I NEVER comment on a camera until I have had a production model in my hands for a day or two to set it up properly and see what it can do. I think you rushed to judgement on this camera and unfairly damaged it's reputation. I'm glad you are taking another look.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Just returned form Infocomm 2012 in Vegas.

I spoke with the Sony guys there about the PMW 100 (it was not on display)

One of the things that appears odd when comparing the NX30 with the PMW 100 are the sensor types. The NX30 uses the 1/2.88 EXMOR "R" sensor and the PMW 100 uses a (slightly) smaller 1/2.9 EXMOR sensor.

What? Why didn't Sony at lease give the PMW 100 the EXMOR-R (back illuminated) sensor? Instead, they used an older sensor model? And....slightly smaller one at that?

They built the EXMOR-R sensor into the NX30 and it's clearly a superior sensor. (even by Sony's own admission)

What happened with this decision?

CT

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Cliff, good questions. I don't have the answers.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

The PMW 100 has a nice form factor and allot of other neat features.

However, the PMW 100 could be "theoretically" a very dangerous model in Sony's entire lineup. If given too much, the camera could easily eat too deeply into other XDCAM sales numbers. We all know that Sony is EXTREMELY careful and mindful about canalizing it's carefully placed product line. (as it should be)

It is possible that placing an older and smaller EXMOR sensor in the PMW 100 would be enough to keep it from hurting upper Sony models. (like the EX1r and others)

"IF" Alister's tests are correct and the NX30's EXMOR-R sensor is outperforming the PMW 100's smaller and older sensor, than I would certainly say that this happened by Sony design and is no accident.

Think about it. Does Sony "really" want an EXCELLENT performing, small and cheap 422 camera on the market with many great features? From their point of view, that might not be a smart thing to build. (especially because they make so many other models above the PMW 100)

Now,..an excellent NX30 performing offers no threat to Sony's upper market because it's manual control is crippled enough to keep it away from may pros and offers plenty of sales protection to higher models.(The NX30 is great bit is just too small and "fiddly" for real pros)

This is all very, very interesting indeed!

Alister,..I'm dying to see your assessment of three cams that Sony gave you. I would tend to suspect that your initial PMW 100 impressions could possibly be correct....just because of the EXMOR and EXMOR-R sensor types alone!

Just my $.02 on all this...

CT

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Having shot some test footage with the PMW100 here in Singapore I am much happier with the image quality. I have been informed that the original camera I looked at was a very early prototype and the camera here is a "near production" unit with improved firmware. It's not an EX1, but then I never expected that, but it is very much closer to the NX30. Noise is very low for a small single sensor camera. Now it does appear to fit the price point much better. I think this is a camera worth taking a look at for yourself and judging the quality for yourself.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Based on you folks tests, does PMW100's sensor rating close to F10 @ 2000 Lux ?

It will be interesting to see how this stacks up with JVC's GY-HM650.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Just wondering about extra batteries for the PMW-100, would a SWIT S-8U62 fit?

Thanks.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

See post #89: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...ml#post1737951

The 8U62 would fit but according to Alister, wouldn't power the camcorder. Those batteries work for the other EX1/3 cameras because those cameras allow external power and the 8U62 has a tether for that. The battery compartment latch simply holds the battery in place. It's unclear if Sony changed things in the PMW-100. I'm interested in the definitive answer as well but I kinda doubt it.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Thanks Les, I missed that post.

Thank you.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

I'm still trying to decide which camera to purchase. Would like to see some reviews of the PMW-100, but cannot find any. If anyone has a link to a newer review, please post. Also, I noticed B&H has a $500 rebate on the PMW-100, lowering overall price to around $3500. Is it unusual to see a rebate this soon after release? Does this mean anything, like potential issues with the camera?

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

The PMW-100 uses the same power connector as the EX1/EX3, but that connector is buried inside the recessed area where the battery attaches. So there is no way to have an AC adapter connected to the camera while there is also a battery onboard.

And that creates a problem for most 3rd party EX1/3 batteries because thuse a short little dongle cable to feed power to the camera via the AC adapter connector and not through direct pin connections like the genuine Sony batteries. So, if you attach a 3rd party battery to the camera, you can't connect the dongle because the battery is then blocking the camera's connector.

I hope that makes sense.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Hi Rick,
I look forward to seeing some reviews on the PMW-100 as well.
All we can do for now is check out the nice footage posted by Doug Jensen (within this forum), and to view another clip I noticed on youtube.
Here's the link:

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

That link and Doug's clips look good to me.

Thanks.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Magnifique!

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Having spent more time with the PMW-100, I would say that the image quality is very slightly inferior to Sony's really rather amazing NX30. To me it looks like there is a lot of noise reduction going on and this gives the images a slightly smoothed almost glazed over look (you can see it in the video linked above). The lack of noise in the images is surprising given the small sensor size and as a result sensitivity is reasonable, but this is not a camera for me, I think Sony have overdone the noise reduction. Maybe if you are entirely committed to XDCAM HD422 there will be a place for it.

Not only does placing the external power connector inside the battery cavity prevent you from using the current crop of 3rd party batteries but it also stops you from hot swapping a battery by powering the camera externally while you change the battery. I have been told by DynaCore that they believe they will be able to produce a battery that will work with this new design and may end up being a more elegant solution than a flying cable.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

I'm still shocked that Sony gave the NX30- PJ760 - CX760 the EXMOR-R sensor and only mounts a smaller and older sensor in a far more expensive camera with their premium codec.

It's the biggest electronic oxymoron that I have ever seen.

Bizarre.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Those familiar with product development wouldn't find it bizarre. There are always tradeoffs. Some possibilities that come to mind:
1) To get the cost down, below a particular number, a lower cost part is used and justified for any number of reasons like people will buy it whether it has an Exmor-R because it has a lens ring, SxS, 4:2;2 etc
2) The consumer divisions making the other 1/3" single chip products paid more for the chip development so they wield their internal political power and get priority on the fixed supply of chips
3) There is no technical superiority and the engineers win the argument because any Exmor-R superiority is a work of fiction by the marketing people who invented the term and consumers who were convinced it makes a difference.
4) The actress who will demo the NX30 has it in her contract that she will only moonwalk if there's an Exmor-R chip in it so she can act snobby around the stereotyped male camera guy with a camera that has a bigger lens, more knobs, 3 lens rings, SxS and no doubt bigger chips and more of them.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

This may not be the first time Sony have done something bizarre. Just looking at about a dozen or so videos from the Sony's new 1" sensor pocketable still camera DSC-RX100 on YouTube and you'll be amazed. I have no ideas if the units used to film those videos were prototype or true production units but the IQ definitely looks very nice with no noticeable artifacts such as mushiness in fine detailed subjects or the glazed-over looks as Alister Chapman said about the PMW-100's footage. More surprisingly, the color profile as seen from all the YouTube clips looks different from the color from all Sony AVCHD camcorders and still cameras I have used. The skin tones are particularly impressive. IMHO the color looks more pleasing and closer to the color in the Sony FS700's footage I've also seen from the web.

If that's what Sony can do with a US$650 still camera and a hybrid sensor, why can't they do better with their US$3,500 video camera and a video-optimized sensor? So far I've seen only two videos from the PMW-100, one is the above Vimeo video and the other is Doug Jensen's. The compressions may have played a part in my preference for the RX100's IQ over the PMW-100's. The final judgement has to wait until we see the actual footage from production units in about a month's time.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

Sony's Atsugi and Shinagawa factories are now working together as a single unit as opposed to being distinct broadcast and pro video operations.

Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100
 

I understand the trade offs in getting to this camera's price point while offering 50mps / 422 color space and think some of the criticism has been pretty picky,

However if in fact the camera has no built in ND filters that is inexcusable. I am probably going to replace my Venerable Sony V1U's next year and felt like this might be the camera until I saw that.